Acclimatization on washington

[giggy]

pretty cool article on 20% precent less O2 on washington -

http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/index.php

I have been asked many times does the air affect me up there and I always said nah - to low to notice anything

- and any tiredness I just though was - well being tired from a long day. Maybe there is something to it - I have always heard when teams went to denver, it was noticable.

I didn't realize it was 20% less at 6K.

wondering what others think on the issue.

 

[sapblatt]

I knew there was less O2 up there but it has never bothered me - everyone is different - some will have issues at 6000, others are ok at 14000. I had issues running in Santa Fe (10000 feet) - nothing serious, but I was seriously out of breath - at the time I was running 40 miles/week and I was ready to quit after jogging three miles - I am sure I would have been fine if I had a few more days...

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Dunno. maybe with instruments to measure, however uder 12K feet, I can't tell it it is because I'm tired from getting there, or what. At a bit over 12K feet, I start to notice that the air is thinner, but I don'T notice it less than that.

On washington. it would be easier to try things. Drive up. Eliminate the tiredness from the climb.

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

On Mt. Elbert (CO, ~14,400ft), I noticed the air pressure was about 16" Hg. Typical here (400 ft) is about 30". I believe air pressure is directly related to % air, so that would mean there is about 1/2 as much air at 14,000. I began to feel it at 12,500.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

The only odd thing that I remember is I went for a physical after spending a week out camping at elevation in the whites of around 3500 to 4000 feet. When I came back and had the physical which included a RBC count the doctor was a little puzzled and asked me if I smoked. I said I had quit several years ago and then I asked him why he asked. He said that my Red blood cell count was elevated. Usually this was seen in people that smoke. It was in the normal range but on the high side. I told him that the only thing I could think of was the fact that I spent a week at a little higher than normal elevation. I still chalk it up to that but I have no definate proof that was the reason. Of course, it does make sense. It's just I didn't think that my body would adjust that quickly. And like I said, I am not positive that's what it was from.

Keith

 

[Chip]

"Several changes take place in the body which enable it to cope with decreased oxygen:

-The depth of respiration increases.
-The body produces more red blood cells to carry oxygen.
-Pressure in pulmonary capillaries is increased, "forcing" blood into parts of the lung which are not normally used when breathing at sea level.
-The body produces more of a particular enzyme that causes the release of oxygen from haemoglobin to the body tissues."

This is a good article on the subject.

I believe the slow ascent and deep breathing associated with hiking compensate for the oxygen that's missing, but this may explain Moose sightings...

 

[DougPaul]

The only odd thing that I remember is I went for a physical after spending a week out camping at elevation in the whites of around 3500 to 4000 feet. When I came back and had the physical which included a RBC count the doctor was a little puzzled and asked me if I smoked. I said I had quit several years ago and then I asked him why he asked. He said that my Red blood cell count was elevated.

It is also possible that you just naturally have a high RBC.

I'd expect the effect of 3-4Kft to be pretty small. (Non-medical guess.)

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

"Several changes take place in the body which enable it to cope with decreased oxygen:

The respiration and heart rate changes take place immediately. Full acclimatization takes about 6 weeks which is why the slow ascent is required to go safely to altitude. (Nothing in the NE qualifies as "altitude".)

Doug

 

[Ridgerunner]

50 % at approx. 5000 m

Here is a table of the variation of barometric pressure with altitude. You need to get above 5000 m (or 16500 feet) to be at 50 % pressure, hence O2 content.

 

[David Metsky]

I'd be surprised if there were any noticable effects for a short visit to 6000', it's just not high enough. If you tried to run a 100 meter sprint up there it probably would show up on the stopwatch, but beyond pushing yourself to the limit it just isn't high enough for any real acclimitization.

I have seen people suffer from high altitude as low as 8,000', so Washington isn't that far off. This isn't less oxygen, which will be noticable at 6,000' in lower athletic performance. But I've seen hikers get headaches, nauseous, etc at 8,000' that required them to lose altitude quickly for their health. I've never heard of that on Washington.

-dave-

 

[spaddock]

I've never noticed because like many have said, you're pretty tired once you've hiked all that elevation.

But like Giggy said, pro sports teams always say they notice a difference. Denver is 5280 feet, I often have read that teams playing against the Avalanche or Broncos will go up for the game as early as possible to get acclimatized.


-Shayne

 

[DougPaul]

But I've seen hikers get headaches, nauseous, etc at 8,000' that required them to lose altitude quickly for their health. I've never heard of that on Washington.

One difference between Mt Washington and many of the 8000ft locations is that almost everyone who vists Mt Washington only stays a few hours at most and then goes down. It is quite possible to hike to 8000ft or higher and stay the night or longer in many other locations.

Many of the symptoms of anoxia can take up to a day to show up. On a 1 day unacclimatised ascent of McKinley (10Kft -> 20Kft -> 10Kft in 19hrs) by Ned Gillette and Galen Rowell, one of the climbers could feel/hear the gurgling (symptoms of pulmonary edema (fluid)) in his lungs on the way down. A delay in the descent could easily have been fatal.

