Gris
New member
This issue has likely been argued to death here and elsewhere. I'm not wanting to start a debate. I just want to know what is the actual rule/wording of any applicable rule re "off -trail" travel in the WMNF? Thanks. 
A Dumb Question
- Thread starter Gris
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Gris
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So there are no published rules re off-trail travel in WMNF? Anyone can go anywhere at anytime? Trails are merely for convenience and serve no conservation purpose...?
BrentD22
New member
Wmnf...
The forest is public property. They can only limit travel in areas that are dangerous or overused. Bushwacking in general does not cause over use because every "bushwacker" chooses his/her own path. There are however rules regarding where you can and can't camp (near Roads, huts, tent sites, ect.).
Regarding the SAR fees that would be charged to someone that is bushwacking without experiance and/or proper gear assuming they would find you if you needed rescue off trail is another issue.
Also take note that there is private property around the mountains. Travel in those areas is per the owners permission. Most owners allow travel on marked trails ect.
The forest is public property. They can only limit travel in areas that are dangerous or overused. Bushwacking in general does not cause over use because every "bushwacker" chooses his/her own path. There are however rules regarding where you can and can't camp (near Roads, huts, tent sites, ect.).
Regarding the SAR fees that would be charged to someone that is bushwacking without experiance and/or proper gear assuming they would find you if you needed rescue off trail is another issue.
Also take note that there is private property around the mountains. Travel in those areas is per the owners permission. Most owners allow travel on marked trails ect.
Gris
New member
Thank you.
darren
Poobah Emeritus
Rule #1: Marche sur la roche.
At least that is what I remember from 7th grade French class.
- darren
ps: what I am trying to say is that I do not know of any hardline "rules" about travel above treeline. It is obvious that you should stay on the trails and if you really find the need to go off the trails that you should stay on the rocks, BUT I am not aware of any "rules" (it would actually have to be a law I guess) that says you can't. Meaning, I do not think a ranger can write you a ticket for stomping on alpine vegetation even though we all know it is wrong.
As for in the woods, anything goes. Since I don't know about any rules above treeline, I certainly don't know about any rules below treeline. If you stay off private property, then you are pretty much good to go. Do as you see fit. (usualy rules apply, ie: distance from trails, road, water etc for camping; wilderness rules apply in wilderness areas (duh).)
At least that is what I remember from 7th grade French class.
- darren
ps: what I am trying to say is that I do not know of any hardline "rules" about travel above treeline. It is obvious that you should stay on the trails and if you really find the need to go off the trails that you should stay on the rocks, BUT I am not aware of any "rules" (it would actually have to be a law I guess) that says you can't. Meaning, I do not think a ranger can write you a ticket for stomping on alpine vegetation even though we all know it is wrong.
As for in the woods, anything goes. Since I don't know about any rules above treeline, I certainly don't know about any rules below treeline. If you stay off private property, then you are pretty much good to go. Do as you see fit. (usualy rules apply, ie: distance from trails, road, water etc for camping; wilderness rules apply in wilderness areas (duh).)
Raymond
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... don't cut trails, don't pick up artifacts... or trash...
forestgnome
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It's not at all a dumb question, considering all the conflicting thoughts.
My understanding is to stay in the trailbed when using a trail. Don't step outside the trailbed; don't hike next to the trail and widen it. If you hike off-trail, be gentle with your steps until you're well away from the trail.
Same goes for the alpine zone, except up there step only on bare rocks. If you can't step exclusively on bare rock, go back! Even when you're in the trailbed, avoid stepping on plants. There's cinquefoil and mountain daiseys, etc., in the trailbed, but they should still be spared.
Whatever zone you're hiking, when you see an obstruction in the trail, remove it if possible. Little herd paths around the obstruction quickly cause damage, and that could be avoided if someone cared enough to remove the obstruction.
IMHO, everything is fine as is. If we sufficiently govern ourselves, we won't need to be governed.
My understanding is to stay in the trailbed when using a trail. Don't step outside the trailbed; don't hike next to the trail and widen it. If you hike off-trail, be gentle with your steps until you're well away from the trail.
Same goes for the alpine zone, except up there step only on bare rocks. If you can't step exclusively on bare rock, go back! Even when you're in the trailbed, avoid stepping on plants. There's cinquefoil and mountain daiseys, etc., in the trailbed, but they should still be spared.
Whatever zone you're hiking, when you see an obstruction in the trail, remove it if possible. Little herd paths around the obstruction quickly cause damage, and that could be avoided if someone cared enough to remove the obstruction.
IMHO, everything is fine as is. If we sufficiently govern ourselves, we won't need to be governed.
dr_wu002
Well-known member
You raise a good point about trail erosion but is this an official rule or a guideline? I wholly agree... respect the woods you're in. But hell, why not just respect everything? I treat a crummy city like Boston with respect... I don't litter and try to be civic minded. It's all about attitude (I'm not perfect either mind you, in the city or in the wilderness, I'm sure I've been guilty of minor infractions, hopefully not major though!).forestnome said:
Sorry to stray into a bit of a rant. But, again, what are the rules for the Forest and what are the guidelines. I think there's a distinction.
