50 Most Prominent. 100 Most Prominent? 200 Most Prominent??

[dr_wu002]

Anyone that knows me well enough knows that I probably won't ever complete the NH48, sometimes deliberately miss summits so I can say "No, I never did that one," refuse to sign or sometimes put false names in cannisters and so on. And now that I've stopped my psych meds, things will probably get worse. But, they also know that I have an enormous soft spot for the Prominence lists. Perhaps it's the scientist or the logician in me that prefers the rigidity of prominence to the arbitrary 200' col rules that lets hideous and insignificant turds like Galehead on the list and so on. But the reason I like this list is because I love New England (actually, the entire North East) and I've always felt that working on the Prominence list forces you to take your focus away from just The Whites or Vermont or just 4k's in general (34 / 50 mountains on the list are <4k) and to look at New England (or the Northeast, depending on which version of the list you're using) as a whole. To me it's also not as much of a monstrosity as say the 3k list is (in my eyes) with the usual 200' col requirement that bugs me so much. Hey, I say focus on prominence, do the other bumps at yer leisure.

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a "100 Finest" or even "200 Finest" list? I started to but I think I abandoned the idea or at least my computer crashed and I lost my data. I'm thinking of compiling a "100 Finest" for New England (although I'm sure it's been done) so if anyone wants to talk about it, has any suggestions, or general hate messages, leave 'em here or in a PM.

A "48 Finest in NH" list would be interesting. It would look different than the usual NH48.

Now, I have like freakin' 15 / 50 on the 50 Finest List so don't anyone go around and think that I'm actually capable of finishing it. It's just something to work on, I guess.

Some Links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Fifty_Finest
http://www.peakbagger.com/list.aspx?lid=41407

-Dr. Wu

 

[DougPaul]

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a "100 Finest" or even "200 Finest" list?

I have a "1 Finest" list. Whatever peak I happen to be standing on at the moment...

Unfortunately limited to molehills (and drive-ups) for a while...

Doug

 

[dr_wu002]

I have a "1 Finest" list. Whatever peak I happen to be standing on at the moment...

Unfortunately limited to molehills (and drive-ups) for a while...

Doug

I used to have a list like that too. I lost it in my computer crash.

Yeah, how many times have I uttered, "This is the coolest peak that I've ever been on..." or "Best hike of the year!"

And, oh, did you chose this thread to be your first "Non-Technical" post of the year!? I thought you were an engineer. What'd you quit?

-Dr. Wu

 

[JohnL]

I would have a difficult time categorizing mountains as either fine or not fine. To me it is not so much the mountain itself that may be fine but the overall experience of climbing the peak; the choice of trail, the weather conditions, the time of year, the lighting, the companions or lack thereof, the foliage, the views, the wildlife and so on.

For instance, hiking up East Osceola from the Main Peak on a hot and very hazy day in July is not quite the same experience as climbing up the steep section of the Osceola Trail from Greeley Ponds on a frigid clear day in January with a foot of virgin snow in front of you. In the former example, East Osceola is not so fine and in the latter it is pretty darn fine.

I’m not even sure how fineness relates to prominence. IMHO, the whole idea of prominence is a bit, well, silly. For instance, the prominence of Denali is measured from a low point in Nicaragua and Chomolungma’s prominence is measured from the seashore somewhere on the Bay of Bengal. I’m desperately grasping for some kind of significance to the concept of prominence but it seems like an activity for bored cartographers who were on an extended tea break.

However, I don’t mean to demean your concept of a Finest list. I actually like it. It does mean, however, that your list will be different from mine which will be different from Mr X’s since the concept of “fine” is subjective. Unless of course you can quantify it somehow into numbers. You know, like, Mt Hale via Fire Warden’s Trail(IV 5.3 A6).

Perhaps I’ll take a stab at my list and see what I come up with.

JohnL

 

[dr_wu002]

I would have a difficult time categorizing mountains as either fine or not fine. To me it is not so much the mountain itself that may be fine but the overall experience of climbing the peak; the choice of trail, the weather conditions, the time of year, the lighting, the companions or lack thereof, the foliage, the views, the wildlife and so on.

For instance, hiking up East Osceola from the Main Peak on a hot and very hazy day in July is not quite the same experience as climbing up the steep section of the Osceola Trail from Greeley Ponds on a frigid clear day in January with a foot of virgin snow in front of you. In the former example, East Osceola is not so fine and in the latter it is pretty darn fine.