Doug

 

[Jaytrek57]

But like Giggy said, pro sports teams always say they notice a difference. Denver is 5280 feet, I often have read that teams playing against the Avalanche or Broncos will go up for the game as early as possible to get acclimatized.

Teams (East Coast) often do this b/c they are going from sea level directly to 5,280 feet. Jet Lag also plays a factor in becoming acclimatize, generally teams like to be in Denver two days before the game (NFL), but teams, during play-offs, have been known to spend up to a week practicing in Denver.

Peace.

 

[DougPaul]

Tolerance to altitude varies wildly. Kevin just reported noticing some minor effects as low as 7Kft. In contrast, I have gone from sea level to 12Kft in 48 hrs (fly sea level to Denver (5Kft), stay overnight, and drive up to Trail Ridge Road in Rocky Mtn Ntl Pk) and been able to do some short (<1mi) hikes. I couldn't climb as fast as I could at lower altitudes and had to huff and puff a bit more than usual, but no symptoms. I was only up high for several hours.

(Not claiming any special skill on my part. Just luck plus not doing anything wrong.)

Tolerance for a single individual can also vary significantly on different visits to altitude.

Doug

 

[BrentD22]

Wow

In CO i was driving over love land pass. it's about 12,ooo feet. I have to say that I felt the difference in a huge way. I renembr getting drunk in Denver way easier than normal.

 

[w7xman]

I'd be surprised if there were any noticable effects for a short visit to 6000', it's just not high enough. If you tried to run a 100 meter sprint up there it probably would show up on the stopwatch, but beyond pushing yourself to the limit it just isn't high enough for any real acclimitization.

I've never heard of that on Washington.

-dave-

Though your right, no true accimitization issues...
You better believe that there are oxygen effects at 6000 feet!!!

It is just fortunate that most on this forum have a disadvantage in noticing them, as most hikers tend to be in good shape.

Spend a few hours watching a typical person ascend the 72 steps to the summit from the parking lot. I've seen two people pass out at the top, more than a few dizzy, and one chest pains. Atleast half have to stop halfway up the stairway, and I can't believe that half of them can't ascend stairs at sea level! Fortunately there are EMT's at the top in the summer.

20% (or more) oxygen reduction is 20%, 1 out of 5 breaths becomes a comparative waste. Sure no TRUE altitude sickness, but it DOES affect people.

You bring up the stopwatch idea, try it. My best time up Mt. Wash was after a considerable stint on the summit, then climbed immediately after coming down.

 

[mediclimber]

As has been said, it is an indavidual response to altitude. There are some documented cases of problems as low as 4,000 feet. It's just nothing that we as a climbing/hiking community really think about in the East much. As a side note, there are also quite a few documented casses of people taking a fkight to the Keys, scuba diving, getting back on a return flight, and developing the bends from the atmospheric pressure changes back in the states. Just another thing to remember for EMS providers when dealing with the really weird calls. I personaly have had problems at different elevations on different climbs. Your tolerance can change not only with acclimitization but also because of several other factors including overall health and fitness at the time, nutrition and hydration, and stress levels.

 

[Mark]

I have a friend who gets nauseous whenever she climbs Washington, ...

Probably more from the fumes from the Cog or the summit tourists.

 

[smitty77]

Though your right, no true accimitization issues...
You better believe that there are oxygen effects at 6000 feet!!!

It is just fortunate that most on this forum have a disadvantage in noticing them, as most hikers tend to be in good shape.

Spend a few hours watching a typical person ascend the 72 steps to the summit from the parking lot. I've seen two people pass out at the top, more than a few dizzy, and one chest pains. Atleast half have to stop halfway up the stairway, and I can't believe that half of them can't ascend stairs at sea level! Fortunately there are EMT's at the top in the summer.

I took my wife up there via the auto road when she was 8 months pregnant, kind of a last minute trip so that she could visit Washington for the first time before the little one arrived. We left the house (around 1000 ft elevation), drove 3 hours, and took the auto road to the summit. She and I noticed a difference in her ability to climb the stairs to the building, and she was in pretty decent shape. She wasn't a lot slower, but she was breathing deeper and a lot more often than normal. We weren't sure if it was the drop in O2 or a possible shift in barometric pressure, but the extra demands of carrying a baby seemed to compound the effect.

We made a return visit this year to see the alpine flowers (starting from the parking area at the cow pasture), and she didn't have any issues to speak of. I was the one with the labored breathing since I was carrying the baby this time around.

Smitty

 

[SAR-EMT40]

AMS can happen around 7000 and with certain people below 7000. This is unusual but not really uncommon. Spending a week at a higher altitude 3000-5000 feet wouldn't surprise me if there were physiologic changes. Can I say definitively there would be, no. I do remember that the '68 Olympic team trained in Denver because of fears that the American athletes would be at a disadvantage due to the higher altitude of that years Olympic events in Mexico City. I don't have time to research it now but I would be surprised if physiologic changes (especially to the heart, lungs, and blood) didn't happen. Especially given a weeks time. Not enough to see or feel necessarily but enough to measure say, with a blood test.

Keith