AMC asking for donations

[skiguy]

So how do you feel about donating to the AMC right now during this pandemic. Saw on Face Book today from a current AMC member whom was sent a letter asking for charitable donations. The AMC was crying about how revenues were way down with the Huts being closed. They were asking for donations of $100 dollars or more. Seems to me operating revenue would have to be way down also. Is income to operating expenses that far out of line? How about that CEO that pulls down close to $300K a year?

 

[Mike P.]

Is the CEO still at that amount? I thought they were there several CEO's ago. I thought Andy F. had that for a salary. I'm indifferent to it, I did think the huts were close to break even although I would think PNVC and HC would have done better and maybe if people don't stop at a hut or swing through the lobby of one of the lower elevation operations they don't buy any swag.

Some occupations have not missed a beat so if those people want to donate, I'm find with that. I'd be more upset if they sent a targeted donation form because data analyst figured out that what your estimated household income was or how much you spend on non-essentials based on FB posts I made. (well, my wife made, I'm not in FB)

 

[B the Hiker]

Crying? Why that choice of word?

ALL non-profits are hurting at the moment.

 

[Quietman]

According to Charity Navigator, John Judge who is the current president and CEO makes $293K.

 

[Peaks]

Like most not for profit organizations, AMC is constantly soliciting donations for one reason or another. (Frankly, in this time of need, I made a generous donation to our local food pantry)

 

[ChrisB]

Like most not for profit organizations, AMC is constantly soliciting donations for one reason or another. (Frankly, in this time of need, I made a generous donation to our local food pantry)

Any non profit bail out bucks heading their way? I’m sure they’ll apply if there’s a ghost of a chance.

 

[sierra]

This does not surprise me at all. Non profit huh? I can think of many organizations more worthy of my money. I have never seen eye to eye with the AMC and they keep coming up with more reasons to keep it that way. What a joke.

 

[peakbagger]

I was talking to a generally reliable source several months ago and his contention was that the Maine facilities in the 100 Mile wilderness were supported by endowments, funds set aside from selling conservation easements and some income from timber operations. The claim was that they "did not need"the revenue from guests. There was a claim from years ago that the white mountain huts did not make net revenue for the club, subsequently it was revealed that the net revenue from the huts was used to offset other non revenue generating programs in the whites so overall white mountain programs were intentionally set up to be a loss to the club.

The club has spent a lot of money in the last year or two to improve the facilities at Camp Dodge with the intent to expand various programs. One reliable source claims that they have turned youth trail crew training programs into a net revenue maker. Various organizations fund these youth programs and AMC supplies, staff lodging and facilities at Camp Dodge. They also were planning to expand volunteer vacation options where guests pay to volunteer for the week. The club was also shifting staff and functions from Pinkham Notch to Camp Dodge but did not disclose what operations would fill the new vacancies at Pinkham. This was disclosed during the non adversarial permit modifications to the Camp Dodge special use permit a few years ago. I do not know if the upgrade is complete and if the programs were ramped up yet. I expect that like the decision to shut the huts down, this is a net revenue drain if they delay until next year.

There is also the concept of donor management and fatigue. AMC in the past had a rather poor reputation of repeatedly hitting up their membership for donations. Over the years I have run into many people who are now former members due to repeated calls for donations on a frequent basis, memberships were practically given away as a means of developing a donor list. I know of a couple if people who formerly would make annual donations and then would be harassed for more donations. I hope they are now managing their requests better, but their past reputation is probably hard to live down. An event like CV-19 is a perfect opportunity for a fund raising campaign. One of the tricks to drive major donors to write big checks is make it sound like its a major crisis that can only be solved with help from the big donors. Since the only information most members receive is effectively pro club propaganda approved by management there is not a lot of fair and objective information to the members.

 

[Mike P.]

I never felt actual pressure from a call or letter seeking donations. A fact that Superpacs saying they are figureheads from one party haven't figured out as they text me saying they will 4X and 5X my donation. Environmental groups and other groups I might consider donating to or the other party and others haven't sent me these texts

 

[jniehof]

Years ago, a nephew of mine wanted to volunteer to do trail work for the AMC; we were surprised to see how much it cost to, essentially, donate time and trail labor, even beyond simple room and board.

I found that weird. I did a week on trail crew for the Continental Divide Trail Association. Absolutely free out of pocket; they fed us. Cooks on site, hot breakfast and dinner, trail lunch. Absolutely fantastic. Even had a keg of beer onsite--the CDTA staffer had come down a couple of days early to panhandle around and a brewery donated the keg.

They went under less than a year later. That sort of changed my perspective on the whole thing.

 

[peakbagger]

It does cost money to have a "volunteer" program, I expect the overhead is high and much of the money available these days is on a cost sharing basis. Generally the non profit can use payments in kind to offset their cost share. Included in payments in kind is volunteer hours. Anyone volunteering for work for a non profit is generally asked to sign in or do trip report. Those hours are totaled up and doled out to cover payments in kind. I do not know the current hourly rate assigned per volunteer hour but this is important part of the bookkeeping for a non profit. One thing with overhead is usually the cost is lot easier to deal with when spread across more people, therefore expansion of organized volunteer opportunities is logical approach.

