Altimeters & the 100 Highest

[Neil]

Maybe it's just my imagination but I think I detect a "holier than thou" tone as the non (anti?) GPS/altimeter posters comment.
If hiking is for fun and some people find GPS's and altimeters fun then what the heck?

I never used a GPS until a friend sold me his old one. I bought it cuz I my son and I began doing winter climbs up trail-less peaks and I like the idea of having a few key waypoints. In order to master the thing I've been entering routes, using tracklogs and basically trying to rely on it like I did a compass and reading the terrain etc. When I've been thrashing around in trees with no views it's been nice to have that little arrow point the way which is basically what a compass does except better. When it's cold and windy I find the gps easier to use than a map and compass.

There's something that fascinates me about every square meter of the entire planet being designated by a number that you can enter into a gps and press "Goto".

Is it a better method than map and compass? I don't know yet.

Here's a good usage: I plan on climbing Emmons from the herd path then descending the slide. The top of the slide would be real easy to miss which means a longer bushwhack and no views. Well guess what? I got the coordinates from satellite imagery and now I'm pretty sure of hitting the slide's top right on the button.

 

[dms]

I guess that I am "old school", the folks I first bushwacked 3K peaks with, Dennis Crispo, John McHugh, relied on map and compass, an altimeter was a secondary tool in our hikes. That said, if I was more technologically competent I would love to try out a GPS. Seems to me it would be fun tool to be able utilize along with the other basic ones.

 

[DougPaul]

Maybe it's just my imagination but I think I detect a "holier than thou" tone as the non (anti?) GPS/altimeter posters comment.
If hiking is for fun and some people find GPS's and altimeters fun then what the heck?

Not just your imagination.

This "I did it the old way so why should these young whipper-snappers use anything else" attitude is nothing new. But the "old way" is also using tools that were once new too: eg vibram sole boots, waterproof-breathable fabrics, nylon, etc. The line between old and new is arbitrary and subjective, just depends on when one learned the sport or did something of interest.

The best mountaineers learn how to get the best out of whatever combination of tools are at hand, new or old.

Or perhaps the new tools allow one to do the same thing with greater safety.

The next big list achievement should be to do the winter 48 naked and blindfolded... (The ultimate in ultra-light: combines both new and old!)

Doug

 

[Tramper Al]

I guess that I am "old school", [though] I would love to try out a GPS.

Old school and an open mind. That's all good.

It's just a tool, like any other. Why worry about how someone else hikes?

I carry a titanium spork when I backpack. Oh, no. Divide and discuss.

 

[Papa Bear]

I carry a titanium spork when I backpack. Oh, no. Divide and discuss.

A poor choice, as it attracts lightning. Kelvar is the only way to go.
Pb

 

[Sherpa John]

<sarcasm on>
Giggle, giggle...
<sarcasm off>

ya well... it spins up they'ah'

 

[RoySwkr]

Ever whip your compass out on the summit of hale?

Many times, and never found any of the reputed magnetic rocks, nor has anyone I've met. One guy thinks he found some that would affect a compass up close, but as far as affecting serious navigation it's an old wives tale. http://www.voy.com/108582/3.html

 

[Mark]

I don't know about the summit of Hale, but there certainly are formations in the Whites that will throw your compass off. Coming down the Liberty Springs trail, we took out a compass to try to figure out what mountain we were looking at off in the distance. We knew we were generally facing west, but the compass bearing was way off. We moved down the trail 100 feet and tried again and got a believable reading. Something on the trail was throwing the compass off.

 

[Sherpa John]

Hmm... well I remember when I did Hale the 1st time my compass went wild! I thought it was a blast. When Sarah and I return (hopefully Sunday) I'll bring the good ole video camera and video tape her compass reading. I'll post it on a website for you guys to view via quicktime.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

My guess is that compasses might go nuts on Hale if you hold them directly on top of the steel posts from the old firetower, but I do not know of any bedrock in the Whites that is mafic (ferromagnesian) enough to affect compass readings.

