A Question for Dog Owners….Food?

[bandana4me]

Admittedly, Marley (my dog) is as spoiled as they come! He finished his W48’s before he was 2.

I feed him homemade dog food (it still troubles me that he eats better than some children in this world eat!) and when I search for new recipes, I keep coming across the same statements. The best food for your dog is “RAW CHICKEN WINGS”!

It goes against everything I have ever heard before. The “theory” is that a dog is basically a coyote, wolf and fox mix and their diet is raw meat. They stress never give the dog cooked chicken wings as the bones become very brittle and will splinter causing all kinds of trouble for their digestive system. My Vet says it ok, but I am very leery of this. I am asking here because the members here are very educated and devoted to their dogs.

Would you or do you feed your dog RAW CHICKEN WINGS?

Thanks

 

[audrey]

Never. I wouldn't give him raw meat or bones of any kind. I can't think of a good reason to do that, given the possibility of infection or choking. I've never heard of chicken skin having any good qualities.

 

[CINDERSMOM]

Never have, never will. I don't give my dog any meat with bones in it as she is an "inhaler" and doesn't chew things very well. I have heard many stories of dogs getting bones stuck where they shouldn't be. Even humans can get bones lodged in the wrong place! And I also don't feed her anything "raw". Would you eat raw chicken. I don't feed her anything that I wouldn't eat myself (No, I don't eat dog food but if I had to ....)

 

[Lou Hale]

I have done it from time to time, she thinks its like a super treat. Dogs are not human and things that may be appropriate for us to eat are not so for the dog and vice versa (think chocolate or raw meat).

There are risk associated with any type of feeding(or activity), dogs can choke on kibble or get melamine tainted canned food from china. I try to give my dog a slightly varied diet and change food brands from time to time. YMMV

 

[dug]

The dog food we feed our dog has chicken thighs (Smothered Comfort) and chicken wings (Wing-a-Ling) in them. First time we opened them, I was stunned to see the bones in there. They are pretty soft.

I have to say, when you open the can and see chunks of real duck, chicken wings, vegetables....it looks quite good.

 

[Maddy]

The dog food we feed our dog has chicken thighs (Smothered Comfort) and chicken wings (Wing-a-Ling) in them. First time we opened them, I was stunned to see the bones in there. They are pretty soft.

I have to say, when you open the can and see chunks of real duck, chicken wings, vegetables....it looks quite good.

I did feed my dogs raw food including chicken wings, etc several years ago. Kodi, the Akita, won't eat raw food but will kill anything in the wild. Bernie eats anything. My vet emphasized to me that feeding raw food can be time consuming because you need to add all the ingredients that are essential to maintain your dog's health. I didn't have the time to devote to this endeavor. There are books written on the subject and some folks swear by it.
As Lou pointed out "dogs are not human".

I think I will look for the Merrick So Comfort and Wing-A-Lings for them. They are presently eating Taste Of The wild but Bernie is longing for some real meat taste. Will try adding this to their food to spark things up.

I like variety in my diet and I think they do to. Their ancestors certainly had a varied diet. I can't imagine having the same old bowl of cheerios in front of me every day. Their eyes sure do light up when we make a rare stop at Mc Donald's for the $1.29 double cheese or a vanilla soft serve at the Dairy Bar. All of them have enjoyed these doggie gourmet treats and thus far, none of them have succumbed prematurely.
I have fed all my dogs raw beef marrow bones and Kodi often buries hers. It's amazing how "yummy" it looks when she digs it out. She's 9 and it hasn't made her ill yet.
*This data collected since ~1970

 

[griffin]

I've never feed Augie or our previous dogs "raw" (not counting goodies that the late Ollie and Griffin stole), but there are a couple of serious raw-feeders on the one dog-specific forum I visit occasionally.

You might try a search (or a post) here: http://www.dogwise.com/forums/categories.cfm?catid=9

fwiw, "RottieWoman" is the resident expert on raw diets. I think the benefits are exaggerated, but IF I were going to start Augs on a raw diet, her's is probably the advice I'd take most seriously.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Never have, never will.

