20 Questions About The Search And Rescue Scenario

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Raven

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NH is finalizing plans for a search and rescue card which when purchased for a small fee would exempt the hiker of being charged in most instances except recklessness. Based on a recent conversation in the thread on said card, I am proposing we come up with "20" questions that aim to get right to the heart of the matter at a rescue scenario. Specifically, the questions should aim to assess such things as preparedness/skill level, decision-making related to the environmental conditions, or anything else you feel is relevant to the point. It may be interesting to do this without using related, existing lists of questions as a basis. Assume the questions would be in addition to a written narrative of the rescue as is done now.

What would you ask? What are the important details that make you think, "what were those idiots thinking?" or "wow, they were actually pretty prepared for that."

I'll start with a basic one and open it up.

How many and which of the 10 essentials (HikeSafe) did the hiker(s) have?

The specifics of which of the ten become important based on the situation.
 
If there are enough responses, I'll copy them into one list in this post:

Questions

How many and which of the 10 essentials (HikeSafe) did the hiker(s) have?
 
I would think there should be a weather question. Since they will have known the actual weather by the time help arrives, I'm not sure how best to ask it. Since Baxter requires only one piece of equipment, it is probably the most important one. It also solves the one guaranteed obstacle every hiker will face when stuck outside for long enough.

Tim
 
I would think there should be a weather question. Since they will have known the actual weather by the time help arrives, I'm not sure how best to ask it. Since Baxter requires only one piece of equipment, it is probably the most important one. It also solves the one guaranteed obstacle every hiker will face when stuck outside for long enough.

Tim

How about:

To what degree was weather a factor in the need for rescue? (From "no factor" to "primary cause" including a few in between)

To what degree was it advisable to hike/proceed with the hike given the weather conditions? (Very inadvisable, somewhat, no factor, etc.)
 
Thanks for starting this post. The 10 essential questions is a good start. I don't bring a knife on almost any hike, but the other ones usually make it. I guess my inclination would be to look at what I personally do before planning a hike:

1.) What resources did you use to plan the hike (AMC WMG Edition: ##, Other Guide Books, Websites, Relying on other people in the party, etc)
Reason for question: Knowing what to expect is important. If you read the guide, you'll have a great idea what to expect on the trail. If you read trail reports, then you'll likely be aware of current trail conditions.
How to score: 1 = No resources used; 2 = At least one; 3 = Two or more

2.) Was this your first time in this specific section of trail?
Reason for question: Experience is important. While asking 'How experienced of a hiker are you' is fairly subjective, if someone has been on a specific trail is a great way to assess if they knew what they were getting into.
How to score: 1 = No; 3= Yes

3.) Did you let other people know about your plans?
Reason for question: If you go missing and people don't know where you were planning to go, it makes the search much more difficult. Perhaps this question only makes sense to ask if there was a search involved?
How to score: 1 = No; 2= n/a; 3 = Yes

4.) What did you do to prepare for the weather?
Reason for question: The forecast is a major part of every hike. Even if weather isn't an obvious factor, checking the forecast and being prepared for the conditions is a great indicator of preparedness. Chance of precip, wind, and temperature should be on everyone's mind while planning a hike.
How to score: 1 = Nothing; 2 = Checked long term forecast/checked regional news station/paper; 3 = Checked local forecast (internet)/radio

5.) What were your bailout options?
Reason for question: Knowing your options (or when to turn around) is important to making it out safely. Comparing a road walk vs extra trail miles; saving miles but adding vertical; taking a longer route down a more gentle trail; taking a short bushwhack to avoid a dangerous crossing, etc.
How to score: 1 = None; 2 = Turn around but too late; 3 = List of bailout options

6.) What is your physical condition relative to the hike demands?
Reason for question: Someone who is out of shape (read as not in good hiking condition) will have a harder time with the terrain. Biting off more than one can chew, getting tired on the way up and then going very slow on the way down, etc. Lots of ways that conditioning plays into a hike turning into a S&R. Everyone has their own limits, but I feel as though most people can reasonable judge the limits of others based on their appearance and behavior after a short bit of rest. Perhaps the best way to think about it is the 'type of fun' they had.
How to score: 1= Clearly exceeded physical limits (type 3 fun); 2 = Pushing their limits (type 2 fun); 3 = Within their limits (type 1 fun)