The use of "Finest" is someone else's convention and not mine. I would much prefer "50 most prominent..." but I just figured that I'd stick with convention but I wasn't making any judgment really. Adams is certainly fine and it's not on the list and so if Bondcliff.

East Osceola is awesome! Just because it's not on the list doesn't mean don't do it. As I said, the list is for what it is. Do the other bumps as well. I'm not the type of person to focus on a list anyway because I'm one of those people that likes to do whatever I want, whenever I want and however I want and I hate being restricted by anyone or anything. I suggested the list because to me, it actually looks cool. Considering I'm like 15 or 20 out of 50 is a good indicator that I'm not working on it so hard.

I don't think that Prominence is a silly concept though. It indicates if something is a large, stand-alone bump. Greylock is 3500' but has 2500' of prominence and stands out on the horizon. Galehead is 4000' but has 200' of prominence and is a turd that you have to squint at just to see from various view points. I mean, Galehead and Greylock might be equally beautiful and enjoyable hikes for sure -- prominence just assigns a concept to both of them. Also, in terms of say, The Whites, prominence will identify what is really the "parent" ridge or mountain. But do all the bumps if ya got the time!

-Dr. Wu

 

[HockeyPuck]

I had a similar thought while standing on Mt Hight last weekend. It's one of my favorite places in the whites and deserves more prestige than 'the bump next to Carter Dome'..

Hight is high on my list of finest peaks.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Anyway, has anyone ever come up with a "100 Finest" or even "200 Finest" list? I started to but I think I abandoned the idea or at least my computer crashed and I lost my data. I'm thinking of compiling a "100 Finest" for New England (although I'm sure it's been done) so if anyone wants to talk about it, has any suggestions, or general hate messages, leave 'em here or in a PM.

I am willing to bet that Roy S has such a list And not merely compiled it, but climbed them all.

 

[dr_wu002]

I had a similar thought while standing on Mt Hight last weekend. It's one of my favorite places in the whites and deserves more prestige than 'the bump next to Carter Dome'..

Hight is high on my list of finest peaks.

Finest is a bad word. I'm going to never use "finest" again.

Mt. Hight is nice but "nice" is subjective. Some people hate bald summits. Prominence is less subjective. That doesn't mean that I'm inclined to skip Mt. Hight or something like that. I abhor lists, in general, especially the NH48 (arbitrary 200' col rule keeps Hight off that one) and the only reason I like the 50 Prominence one is because it gives a large overview of all of New England. It's not like I'm going to finish that list and then drink a hemlock cocktail because I feel like my life is complete. It's a freakin' list. I hike whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever (legally) I want and for whatever arbitrary reasons I want for the most part.

-Dr. Wu

 

[albee]

To clarify - the 50 "Finest" in this case is the 50 "Most Prominent"... please see the link to the Wikipedia explanation because it is much more definitive than anything I could ever come up with.

Some people could argue for days which peak is nicer than another, but this thread is about the scientifically measured classification.

JohnL - I think you're confusing prominence with isolation. Isolation is a measurement of distance to the col with a peak's nearest higher neighbor. One could theoretically work on the list of most isolated peaks, but it would help to have lots of gas money or your own private jet to accomplish this.

 

[dr_wu002]

C'mon people, when I said "finest" I was just using convention. Do you honestly think I'm going to tell people not to do Bondcliff or Gothics or Adams because it's not on this list? This is a list of prominence... I'm not assigning judgment on anything.

I'm thinking perhaps of making a 25 Prominence list for the North East States instead of 1 definitive list.

-Dr. Wu

 

[DougPaul]

I used to have a list like that too. I lost it in my computer crash.

Yeah, how many times have I uttered, "This is the coolest peak that I've ever been on..." or "Best hike of the year!"

I simply prefer to enjoy wherever I am and not worry about which list it might be on. Sometimes I enjoy repeating a nice hike/peak, sometimes a new one. Introducing a beginner to an old favorite can also be very nice...

And, oh, did you chose this thread to be your first "Non-Technical" post of the year!? I thought you were an engineer. What'd you quit?

Its late in the year--I must have made an earlier non-technical post somewhere...


BTW, the word "finest" also generally implies an opinion, just as "nicest" does.

Doug

 

[dr_wu002]

I simply prefer to enjoy wherever I am and not worry about which list it might be on. Sometimes I enjoy repeating a nice hike/peak, sometimes a new one. Introducing a beginner to an old favorite can also be very nice...


Its late in the year--I must have made an earlier non-technical post somewhere...

