Am I crazy? Winter overnight in the Whites

[Casual Hiker]

Between the snow falling here today in Massachusetts (6-10 expected where I live) and upcoming meniscus surgery in November, I am daydreaming about what hiking challenge I can do this year. I feel like I am missing out on the best part of the year due to injury.

Anyway, I am thinking about doing an overnight trip in the Whites - something I've never done in the past. I have a good backpacking tent, and a -20 bag I can bring. My thinking right now is a good beginner hike might be to head up the Kinsmans. I've climbed North Kinsman several times in the winter, and it seems doable to me. Are there any other good beginner winter overnight spots? I would think I should avoid the Presidentials, although I wonder if Pierce below tree line at the Mizpah site might be ok.

I'd prefer not becoming a statistic, and really hope to get a good winter overnight experience with a manageable amount of risk. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[vegematic]

I think the Mizpah tentsite is within reach of a less experienced winter hiker. If you don't feel compelled to bag a peak then the old Perkins Notch lean-to site would be nice. I am also a fan of Unknown Pond in the winter. A nice loop is possible by heading north on the Kinsman Ridge from Unknown Pond to the Mill Brook trail and come down to the Fish Hatchery. Before you begin your descent, consider tagging Rogers Ledge. That section of the KRT is a lovely open glade and is exquisite in the snow. You would likely be very alone on this loop.

For my first winter overnight in the Whites I went up to Greyknob on the north side of Mt. Adams. The cabin and other hikers provided the extra margin of safety that I wanted. If you want to be outdoors then you might consider the Log Cabin (well below treeline) or the Perch (just about at treeline and not far from Grayknob). Both are lean-tos and the Perch has good tenting These are all RMC camps and have a small fee.
-vegematic

 

[SAR-EMT40]

The short answer is no, your not crazy. I have done many winter overnights as have many on this board. Winter is truly an incredible time to go camping. Saying that, winter leaves less room for mistakes so preparation and knowledge is key. Vegematic has some good ideas. Also, don't forget about your backyard. You can always do your first winter overnight in your backyard or another spot within easy reach of car if you need to bail. Small, easily correctable mistakes when camping in winter until you get the hang of it.

Also remember that snow can be an insulator to actually keep you warm-er, and you can slide things on it. Meaning that you can use a sled because likely your winter loads will be heavier. More food, clothing, etc, but pulling it on a sled I find nice and comfortable. Then when at camp, you have lots of food, clothing and equipment.

Keith

 

[mirabela]

No, not crazy. I love winter overnights & have been looking forward to this year's "winter expedition" since June.

Devote some effort -- both in reading and in at- or near-home actual outdoor experimentation -- to learning how to sleep. Two pads, use your draft collar, use your hood fully mummied, consider a vapor barrier liner (cheap & light, and hugely effective), and toss a couple of hot water bottles into the foot end of your sleeping bag. You'll be glad you did.

Edited to add -- either Kinsman Pond or Nauman would be reasonable places to go inasmuch as you're very unlikely to be truly alone in either place, especially if you go on a weekend. They're both beefy climbs, though.

 

[una_dogger]

with your surgery coming up, why not take advantage of the MANY low point beautiful areas in the whites..sleeping low and keeping elevatiion gain of lugging gear to a minimum -- Flat Mountain Pond, Dream Lake and Unknown Pond come to mind as a few really sweet winter overnights.

Sometimes just getting out in the tent in the cold, quiet mountain air is all that's needed!

Happy Trails!

 

[nartreb]

You might also consider a practice run in your own backyard, just to have that extra margin of familiarity with issues like water, cooking, and bathroom needs in winter conditions. It's the little things that make a big difference in your comfort in a tent.

 

[Casual Hiker]

Sometimes just getting out in the tent in the cold, quiet mountain air is all that's needed!

Happy Trails!

Thanks. I think you nailed it there. Maybe I will see if there is something I can do along the Midstate in Mass or the Wapack. I would enjoy Monadnock, too, but I believe there is no camping other than in the campground. I do think I am mostly looking to start out with a cold, quiet night out in the winter. I think the skies must be spectacular that time of year.

 

[Kevinski]

You should consider the Tully Trail for a Mass Midstate option. Nice ridge walk, 3 waterfalls and a shelter at the North end near Royalston Falls. Tent Camping is allowed around the shelter. The shelter has a fire pit as well (always a plus in cold weather). The loop is aprox 22 miles. Even though it feels remote, you are not far from safety if things go wrong.

 

[Brambor]

You are not crazy. Once you do it you will say to yourself "why haven't I done this sooner!"

 

[Stan]

You might also consider a practice run in your own backyard, just to have that extra margin of familiarity with issues like water, cooking, and bathroom needs in winter conditions. It's the little things that make a big difference in your comfort in a tent.

That makes a lot of sense if this is your first time winter camping. Why compound the uncertainty of your winter preparation for a campout with a backpack, especially coming off knee surgery and carrying a winter load?

I would tackle the two issues separately to start.

Whether it is your backyard or a car camp, a bailout is not far away if you're equipment, preparation or fondness for the event proves lacking. Osceola Campground near Waterville Valley has always appealed to me as a potential winter camping introduction... even though the place is closed for the winter it is only a couple hundred yards from where you might park.

As simple procedure as a mensicus repair is, it still takes time to recover. Some tentative practice on the knee, when cleared by your surgeon, could include a progression from a light load easy hike to full winter backpack load up steep grades.

Count me as a contrarian here but I think you'd be shortchanging the value of developing experience, and treating that knee with disrespect, to jump right into what can be a very dangerous situation. If it resulted in a rescue, or recovery, you would deserve to be fined in MNSHO. A little less machismo and more humility in the face of winter conditions in the White Mountains might be the smart start to what many enjoy immensely.