7.) If injured, did a lack of gear or experience lead to the injury?
Reason for question: Injuries happen. People take a wrong step, a rock slides, etc. Improper footwear is preventable though, an with experience people learn what routes to take in different weather, and what gear to bring
How to score: 1 = Yes (Improper gear directly lead to accident) 2 = Had gear but wasn't using it properly/at all; 3 = No, this was reasonably unavoidable (includes 'dumb' things like 'I tripped over a railroad tie').
 
It seems being without a card is going to cost you money if you are deemed negligent. Who determines negligent. And what degree of negligence do you have to meet before it costs you? There must be a list of negligible offenses. Any determination will be subject to interpretation of the rule. Sounds like a money maker for the legal profession.
 
It seems being without a card is going to cost you money if you are deemed negligent. Who determines negligent. And what degree of negligence do you have to meet before it costs you? There must be a list of negligible offenses. Any determination will be subject to interpretation of the rule. Sounds like a money maker for the legal profession.

This point has been discussed ad nauseum in the various threads on this matter. There is no list and there is no minimum degree of negligence. Fish and Game is not the final arbiter of negligence, only the instigator of a possible legal action attempting to establish it if the state takes the collection matter to court. The bottom line is that courts make determinations all the time on negligence in a host of situations, and the same legal principles will be applied. And you're right, the lawyers will have a field day with it, which is why the state rarely pursues these in court.
 
Thanks for starting this post. The 10 essential questions is a good start. I don't bring a knife on almost any hike, but the other ones usually make it. I guess my inclination would be to look at what I personally do before planning a hike:

1.) What resources did you use to plan the hike (AMC WMG Edition: ##, Other Guide Books, Websites, Relying on other people in the party, etc)
Reason for question: Knowing what to expect is important. If you read the guide, you'll have a great idea what to expect on the trail. If you read trail reports, then you'll likely be aware of current trail conditions.
How to score: 1 = No resources used; 2 = At least one; 3 = Two or more

2.) Was this your first time in this specific section of trail?
Reason for question: Experience is important. While asking 'How experienced of a hiker are you' is fairly subjective, if someone has been on a specific trail is a great way to assess if they knew what they were getting into.
How to score: 1 = No; 3= Yes

3.) Did you let other people know about your plans?
Reason for question: If you go missing and people don't know where you were planning to go, it makes the search much more difficult. Perhaps this question only makes sense to ask if there was a search involved?
How to score: 1 = No; 2= n/a; 3 = Yes

4.) What did you do to prepare for the weather?
Reason for question: The forecast is a major part of every hike. Even if weather isn't an obvious factor, checking the forecast and being prepared for the conditions is a great indicator of preparedness. Chance of precip, wind, and temperature should be on everyone's mind while planning a hike.
How to score: 1 = Nothing; 2 = Checked long term forecast/checked regional news station/paper; 3 = Checked local forecast (internet)/radio

5.) What were your bailout options?
Reason for question: Knowing your options (or when to turn around) is important to making it out safely. Comparing a road walk vs extra trail miles; saving miles but adding vertical; taking a longer route down a more gentle trail; taking a short bushwhack to avoid a dangerous crossing, etc.
How to score: 1 = None; 2 = Turn around but too late; 3 = List of bailout options

6.) What is your physical condition relative to the hike demands?
Reason for question: Someone who is out of shape (read as not in good hiking condition) will have a harder time with the terrain. Biting off more than one can chew, getting tired on the way up and then going very slow on the way down, etc. Lots of ways that conditioning plays into a hike turning into a S&R. Everyone has their own limits, but I feel as though most people can reasonable judge the limits of others based on their appearance and behavior after a short bit of rest. Perhaps the best way to think about it is the 'type of fun' they had.
How to score: 1= Clearly exceeded physical limits (type 3 fun); 2 = Pushing their limits (type 2 fun); 3 = Within their limits (type 1 fun)