My feelings entirely. Lauky absolutely thrives on Timberwolf. I personally can't think of any reason why I would want to start experimenting with something like that.

 

[Chip]

This is interesting. I couldn't find the link, but some researchers believe dogs evolved away from wolves faster than expected due to selective breeding (originally for "friendliness" towards humans) and what dogs ate; humans scraps, probably cooked.

While my first thought was "yea, makes sense, no problem" my second thought was "wait, 'humans' used to eat raw meat also, and now we usually don't". And there's decent health and digestive issue reasons for that.

It's certainly not necessary, and may be harmful.

As a matter of fact, my pound rescue mutt Maxx, who recently died at 16 1/2years old, had the healthiest teeth, eyes and fur I've ever seen on a dog. Our vets always asked what we fed him, and it was ALWAYS, for 16 years, store brand canned food and Gravy Train (cheapest stuff out there, basically) with some limited table scraps, so I don't even think the "Science Diet/Designer" stuff is necessary.

 

[griffin]

This is interesting. I couldn't find the link, but some researchers believe dogs evolved away from wolves faster than expected due to selective breeding (originally for "friendliness" towards humans) and what dogs ate; humans scraps, probably cooked.

A related theory (food-wise) is that NATURAL selection gave an advantage to canine ancestors who were less afraid of being near humans, thus giving them access to our trash/leftovers, this giving them more access to more readily available calories. Which included cooked food.

So, I totally don't buy the idea that raw chicken is some kind of ideal food for you dog - or coyotes or wolves for that matter. I suspect Wiley and his friends have a much more varied diet than bird wings.

That said, I poked around that dogwise forum and it seems that feeding raw wings is doable with proper supervision - http://www.dogwise.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=2264&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE= They don't mention wings specifically, but there is a reference to entire chicken carcasses (sounds like the idea is that raw bones are less splintery than cooked).

I still wouldn't do it intentionally, but YMMV.

 

[una_dogger]

Have fed Terra a raw diet in the past (from age 6 mos to appox 2 years) and she did really well on it, its alot of work to get the proportions of protiens and vitamin/minerals right. Chicken backs, necks and wing *tips* are more cartilage than bone and a very concentrated fresh source of chondroitin. I had a source for Bell and Evan's antibiotic free/free range chicken parts so this was particularly attractive to me as well as I was feeding a very "clean" diet as well.

I think the raw diet was very key in her making a full recovery from a life threatening illness at age 1.

There are quite a folks who raise and work dogs in performance sports who swear by a raw diet. As others have stated above, raw diets that include some bone are not new and have been safely fed for some time now. Bravo makes a pre-rationed raw food in which all bone sources are mainly cartilage and are ground. I stopped feeding raw because of the effort involved.

IIRC, ground raw diets are encouraged for those who have dogs who are "inhalers", as opposed to intact parts.

We feed mainly Innova Evo or other grain free diets since giving up on a raw diet. Our cats are also fed a grain free diet.

 

[Lou Hale]

A related theory (food-wise) is that NATURAL selection gave an advantage to canine ancestors who were less afraid of being near humans, thus giving them access to our trash/leftovers, this giving them more access to more readily available calories. Which included cooked food.

natural selection refers to evolution. some one correct me if I am wrong, but my dog is still 100% grey wolf. Its been selectivly bred to have certain traits but its not evolved in to its own species

Just like a wolf she should have a varied diet and not depend on only one food to provide for all her nutritional needs

 

[DougPaul]

natural selection refers to evolution. some one correct me if I am wrong, but my dog is still 100% grey wolf. Its been selectivly bred to have certain traits but its not evolved in to its own species

Selective breeding is, in effect, human controlled evolution--humans provide the selection pressure instead of the natural environment. (Both result in genetic changes.)