-Dr. Wu
Gris
New member
Precisely my point. I am quite aware of all the "ethical guidelines" referenced by everyone (but I appreciate and thank you nonetheless). My question is simply are there any regulations (which ARE law). Because I could not find any (except for camping) when I perused the WMNF website. And I was stunned not to at least find a regulation dealing with alpine vegetation.
spencer
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Here are the official White Mountain Backcountry rules that often get posted here.
the "Travel and Camp on Durable Surfaces" clause seems to cover staying on trails, although it is written as a suggestion and not as a hard and fast regulation, so it's still unclear. I linked to this page a week or so ago about camping on durable surfaces. It is more clear that camping where the least amount of impact will occur is best (whether it be an already heavily impacted site or a fresh site where your trace won't be seen or felt by others). The in-between somewhat-impacted stuff is where the problem lies.
I would transfer that same mentality to trails vs. off trail. herd paths => messy trails while straight-up bushwhacking leads to a different way to the summit every time.
my $.02
spencer
the "Travel and Camp on Durable Surfaces" clause seems to cover staying on trails, although it is written as a suggestion and not as a hard and fast regulation, so it's still unclear. I linked to this page a week or so ago about camping on durable surfaces. It is more clear that camping where the least amount of impact will occur is best (whether it be an already heavily impacted site or a fresh site where your trace won't be seen or felt by others). The in-between somewhat-impacted stuff is where the problem lies.
I would transfer that same mentality to trails vs. off trail. herd paths => messy trails while straight-up bushwhacking leads to a different way to the summit every time.
my $.02
spencer
Gris
New member
Yes Spence, I read that page before posting my original Q. In fact, the instruction contained therein to "stay on the trail while hiking" is what got me wondering whether there were other more detailed regs somewhere else. It just doesn't make sense to me (but then I am not trained in forestry or conservation) for people to "bushwhack" to a peak that already has a trail to it. Seems like erosion and irreversible damage would increase exponentially with the degree of slope. I like to walk "in" the woods myself, but my own personal ethic would not allow me to scramble up a hill when there was a trail to that peak handy...
spencer
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Sorry, maybe I didn't read the post carefully enough. I wasn't sure if you had seen that page.
I usually bushwhack to places that don't have trails. But there is sometimes the appeal of seeing new territory along the way to a place you already love...
spencer
I usually bushwhack to places that don't have trails. But there is sometimes the appeal of seeing new territory along the way to a place you already love...
spencer
Gris
New member
No need to apologize, I gave no indication I had seen it. BTW - I am all for whacking. I just don't see the postive cost-benefit of whacking up a slope when there is a trail nearby. Maybe I am wrong. It just seems intuitive that steeper slopes erode much easier/faster. I suppose the real issue is whether people view it as just one person's negligible impact or, alternatively, consider it as possibly leading to a cumulative impact...
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AMF
New member
Just to add a little tidbit to this pile, I recently found a rule from the NPS web site for the Great Smoky Mtn NP that off-trail travel of any sort was verboten, & to be honest found it surprising. So much for instilling a sense of exploration & wonder in the 'utes of today. I think the FS would have trouble enforcing a statute to that effect, unless there was a specific resource protection issue at hand, insofar as cows are allowed freedom to wander in many forests.
Mike P.
Well-known member
So no bushwhacking in that National Park, I wonder if that is true of others? After driving in the congestion that is Gatlinburg & Pigeon Forge, I'll never complain about that ghost town in NH also known as North Conway, NC is deserted in comparison.
AMF said:
Shhhh ... don't tell them about the South Beyond 6000 Club. Twelve of the forty are located within the Great Smoky National Park including the following 7 bushwhack peaks: Mt. Chapman, Mt. Yonaguska, Mark's Knob (should be Mark S Knob
), Mount Guyot, Old Black, Big Cataloochee and Luftee Knob.
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Jaytrek57
New member
Many National Parks highly, highly discourage "bushwhacking" or off trail hiking. This is particulary true in the SW.
Soil
Now I have heard from guides in that area of the country that NP rangers can make "suggestions" on not being able to go off-trail, but they can not enforce it.
Case in point: My wife and I wanted to explore some Native American ruins I read about in Arches NP. They are not on most maps and are off established trails. The ranger kept reminding us about the delicate soil to the point that we got the impression we could not hike there. A few days later, I was with some guides in a local watering hole and they said that it is a NP and basically anyone can go anywhere they can get to.
NPs will also close pretty big sections of a park due to a bear/wolf kill. When this happens I have heard that it is a finable offense.
Soil
Now I have heard from guides in that area of the country that NP rangers can make "suggestions" on not being able to go off-trail, but they can not enforce it.
Case in point: My wife and I wanted to explore some Native American ruins I read about in Arches NP. They are not on most maps and are off established trails. The ranger kept reminding us about the delicate soil to the point that we got the impression we could not hike there. A few days later, I was with some guides in a local watering hole and they said that it is a NP and basically anyone can go anywhere they can get to.
NPs will also close pretty big sections of a park due to a bear/wolf kill. When this happens I have heard that it is a finable offense.
DougPaul
Well-known member
Cryptobiotic crusts are significantly damaged by a single passage. Not much nearly as delicate in the NE (with the possible exception of some of the rare alpine plants).Jaytrek57 said:
In the SW, one attempts to travel on bare rock and in stream beds...
Doug