7.) If injured, did a lack of gear or experience lead to the injury?
Reason for question: Injuries happen. People take a wrong step, a rock slides, etc. Improper footwear is preventable though, an with experience people learn what routes to take in different weather, and what gear to bring
How to score: 1 = Yes (Improper gear directly lead to accident) 2 = Had gear but wasn't using it properly/at all; 3 = No, this was reasonably unavoidable (includes 'dumb' things like 'I tripped over a railroad tie').


I like most of these but conditioning is relevant to your plans. I'm quite a bit overweight these days but I know I'm not up to a Pemi-loop or one day P-traverse. However, for a guy my size, the legs are used to your average day hike.

The lawyer card is sadly, a decent idea.

I'd want to know what their plans were and what time they had planned on starting Vs. what time they actually started. If they started late, was changing their plans an option. Now I enjoy a beer or two when I meet friends the day before a hike also; but when you plan a five or six o'clock start and have too many that you have a 9:00 or later start, your four hours late. The choir here carries two or three lights. If you planned a sunrise to almost sunset hike & forgot headlamps & then started late & thought, we'll hike faster, that's a poor plan.

Several rescue tales have started, "we got a late start" while not always the case, sometimes it's not hard to see they were up too late the night before. (If you were just stuck in traffic for hours also & got in late & got two hours sleep, you may want to rethink your 25+ mile 6 peak day too)

Footwear can be problematic too, the experienced can wear lighter shoes, kids and beginners usually start in sneakers before realizing they want to hike more & invest better gear. Back in the 90's I saw a family in Teva's & thought they were in trouble high on Camel's Hump. The heavy Germanic (they were from Austria) accent showed they thought Camel's Hump was a trivial hill & in their world, it was. While coming down Big Slide, the kids and I passed a girl (maybe 18-25 but I'm not good guessing anymore) walking up the trail at a good pace, barefoot with Dad who was wearing boots.

If I get caught in the weather but had an internet forecast & weather radio and ignored the clouds all could easily see approaching from the Gulfside trail, should I have a better score than someone who's plan was to run away at the first visible signs of weather but took a longer bailout option & missed the fact that it went through a wilderness area & a bridge had been removed since their one older edition of the WMG was printed? (Hint,, a couple of SAR since the 1990's have occurred in the Dry River drainage and the DRT in the winter by people bailing off the Southern Presidentials, they planned on being on a hard packed wind slab & well packed C-Path, leaving snowshoes in the car. Crampons aren't much good in the Dry River area where few travel in winter) Bailout routes sometimes require different gear than your intended route.

I'd probably go with an Essay test over a 20 question type of format for the quiz. Ask them to write about their plans, what they did the night before, their gear and experience & give them the leeway to show their expertise or show their inexpertise. (that wasn't the first, second or 3rd choice for the opposite of expertise)
 
I think start time would be a useful question tied in with trip planning. Despite a minority of folks who legitimately like late day and evening hiking, many hikers start too late in the day and end up getting stranded in the woods. Even if they do have a headlamp it quite easy especially to a neophyte to get turned around or just plain off trail in the dark.

How about

What was your expected hike time, when did you start hiking and when did you expect to finish?. It could be expanded to include if at any point did you compare the actual time hiked to your itinerary

F&G will also ask the question

How many in hiking party? with a major deduct for solo hiking (Per the F&G press release that opined that hiking solo is inherently negligent) I don't agree with the statement but expect it would be asked.
 
How many in hiking party? with a major deduct for solo hiking (Per the F&G press release that opined that hiking solo is inherently negligent) I don't agree with the statement but expect it would be asked.

Do you have a link to this statement/press release? I couldn't find anything to this affect with a quick search.
 
Do you have a link to this statement/press release? I couldn't find anything to this affect with a quick search.