 

[sierra]

yes

Go for it, if you survive, you can go again. Seriously if your new to winter camping stay low.

 

[DougPaul]

This is one of those recurring topics...

There is additional useful info in:
Camping in frigid weather? http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27479
and
Winter camping in New Hampshire http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=42174

The AMC also publishes "Winter Hiking and Camping" http://amcstore.outdoors.org/amcsto...&+Camping&pf_id=PACOIDJLJBKDOMGG&dept_id=3021

Doug

 

[Mike P.]

I guess I am wrestling with the knee injury aspect. (having never had anything similar) how much weight do you want to put on it & how far do you want to drag yourself out on one good leg & a bad one if the trip is too hard for your knee?

In reality, that's up to you. Sounds like you have the camping thing down, How are your cooking skills? If they were addressed, I missed them. If you're not sure you can start & keep a stove going in expected conditions, that's important.

If you go with someone & the knee acts up, the other party could carry most of the weight back. If solo, you either leave it or have a great friend willing to go & get it or you carry it out making the knee bark even more.

How much snow on the trail would be an issue, if plenty, not an issue on either spot. If not much snow, Getting up to Kinsman Pond has more opportunities, IMO, to twist a knee than the C-Path & Mizpah Cut-off. I'd want to minimize that impact.

 

[MichaelJ]

As many have said, start in your backyard for your first night. Test out all the equipment: tent set up on a snow surface, sleeping bag, stove, the whole spiel. Get through the night comfortably. There's definitely an art to keeping the winter tent warm but yet also well-ventilated enough to not be iced up or worse, dripping on you.

Perhaps have your second night at a place like Hancock Campground off the Kanc. Take one of the walk-in sites downslope from the big parking lot. Now you have the safety of your car if you need it, but you're along the river, you're on much deeper snow, you get to experience the cold winter privy seat, you can even learn about the winter campfire (it makes a ring of super-slippery ice around it). Practice melting snow for drinking water; you have to be careful not to burn your pot and it takes a lot more stove energy than you might think.

At this point, if your gear's all in order and you're still happy about it, then you can combine the camping with carrying the full pack on snowshoes. Nauman is an excellent destination. Kinsman Pond would work well as well, you get the hut as a stop along the way if you need it. There are also excellent options in the Zealand Valley. Just walk (or pull a sled) up the road and onto the trail and you'll see places both before and after the hut where you could set up. Since any (non-yellow) snow can be turned into drinking water, and what in summer are logs and boulders and uneven forest floor is now 4' of smooth snow, you can camp almost anywhere.

I'll leave you with one parting trick: when you pick your campsite, using your snowshoes, clomp down the whole area firmly for a good 5 minutes. Then set up your tent, still with snowshoes on. After another 1/2 hour or so that snow should consolidate nicely. By the time you're all set up, you might even be able to remove the snowshoes, just don't step off the "pad" you made!

 

[Lefty E]

Rattle River shelter/tentsite off of Rt. 2 in Shelburne is not too far away and kind of gentle approach..but not much of any view unless you travel a ways up the trail...on the Great Gulf Trail at the Bluff area tentsites and nice views and does not take that long to get there??

 

[Raven]

I suggest a regimen starting by cold water immersions and turning your heat down into the 40's.

Seriously, it's good to also have a routine for arriving at camp that involves prioritizing warm dry clothes (keep the heat in that your body is still making) , getting a stove going for drinks, food, and continued movement like setting up whatever you need to for camp (tent, bivy sac, bags, pad, whatever).

Depending on many factors, you may enter camp cold. Time can be critical and there are some things that, if done first, will pay dividends in warmth later. Even if you arrive warm, that heat can be lost fast once you stop especially after burning mega calories on a long hike. It helps to conserve it (hat, down, sleeping bag) while you have it and keep it going with food and warm drinks.

I'd echo the idea of others here of staying low and close for the first one or tenting (legally)near an open hut for bailout options. It'll be just as cold anyway. Lighting a stove with wind and wet, numb, cold hands is just as hard a half mile from the road as it is deep in the sticks.

Lots of good advice in this thread.

Totally not a crazy idea though.

 

[Casual Hiker]

Thanks for all the advice. I've done winter camping before, but only in a group setting (Boy Scouts). I think I will do a dry run in my yard once we have some real snow so that I can see how my equipment sets up. After that I'll try one of the lower trips so that I don't get myself in a jam. One of my major goals has always been to not end up on a news broadcast in Boston as the local man missing in the mountains!

 

[Maddy]

Two things (of many) that I learned on my OB course in No. MN. Temps at night down to -30/-40.

NEVER get in your sleeping bag if you are cold. Run around, do jumping jacks until you warm up. You want to get in warm so you can maintain that body warmth in the bag. Great way to prevent the possibility of a serious hypothermic event.

Boil some water and fill your water bottles with it. Place between you thighs and that will be a big help also. Be sure the covers are tightened so there is no chance of them leaking. You will also have some drinking water for bkfst.

Last but not least, bring a large Bernese Mountain dog. Use as a large fur blanket and tent heater.
DOG FOR RENT! Ready, willing, and able!

 

[peakbagger]

Gentian Pond in Shelburne is a popular beginners/intermediate spot, although the steep last section of trail just below the hut can be interesting to climb when its icy. There are campsites a privy and a shelter. The rest of the walk in is via old logging roads. The views out of the valley in Shelburne are nice

One thing to learn about winter camping is that its usually warmer to sleep in a tent than a unheated shelter