4 Corners (AZ/NM/CO/UT) info?

[dentonfabrics]

We're heading out next week for 7 fun-filled days in the desert - our honeymoon, actually - and want to know if any of you VFTTers have spent time in 4 corners.

We're flying into Albuquerque and heading northwest from there to the Farmington area. We thought that would be a good staging area for what we want to see which is Chaco Canyon, Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, and possibly Canyon de Chelly. (Which is more of a must-see, Chelly or Mesa Verde?)

Any info, especially if someone can recommend a nice place to stay - a lodge or resort is what I have in mind - would be appreciated. Info on shorter hikes, photo opps, trout streams, restaurants, divorce lawyers, would also be appreciated.


thx
bob

 

[sli74]

The Narrows of Paria River Canyon in southern Arizona is a GORGEOUS place to dayhike and get some amazing pictures.

I LOVED Bryce Canyon also.

Actually, you can't go wrong with anything in those areas.
I am of no help with nice lodges cause I camped and slept in the car.
Have fun and Congrats.

sli74

 

[Puck]

Ihave stayed in Bluff Utah. There are rafting oppreations on the San Juan as well as orse back riding. Many take day trips to look for petroglyphs. It places you in stiking distance to many of the places you mentioned.

It is a great area.

 

[kevinmac]

Sedona, AZ is the place to go to if you have some extra travel time. It is stunning...

 

[Kevin Rooney]

We're heading out next week for 7 fun-filled days in the desert - our honeymoon, actually - and want to know if any of you VFTTers have spent time in 4 corners.

We're flying into Albuquerque and heading northwest from there to the Farmington area. We thought that would be a good staging area for what we want to see which is Chaco Canyon, Monument Valley, Mesa Verde, and possibly Canyon de Chelly. (Which is more of a must-see, Chelly or Mesa Verde?)

Any info, especially if someone can recommend a nice place to stay - a lodge or resort is what I have in mind - would be appreciated. Info on shorter hikes, photo opps, trout streams, restaurants, divorce lawyers, would also be appreciated.


thx
bob

(Which is more of a must-see, Chelly or Mesa Verde?) - Mesa Verde by far. Canyon de Chelly has restricted access. It's easy to spend a day or more at Mesa Verde. They (USPS contractor) runs a hotel up there as well. Don't know any more about it than that as I haven't stayed there.

Chaco is an awesome place. I believe it's all/mostly self-guided, and they have lots of free/nearly free handouts to help explain what is known (and not alot is known) about this ancient culture. There's a camping area near the "entrance". I emphasized entrance because it's a long way off a paved highway, which contributes, IMHO, to the experience. I especially liked the way the USPS emphasizes that visitors should respect the cultural and spiritual significance of the area. The Anasazi, or ancient people, had a most advanced civilization. If you climb up the ancient trail to another level and another settlement, at one point you can see an old road that goes north for 40 miles, straight as an arrow. It varies from true north by about a degree. In another ruin on the lower level there's a window in either a 2nd or 3rd story level which is placed at an odd angle. We (white Europeans) figured out the purpose of the window is to mark spring, as the sun only shines through that window on March 21st. Fascinating place.

Monument Valley and the Petrified Forest aren't too far from the 4 Corners either as well as other sights.

Large parts of this area belong to the Navajo, Hopi or Apache peoples. It will become apparent as you drive thru this area that we have not done very well by these people.

 

[jniehof]

I lived in Farmington for five years (just visited last summer). Gorgeous country.

"Nice places to stay" are going to be somewhat limited. You're on the edge of the Reservation and it's a rather poor area, seems to be getting worse with the economy. Bear in mind I lived on the Navajo side of town and very rarely got over to where the white people live. If you want resorts, you should probably base out of either Santa Fe or Durango.

I was just at Mesa Verde last summer. It is a very special, gorgeous place, for the scenery as well as the archaeology. Unfortunately, since all you city types have discovered the Southwest , it's also a very crowded place. US-160 is two-lane blacktop through there, but at the park entrance they built it out as a full divided highway with a cloverleaf for the park. The whole darn place is run by Aramark now (buy something at the museum gift shop; that money actually goes to the park.) If you can stomach the crowds and the commercialism, you can pretty much do the whole park in two days. Get tickets for the first tours of the cliff dwellings, then do the petroglyph hike in the afternoon of one day and Spruce Canyon the next (or mix in the Far View sites...just get through the cliff dwellings while most people are still in bed!) Here's me about to go into the exit tunnel for Balcony House:

Despite my cynicism, I can't imagine not seeing Mesa Verde. Somehow I doubt it'll get less crowded soon; might as well get in while you can. Definitely get to Chaco, too...very different experience.

Other stuff...hop over to Window Rock. It's probably your best bet for getting some exposure to Navajo culture. For the best hiking, you might want to get up into the San Juans, by my book the most beautiful part of Colorado. If you drive up to Molas Pass, you can do day hikes on the Colorado Trail in either direction--east into the Weminuche, or west back towards Durango. Sorry, my best picture features my ugly mug:

Close to Farmington is the Aztec Ruins National Monument, which was pretty awesome as a five year old. It might not be quite as cool as I remember it.