As I have commented and others with trail maintenance background have observed to me, the problem is the general transfer of what were paid or long term volunteer positions to "volunteers of the week" is degradation in the quality of the trail work done. When parties need to be transported back and forth to Camp Dodge or some other base camp on a daily basis, the effectiveness of the time spent and the extent of repairs are going to be far lower than a trained paid crew that sets up in a remote location and only heads out once a week. I expect griphoist 101 is not part of the agenda for youth at risk volunteer trail crew weeks and even expect its not a typical event for adult crews as the level of skill and stamina takes a lot longer than a week to develop. Given my recent redlining excursions in the last few years, its obvious that even basic trail maintenance is lacking in the more remote trails and there does seem to be some inverse connection between the trail conditions and distance from Camp Dodge.

 

[Raven]

Interesting conversation about the cost of volunteering.

I was the trail adopter for the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail for 7 years. I chose to volunteer for the USFS as opposed to AMC for that very reason. I'm not paying to volunteer. I'm happy to donate time, gas, my tool use, clothing, and some skin, but I'm not going to pay money in order to then have the privilege of helping you. I found volunteering through the USFS to do trail work to be very rewarding and I was never asked to pay. I was provided some tools to use and a very healthy dose of gratitude.

There are costs associated with all volunteer programs. One example is the USFS Trailhead Stewards. Volunteers give their time, voices, and knowledge. But they need tents, tee shirts, and gloves to set themselves apart at the TH and for the minimal physical work and protection associated with set up, clean up of the area, etc.

There's a cost to those materials. The volunteers don't pay it. To date, it's paid for in large part by people who have been part of a search and rescue in NH and donate to the New Hampshire Outdoor Council. It's a pretty good example of how things come full circle in the White Mountains IMO and how those people using the services in the Whites are paying for services in the Whites, how money given from those rescued is being used to directly prevent future rescues. Anyway, I think it's a sustainable volunteer model. Here's a link to the council's new page. (disclosure: I volunteer to push a pencil for the NHOC periodically since I don't push a volunteer fire rake much anymore).

https://nhoutdoorcouncil.org/

 

[Rainman]

Interesting conversation about the cost of volunteering.

I chose to volunteer for the USFS as opposed to AMC for that very reason. I'm not paying to volunteer.

https://nhoutdoorcouncil.org/

Just to be clear, no one has to pay to adopt a trail for AMC. I have been doing it for many years, and have never been asked for funds. AMC does provide tools, and will also provide accommodations for an adopter if needed (the night before or after a full day of trail work).
The pay to play trail work opportunities are for week long “vacations” out of Camp Dodge.

 

[Raven]

Just to be clear, no one has to pay to adopt a trail for AMC. I have been doing it for many years, and have never been asked for funds. AMC does provide tools, and will also provide accommodations for an adopter if needed (the night before or after a full day of trail work).
The pay to play trail work opportunities are for week long “vacations” out of Camp Dodge.

Thank you for the clarification as you are correct. They only charge some of their volunteers.

I also found it very easy to volunteer for USFS. Surprisingly, there was not much bureaucracy or paperwork.

 

[skiguy]

Thank you for the clarification as you are correct. They only charge some of their volunteers.

Thankyou also for the clarification. It would be a lot easier to donate to the AMC's crying for money right now if they were to clarify where the need was and where the donation was being channeled.

 

[JoshandBaron]

where the donation was being channeled.

Probably more window decals.

 

[peakbagger]

In most cases, donations unless restricted go to unglamorous things like HVAC, office supplies staff salaries, benefits and leases. Folks don't want to contribute to things like that as they don't get the brass plaque on the front wall. Up until recently, I don't think a campaign to buy toilet paper for the office rest rooms would bring in lot of dollars Declare a fundraiser for a new hut like Crystal Cascade and the club claimed they already had plenty donors lined up to build it once approved. One of the standard accounting tricks that non profits play is they add a project management fee to the amount to be raised for a capital campaign and then they fund a general operations position in the project management. Reportedly that's how some of the Maine projects staffing was paid for. I wonder if it may be the reason that the new BSP director moved on from AMC once the capital campaigns were over? As long as there is ongoing capital expansion its not an issue but if the capital projects run out and the non profit has to run a facility from regular revenue they can not afford it. Talk to any land protection land trust manager and they rarely have issues raising the money to buy and protect land but they are always squeezed paying for onoing perpetual management they incur. More than few land trusts are "land rich" but "cash poor". Endowments are supposed to be set up to cover ongoing expenses but I expect if push comes to shove, that funding is probably a painfully tempting target.

 

[jniehof]

Thankyou also for the clarification. It would be a lot easier to donate to the AMC's crying for money right now if they were to clarify where the need was and where the donation was being channeled.

You can absolutely designate your gift. Call 'em up and ask for it to go to the trails budget, if that's where your heart is.

 

[jniehof]

(disclosure: I volunteer to push a pencil for the NHOC periodically since I don't push a volunteer fire rake much anymore).

Much appreciated. NHOC is seriously underrecognized.

 

[B the Hiker]

Just to be clear, no one has to pay to adopt a trail for AMC. I have been doing it for many years, and have never been asked for funds. AMC does provide tools, and will also provide accommodations for an adopter if needed (the night before or after a full day of trail work).
The pay to play trail work opportunities are for week long “vacations” out of Camp Dodge.

Thank you for volunteering! Your time is greatly appreciated. Thank you also for supporting the AMC. The AMC is a powerful and important environmental organization that protects the White Mountains in ways few outsiders understand or appreciate. We would not be able to hike in the manner that we do without the AMC and all the work its volunteers put in, and the Whites would not be the special place they are without the protections the AMC provides.