There was a Russian study on the domestication of semi-wild farm foxes (only the friendlier foxes were allowed to breed). The foxes became much more tolerant of humans in only 6 generation. After 30-35 generations, they became "docile, eager to please and unmistakably domesticated". Other changes, similar to the changes from wolf to dog, occurred simultaneously indicating that just a few genetic changes drove all of the behavior and physical factors. http://www.floridalupine.org/publications/PDF/trut-fox-study.pdf

Doug

 

[griffin]

natural selection refers to evolution. some one correct me if I am wrong, but my dog is still 100% grey wolf. Its been selectivly bred to have certain traits but its not evolved in to its own species

Just like a wolf she should have a varied diet and not depend on only one food to provide for all her nutritional needs

Can't speak to the dna, although I've read references to dogs as a subscpecies of wolves, and if you cross-breed the two you're going to get something with very different physical and behavioral characteristics from a domestic dog. Unless you really do own a wolf, no wolf or coyote is going to mistake your dog for it's kin.

But yes I was refering to an evolutionary process. There are a growing number of scientists who believe that dogs started to "domesticate" themselves so to speak before humans got involved in breeding for various characteristics. Roughly, the idea is that wolves who were better able to exist in closer proximity to humans - were less likely to be scare away by their scent, etc. - were able access to more calories in the form of human refuse, which helped them succeed at reproducing. This also meant they were likely to reproduce with other wolves with a similar lack of fear of humans, reinforcing the trait, etc. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to find a couple of articles online.

 

[bandana4me]

Clarification

I am not looking to put him on a raw meat diet, but rather feed him the raw chicken wings as a snack or reward. I have so many recipes that he does receive a variety of food. I will make 4 or 5 different meals at one time so he can switch one day to another. I also have treats that I make for him. It would be an alternate treat besides the bone marrow bones that I feed him.

Thanks for the input, I am going to give it a try!

 

[Chip]

some one correct me if I am wrong, but my dog is still 100% grey wolf. Its been selectivly bred to have certain traits but its not evolved in to its own species.

Same species, different sub-species, with distinct differences;

The differences between dogs and wolves are larger than between any domestic animal and its wild ancestor. Dogs have 30% smaller relative brain size, noticeable differences in dentition, adaptations to an omnivorous diet in their digestive tract, and numerous other anatomical differences; even their gait and tracks are different. There are very significant behavioral differences: for example, dogs can't feed their puppies by regurgitating food. Adult dogs display many neotenic behaviors, such as tail wagging and barking (Dinets & Rotshild, 1998).

ALTHOUGH...

However, the "domesticated wolf" theory has serious problems. Some features of dog anatomy, particularly brain structure, resemble jackals and coyotes, but not wolves. Although the most primitive dog breeds and the oldest feral populations all look similar, they do not particularly resemble wolves, having typical dog anatomy and mostly reddish or yellowish coloration. There is absolutely no archaeological evidence of any transition from wolves to dogs from human sites. And, most interestingly, pariah dogs of Asia are not known to hybridize with sympatric wolves, even where both forms coexist in very close proximity.

A much better explanation for all known facts is that dogs have existed in tropical Asia prior to the arrival of modern-type humans and subsequent domestication (Dinets & Rotshild, 1998).

In a little-noticed publication, Koler-Matznik (2002) summarized evidence that the ancestor of the dog was not the gray wolf, but a closely related, smaller extinct canid. The author suggests Canis (lupus) variabilis, an extinct wolf that occurred in present-day China 100-200 thousand years ago, as the most likely candidate).

 

[Little Rickie]

My vet said no. That was good enough for me. My dog seems happy and healthy so I'm not going to worry about it or go to the expense.

BTW The vet didn't think our food production chain (raising birds on slaughter byproducts, suppliments and medications) is healthy for dogs.

It made me think, then why am I eating that stuff?

 

[una_dogger]

I am not looking to put him on a raw meat diet, but rather feed him the raw chicken wings as a snack or reward.

Thanks for the input, I am going to give it a try!

FWIW, I personally feel this topic is way beyond the scope of an internet hiking forum. Raw feeding is a very complex regime -- your vet and a good online dog health forum would be a more reliable source, IMHO -- IIRC, when I was feeding raw, one of the main caveats was not to blend raw and processed feedings -- if my memory serves, mineral imbalances are one potentially harmful downsides.

Many higher end pet food stores will carry humanely raised, free range/antibiotic free sources of raw diet. Another good place to start.