The insinuation that hiking alone is a-priori negligent is in nearly every F&G rescue report that involves a solo hiker. What's hard to find is an archive of such press releases, since they don't seem to stay around on the website in any organized way. Or maybe my search-foo is broken.

So, by F&G standards, nearly every AT thru-hiker is negligent, since by-and-large, they tend to be "alone".
 
I know it was discussed by myself and others on a prior thread. I expect someone with better search skills could find it. I think it was in regards to a lost/injured possibly off trail winter hiker, but the F&G report made a rather blanket non specific statement that any solo hiking was inherently reckless.
 
2.) Was this your first time in this specific section of trail?
Reason for question: Experience is important. While asking 'How experienced of a hiker are you' is fairly subjective, if someone has been on a specific trail is a great way to assess if they knew what they were getting into.
Two related issues:
Are you familiar with this general area through nearby hikes?
Have you done other hikes of similar difficulty and how recently?

What was your expected hike time, when did you start hiking and when did you expect to finish?. It could be expanded to include if at any point did you compare the actual time hiked to your itinerary
A great question, also add "how would you measure your progress and what was your plan if running slow?"
 
I know it was discussed by myself and others on a prior thread. I expect someone with better search skills could find it. I think it was in regards to a lost/injured possibly off trail winter hiker, but the F&G report made a rather blanket non specific statement that any solo hiking was inherently reckless.

Right, I've seen that debate on VFTT, and I've also seen F&G press releases that sort of vaguely suggest hiking solo may have contributed to the need for certain rescues, but I've never seen any suggestion by F&G that hiking solo is "inherently negligent," and I've never seen solo hiking enter F&G's discussion of the HikeSafe card. I don't want to jump to conclusions; for F&G to suggest that "hiking solo is inherently negligent" is quite profound. So I want to understand if that statement has really been made by F&G.

A reasonable way to incorporate the idea into a questionnaire: was the hiker solo, AND did that fact contribute to the need for rescue? Scoring: only if both answers are "yes" should this be assessed as a point deduction. Example: development of hypothermia leading to poor decision making and execution (wrong trail taken, couldn't get tent set up, etc.). An attentive partner could recognize signs of hypothermia and take steps to reverse the condition before it lead to a foggy mental state, bad decisions, and inability to execute simple tasks. Counter example: solo hiker sprains knee and can't walk out, so he sets up shelter, calls for help and safely awaits rescue. Solo status did not contribute to need for rescue, and no points should be deducted.
 
.

A reasonable way to incorporate the idea into a questionnaire: was the hiker solo, AND did that fact contribute to the need for rescue? Scoring: only if both answers are "yes" should this be assessed as a point deduction.

Yes - this a thousand times. This method should also be applied to the "10 essentials" list, which otherwise is just going to be used as a "gotcha" device in cases where having one or more of the items would have been of no use or have affected the outcome of the situation.
 
Yes - this a thousand times. This method should also be applied to the "10 essentials" list, which otherwise is just going to be used as a "gotcha" device in cases where having one or more of the items would have been of no use or have affected the outcome of the situation.

Heartily agree! I tried to capture that with the "did a lack of gear or experience lead to the injury?" piece. The hiking solo piece is the same to me. If it led to the problem, that's on thing, but it's not automatic. There is a lot of nuance to capture that takes several revisions to nail down.
 
As a formerly avid and now occasional NH hiker, a couple of questions come to mind.

Do out of state hikers, or people on vacation in NH need to get the card or risk rescue costs? Could be a real revenue killer for the family on vacation who wants to take a hike in the woods.
I've read that when this type of proposal has been discussed in other states, people holding other licenses (fishing, hunting, trapping) are exempt as they aren't 'hikers'. Does the NH plan do this; if yes, buying a fishing license makes sense as the money benefits everyone who likes the outdoors, including clean water instead of the grey area of negligence or not.
 
Question number 3, I failed. I just go, hell, I almost never know what I'm hiking until I'm past exit 23. Also, I do not carry maps, just a compass. I have looked at the WM maps enough to get by with just a compass.
 
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