 

[roadtripper]

It's only a 1/3 of a day's drive to Moab, UT or Durango, CO - two of the coolest towns in the Southwest. Both have tons of nearby hiking, breweries, cool places to eat & stay, etc.

Mesa Verde is awesome. A must visit.

Santa Fe is a cool town as well, although a bit out of the way.

Let me know if you want suggestions for Moab, I have a million of them.

 

[Chip]

I was there when I was 12 . My family took 6 weeks to criss cross the US and Canada covering most of the National Parks. Stood on the 4 Corners plaque; there's probably more there now, but it was completely missable then. Mesa Verde I still remember as a high point of the trip, not the most scenic, but about the coolest. you need to be into the ruins.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

... Stood on the 4 Corners plaque; there's probably more there now, but it was completely missable then.

Was there last summer - will now cost you $3 to stand on that spot. Definitely not worth it - it's just a spot on someone's map. Area around it is pretty, though, and a bit unusual.

 

[Jake]

I agree

With many of the other posters, Mesa Verde is well worth the visit.

Durango is a neat town.

You'll also be pretty close to Canyonlands NP, did some really nice day hikes there a few years back. Nice weather this time of year.

 

[Trainwreck]

No recommendations , but CONGRATULATIONS!!!
Please post a trip report when you return.
Have fun.
Sandy

 

[DrewKnight]

12-year-old data but...

My wife and I went on a babymoon (I think that's the technical term -- she was 6 months pregnant with our first child) to NM 12 years ago in, er, March I think. We flew into Albuquerque, but spent no time there, opting instead to head up to Santa Fe and, briefly, Taos. Having heard so much about the area, I honestly expected to fall in love. We didn't, but we did like it a lot.

Here are a few things that stood out for us:

* Santa Fe's Old Town area really is pretty and charming, and well worth an afternoon to wander around.

* Find a local place and go out for breakfast. Order your eggs "Christmas" (e.g. with both red and green chile sauce) for a real local taste.

* Mark Miller's Coyote Cafe in Santa Fe still stands out as one of the best restaurants we've been to. In many ways, he defined what we think of as fine Southwestern cuisine. Check for recent reviews, but I would bet that it is still a great experience.

* The drive from Santa Fe to Taos along the high ridges was amazing. We had a decent rental car, so the driving itself was exhilarating (made all the more so by all the makeshift road-side shrines; apparently drinking and driving is a local pass-time, something you'll want to keep in mind as dark approaches)

* Taos itself is a sleepy little town but interesting enough for a quick visit. We stayed in a local hotel on the square, which was nice for its convenience, but I am sorry that I don't remember the name.

* On the not-so-pleasant (but maybe necessary) experience end of things, I would have to rank the Taos Pueblo itself. We went hoping to glimpse something of modern Native American life (it's a real live reservation with a small but active population), and that's what we saw -- but it didn't make us proud in any way. The poverty was absolutely grinding and depressing, in ways that small rural villages in China and Tibet couldn't match... maybe made all the worse by the contrast of the "Anglo" populations so close by.

Have a great trip and congratulations...

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Was there last summer - will now cost you $3 to stand on that spot. Definitely not worth it - it's just a spot on someone's map. Area around it is pretty, though, and a bit unusual.

I thought that the Four Corners marker and tourist scam when I was there a few years ago was over the top, but my guess is that the $3 fee could be avoided by showing up before or after 'regular hours'? Because I was visiting state tri-points at the time, I thought that a re-visit of our only four-state marker was a must.

Also, check out the bedrock slot canyons a couple of hours to the southwest (north of the eastern end of the Grand Canyon), but not during flash flood season (June-August).

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I thought that the Four Corners marker and tourist scam when I was there a few years ago was over the top, but my guess is that the $3 fee could be avoided by showing up before or after 'regular hours'? Because I was visiting state tri-points at the time, I thought that a re-visit of our only four-state marker was a must.

Thom - when my wife and I were there about 5 years ago I think you could avoid the fee by visiting it after hours, but from my "visual" last year, I think it's now fenced in, and it looks like someone lives there as well. It's rather disappointing - the sign is one of those "OK, here's a sheet of plywood, a bucket of red paint, and you've got 20 minutes before supper to get it done" sort of endeavors. Who knows? Maybe a gust of wind blew down the regular sign and the one I saw was temporary.

Maybe if bob visits it on his trip he can give us an update as to whether he thinks it's a worthwhile destination.

 

[Snowflea]

Canyon de Chelly vs. Mesa Verde

I'll be the oddball and say, for the overall experience, I liked Canyon de Chelly more. It was one of--if not THE--most beautiful places I've ever been, maybe tying with Zion Ntl. Park after a dusting of fresh snow.