Doug

Doug, I feel the same way. The Prominence list is SIMPLY a way to get a broad perspective on New England as a whole. When I look at it, I'm like, "What mountain is that? I've never heard of that!" For me it's simply a way to avoid limiting myself to one area such as the Whites and to help me discover new and interesting things. I'll never finish it and I won't even use it as a "list" per say. I hate lists, remember.

BTW, the word "finest" also generally implies an opinion, just as "nicest" does.

That's why I said that I hate that word. Prominence is better.

-Dr. Wu

 

[David Metsky]

That's why I said that I hate that word. Prominence is better.

Then you shouldn't have used it. I've fixed up the title for you.

 

[DougPaul]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention the time I hiked up Mt Hight on a bluebird winter day with a friend who had blasted through the area in low visibility while bagging his 4Ks. We spent an hour on Mt Hight and didn't even bother going over to Carter Dome... (happy smile as opposed to humor)

Doug
Not much of a lister...

 

[dr_wu002]

Then you shouldn't have used it. I've fixed up the title for you.

Thanks, Dave. But I used it because it's already an established list called, "Fifty Finest" and I was wondering if there existed an extension of that called, "One Hundred Finest." But if I had named it in the first place I wouldn't have used "Finest" at all. I've never even used that word in my entire life. The word fine should be reserved for people that moon the cog!

-Dr. Wu

 

[skiguy]

Say Wu I know how much you hate Lists but if you are going to do one (LIST) I would agree that this is a good one to do. First of all quite attainable for the goal oriented but also what you are saying about giving you a good lay for the land in the NE in General is pretty cool. When you look at the MAP of the Peaks they are nicely scattered around. By doing these peaks one would certainly land up going places that you might not otherwise go to but it would certainly give one a nice taste of all the major hiking regions of the NE. Great List and very definitive. It's also nice that they are of all different elevations; even some sub 3000 footers.

 

[JohnL]

I think you're confusing prominence with isolation. Isolation is a measurement of distance to the col with a peak's nearest higher neighbor. QUOTE]

It may appear that I’m confused when I am merely keenly crystal clear on the concept of prominence. To give a precise example, Denali’s prominence is measured from the low point of a col (in Nicaragua) between it and it’s next highest neighbor, Aconcagua, which is a mere umpteen thousand miles away. Now, speaking for the climber on Denali, what significance, if any, does this prominence play to the climber when neither the point from which the prominence is measured nor the next highest point can be hit with an ICBM, let alone be seen or felt? At least by measuring mountains from a static reference point (sea level) you can ascertain certain atmospheric conditions with mountains with the same numeric height so you can make a comparison. Prominence, as I stated, is IMHO merely an exercise in cartographic mathematics with no apparent useful purpose. Think about this; Mt Cabot has more prominence than Lohtse. Now there’s something every mountaineer needs to know know.

JohnL

 

[albee]

It may appear that I’m confused when I am merely keenly crystal clear on the concept of prominence.

I see your point now. I agree that in such extreme examples as the highest peaks in the world, prominence is an esoteric concept. But when applied to smaller geographic regions like New England it is actually much more of a tangible concept.

You had me confused when you brought up how far each peak was from another. This factor is typically part of the equation in isolation, and not involved in measuring prominence. There is probably more prominence in the col between Washington and Carter Dome than there is in the state high points of Ohio and Kansas.

My deepest apologies.

 

[injektilo]

Since people are debating prominence, a discussion on Reduced Spire may be of some interest.

edit: The links in the old thread above don't seem to work anymore. Perhaps someone saved a copy of the map and/or list that was being discussed.

 

[dr_wu002]

I see your point now. I agree that in such extreme examples as the highest peaks in the world, prominence is an esoteric concept. But when applied to smaller geographic regions like New England it is actually much more of a tangible concept.

You had me confused when you brought up how far each peak was from another. This factor is typically part of the equation in isolation, and not involved in measuring prominence. There is probably more prominence in the col between Washington and Carter Dome than there is in the state high points of Ohio and Kansas.

My deepest apologies.

Hey, prominence gets kind of weird. It pretty esoteric for Mt. Washington's prominence. It's key col is basically in a swamp somewhere in the Hudson River Valley. Mt. Marcy's Key Col is in the Erie Canal. One could assume (I know) that the high point in a region is the most prominent peak of that region. But I'll let a computer or someone with more time on their hands find the exact col between Washington and Potato Cob (or whatever it's nearest, highest neighbor is).

-Dr. Wu