I side with the "old school" about using a gps for bushwhacking; it simply would not be any fun for me to carry/use one. I use a gps for work, which I prefer not to mix with hiking if it can be avoided.

I do really like my 40 year old Thommen altimeter, which still reads within 50 ft accuracy if atmospheric conditions are stable. And, when I have a chance to calibrate at known elevations, the Thommen also tells me when the fronts are approaching. I wear it on the same sling around my neck with an el cheapo compass for winter bushwhacks (I do not bushwhack in summer, at least not intentionally), with a folded photocopy of appropriate 7.5 minute topo in zip lock bag in my pocket.

 

[John H Swanson]

Roy,

On two occasions I have found areas where my compass was affected by magnetic rocks.

One area is a common lookout in the Hudson highlands. I was looking out and trying to identify a peak in the distance. Grabbed my compass and was informed by a more senior hiker that it would not work on this spot because of the magnetic rock below. I did infact see that the comass pointed in the wrong direction. It was long ago so I do not remember where it is. Somewhere near StormKing or Black Rock Forest I think. Someplace down there where the cannon balls were made from mined iron ore. I could easily find out if you're interested.

Second one and more interesting was on a bushwhack with Larry Garland, Sue Eilers and others. I do not remember the peak or exact spot. We were hiking on a bearing to a promanant landmark ie. Lets walk up this drainage to the left of that rock. Along the way, we watched our compasses. Across one section of land the compass needle reversed direction and as we walked, and then went back to the original orientation. Larry will probably remember this as he was very interesed in this phenonomen. Sue and I were less interested as we had both already experienced magnetic rocks.

Two occasions in 30 yrs of compass use. Rare enough to give me very little excuse for the times I did not trust my compass

JHS

 

[mafogle]

Magnetic Rocks

Roy,

Some friends and I experienced the effect of magnetic rocks while trying to triangulate our position, about 3500 ft up the SE face of Mt. MacNaughton in the Adirondacks, not far from the famous MacIntyre iron works. Not only were the rocks magnetic close up, but even at a height of 4' they moved the needle.

-Martin

 

[RoySwkr]

Coming down the Liberty Springs trail, we took out a compass to try to figure out what mountain we were looking at off in the distance. We knew we were generally facing west, but the compass bearing was way off.

Now if you had a GPS or altimeter you could have gotten a good location for the spot

But seriously, if you can give an estimate of how far down you were, I'd like to try to locate the spot. And SJ, I'd be more interested in a distance from the cairn than a video, I know you have the talent to fake Martian landings if you wish

I'm not familiar with NY, but I know there are certainly places worldwide where a compass is useless, I just haven't seen one in NH. If the compass points what I think is the wrong way, I go 100 feet and try again. If the compass still points the same way, it probably isn't the compass that is wrong

 

[Mark]

Now if you had a GPS or altimeter you could have gotten a good location for the spot

But seriously, if you can give an estimate of how far down you were, I'd like to try to locate the spot.

I probably did have a GPS with me, but we were not really that interested in getting an exact heading. As I recall, someone stopped on the trail and asked what "that summit off in the distance" was. Since I had my map out, I thought I would try to figure it out, but could not get the compass to settle down. I made sure I wasn't holding it near anything that could throw it off. My hiking partner suggested we move a little in case we were on a magnetic outcropping and that seemed to help.

I don't recall the exact location or even if it was above or below the camp site. There was a view off to the west if that helps.

... i've never seen a gps give an accurate elevation reading on a summit

My GPS has a barometric altimeter. I've seen it within 10 feet of the actual elevation and off by 75 feet at other times. If a front is moving in, the readings on any barometric altimeter will drift a lot. For my purposes, it's close enough. I'm not trying to land a plane in zero visibility, zero ceiling conditions. I never rely solely on my GPS to get me in or out of the woods.