acclimatizing- Men Vs. Women

[DougPaul]

Doug - I think 19 hours was pushing it as well, especially given the height differential.

I think so too. I wasn't advocating, just reporting an extreme example of the short window. Many of us use the same window, although we don't generally push it as hard. But if for some reason we become immobilized high up, the altitude effects could become serious.

Even more extreme, but with more preparation (longer than the window): Messner did Everest in 3 days from 21Kft, solo and with little food and drink after 6 weeks of pre-acclimatiztion. His description suggests that he was ataxic (balance problems) and hallucinating (farily common at high altitudes) on the way down. (Some of us can be ataxic and hallucinate at sea level... )

I had the good fortune on my first climb of Rainier to have a physician in our group who had been to altitude many times. As he listened to each of us breathe/talk/cough (we were stormed in at 10K for a few days) he would occasionally comment on what stage of HAPE he though we might be in. It was a real eye-opener, and have been grateful for what he taught us. Have used it many times to monitor myself and others.

A very interesting and useful experience. AMS is common, and I expect mild HAPE to also be common at the speeds at which climbers ascend. Most acclmatize or descend before they become serious, but not all.

A quick ascent to 10K does certainly put you in the zone in which problems are not all that uncommon.


<speculation> The above window may simply be due to time required for HAPE and HACE to develop. </speculation>

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Sorry, Doug - I just don't buy the notion that definitive scientific study has been done on the effects of altitude

Come on Kevin, that is a different statement. Previously you said:

there's little scientific info available.

I disagreed--there is a significant amount of scientific info available (read Houston).

Is there a definitive scientific study? Not as far as I know. There is still much to be learned, but there is also a significant amount that has already been learned. Altitude acclimatization and pathology are complex events.

Doug
Not a professional expert in the field, just an interested layman who has put some effort into learning from the real experts.

 

[MattC]

FWIW, here's a link on acclimatizing someone posted on a thread at ADK Forum:

http://www.ismmed.org/np_altitude_tutorial.htm

It states this:
"Anyone who goes to altitude can get AMS. It is primarily related to individual physiology (genetics) and the rate of ascent; there is no significant effect of age, gender, physical fitness, or previous altitude experience."

Matt

 

[duane]

blood pressure & acclimatization

I wonder what the relationship is with blood pressure and acclimatization. Does an individual with high BP have a tougher time at altitude?

 

[Aviarome]

In general, I do not believe that hypertension affects acclimitization as much as it should. I believe anyone can Google the pathophysiology of altitude sickness, but basically the most important compensatory mechanism is ventilation. With hypobaric hypoxia, people will adapt by hyperventiliation by removing as much carbon dioxide. Another smaller mechanism is increased sympathetic tone leading to vasoconstriction and . . ."hypertension." So it is possible that with a baseline of hypertension, it may be more difficult to acclimatize to higher altitudes.

One aspect where hypertension may become problematic is during high altitude pulmonary edema, where there is increased vasoconstriction. At this point, I need to review some literature to see if a person with hypertension does respond in the same way and is more susceptible to pulm edema. But then again, high altitude pulmonary edema is one of the later endpoints.

 

[duane]

One more reason to reduce sodium intake...

 

[crazymama]

Research is being done but according to the info I found there are still many unanswered questions as to the pathophysiology, individual susceptibility, and how the various disorders fit with each other (AMS, HAPE, HACE). You can search the Entrez Pubmed website to see what is being published. Here are a couple of abstracts that I found that gave some indication of the current state of knowledge on this subject:

abstract #1

abstract #2

 

[DougPaul]

I wonder what the relationship is with blood pressure and acclimatization. Does an individual with high BP have a tougher time at altitude?

Might make one more susceptable to HAPE and maybe HACE. HAPE involves fluid leakage into the lungs due to high blood pressure.

The above is a GUESS on my part. I am not aware of any evidence.

Doug

 

[Aviarome]

Although reduced sodium intake was made popular several years ago, research has shown that it is not universal. There are responders and non-responders. Responders make up about 25% and possibly up to 40%. However, the medical field was still asked to universally encourage decreased sodium intake due to other beneficial reasons.