It was fun to drive around to all the overlooks and try to spot the cliff dwellings. (Bring binoculars!) There is one trail, the White House Trail, on which you can hike into the canyon without a guide. For the others you will need to hire a Navajo guide. There was hardly anyone else there in late October. We stayed in a funky campground on the south rim, but there are motels in Chinle.

Ditto what Kevin said about being on reservation land; just be prepared for that...

Mesa Verde was wonderful, too, if not a bit crowded but should be less so this time of year. If memory is correct, you need to go on a ranger-guided tour in order to go into the cliff dwellings. The proximity to Durango is certainly appealing. And if you get homesick and need a snow fix, you can always drive up to Purgatory or Silverton.

I didn't get too excited about Petrified Forest/Painted Desert, but the sunset there was spectacular...

 

[BorealChickadee]

Mesa Verde over Canyon deChelly
but...
Chaco tops all hands down. It's magical. Take the time to read up on the area so you understand what you're experiencing.

We stayed in the NPS motel in Mesa Verde. Nothing special but it was close. Terrible overpriced cafeteria food. Oh well, as I say it was as close as you can get.

I've been to Chaco three times and it's not enough.

On the way out of Alb. you can stop at the petroglyphs just west of the city and Acoma pueblo west on the interstate.

Very worth it is the little bird plateau, Parajito something ( oh gosh, someone save me here I took Russian, not Spanish) on the way to Bandelier National Monument. I'll have to think about that and edit this later. There's another walk there that is just awesome on the way to Bandelier. I liked it better than Bandelier.

Four Corners was a disappointment.

Best eating in Santa Fe is Bumblebees. Cheap and absolutely delicious. Drive up window, huge bowls of homemade sauces and food to die for. Coyote Cafe is a sight, but way too expensive. Three trips to Sante Fe and I'd take Bumblebees over all else. The street with all the sculptures is worth an evening walk. Walking around town is a nice way to spend the day. It's one of the few towns I don't mind being stuck in.

 

[dentonfabrics]

Great info guys, keep it coming; my future ex-wife and I thank you all! Taking the advice of a couple of people here, I found a place on the web in Durango that looks nice so I made reservations there instead of Farmington. And since most people agree that Mesa Verde > Canyon de Chelly, we'll be spending much of our time at Mesa Verde.

I always avoid tourist traps like the 4 corners monument so I wont be able to update you guys on that. And to DrewKnight, you're the 3rd person to warn me about drunk drivers out there! I'm definately planning on being off the roads by the time happy hour is over. Thanks again....


bob

 

[Kevin Rooney]

On lodging - I've also stayed in Cortez, CO a couple of times. Nothing outstanding per se, but reasonable motels and places to eat, and in the midst of beautiful country.

 

[skypix]

4-corners

ABQ to motel in Santa Fe, <1> Museum of Indian Arts and Culture, to motel near Los Alamos.
<2>Bandelier National Monument, Hike Frijoles Canyon to the Rio Grande, rt 4(& 126 if not too snowy) to motel in Cuba.
<3>Chaco Culture, camp there or motel on ugly Bloomfield-Shiprock rt 64. <4>rt 33 through the Southern "Wing" of The Shiprock, rt 13 up and over the Chuska Mtns to Canyon de Chelly, free campground or unfree motel, hike to White House.
<5>Rt 191/163 to Mexican Hat motel at bridge over the San Juan, tour Valley of the Gods.
<6>Rt 261 up the Moqui Dugway !! onto Cedar Mesa, Seven Kivas and The Citadel in Road Canyon @N37.39 W109.81, camp anywhere it's BLM land. <7>Sipapu Bridge @ Natural Bridges National Monument, rt 95 through Comb Ridge to motel in Blanding.
<8> Edge Of Cedars Museum in Blanding and zoom to Mesa Verde is mostly reconstructed but won't be crowded in Feb/Mar, road up to the top of the Mesa might be a challenge.
<9> Back to ABQ. You'll have to change your flight, you stayed too long.

You missed The Wave, Elk Ridge behind the Bear's Ears, Escalante Staircase,and the Skutumpah Road as well as the big National Parks.
That's for next time.

Read anything by Craig Childs especially House of Rain;
Canyon Tales http://tiny.cc/CKlVG

On second thought... It's your honeymoon, stay in a motel in Page and see if you can get a permit for The Wave-go to the Pariah ranger station each morning at 8, then back to the motel.
Don

 

[roadtripper]

On second thought... It's your honeymoon, stay in a motel in Page and see if you can get a permit for The Wave-go to the Pariah ranger station each morning at 8, then back to the motel.
Don

Excellent idea! You might have to go 2-3 mornings in a row, but this is one of the coolest nature features on EARTH.

Also - it's expensive, and I'm not sure if it's even open this time of the year, but nearby Antelope Canyon is incredible too. You'll need to make reservations for this.

Also be sure to check out Horseshoe Bend just south of Page. Absolutely gorgeous vista of the Colorado River only about 0.5 mile from the road.