AMC Executive Director pay

[David Metsky]

They do no cater to hikers - they cater to wealthy eco-tourists. If you happen to be a wealthy eco-tourist, you probably LOVE the AMC.

The AMC is many things:
- it's a focal point for large donations and major land conservation initiatives like up in Maine,
- it's an education and lobbying organization,
- it's a collection of local outdoors enthusiasts who run trips (dozens every weekend) out of their own pocket because they enjoy doing so,
- it's people helping others by running low cost workshops and social events for those who want to explore but don't know how,
- it donates money to environmental causes at all ends of the scale
- it's a provider of lodging options in the White Mountains and throughout New England that range in scope from campsites to luxurious lodges
- it's an organizer of relatively expensive, well-led international excursions
- it's a publisher of guidebooks, maps, and books on many outdoors topics
- it's a maintainer of trails, shelters, and huts
- it's a big, sometimes unwieldy organization full of people who are used to doing things their way

IMO, you are looking at a few very visible things and ignoring large parts of the organization. It's not uncommon, Joy St (what we call AMC Corporate) gets far more attention than the chapters. It makes the biggest splash and gets the majority of the applause or abuse. But it also makes the work of the chapters possible.

The AMC is not without it's faults. There are many issues that upset me on a near daily basis with the way Corporate and the Chapters go about their tasks, but I have no doubt that on the whole the AMC does far more good in the world.

It's not for everyone, that's fine. But I often find that the people who bash the organization aren't really clear on what it does.

 

[Peaks]

Executive pay: Let's remember that AMC is a multi-million dollar budget and a large payroll to manage. It's not a job for amateurs. Although the CEO pay is huge, he's keeping AMC financially solvent, and that's important.

Charging for trail work: If you don't like it, then there are plenty of other options. Join a chapter trail work trip, or do trail work for another organization. There's plenty of them around. (That's what I do.) Or adopt a trail directly from the USFS.

Price of lodging, trips, and everything else: We all have options. AMC isn't here to provide cut rate lodging or trips for the common folk who frequently post on this website. Many of us go elsewhere.

 

[giggy]

correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the thread was more about the non response than the pay...??

I actually agree...thats fair pay for the work and area - no doubt.

 

[Neil]

How much does the Randolph Mountain Club president get paid?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Dave makes some excellent points above.

This summer I was trudging along, beginning a long day up a volcanic peak in Oregon, thinking about the latest AMC Joy Street craziness which had my shorts all bunched up, and then it struck me - some of my very closest and most trusted friends, with whom I've had some of the greatest times, would not be in my life had it not been for the AMC. My association with the AMC, for all the heartburn I've allowed it to cause me, has made my life very much richer.

I also know this - it's much easier to change an organization from the inside. There's little chance anyone will pay much attention to you unless/until you're on the inside, helping with some of the heavy lifting.

How much does the Randolph Mountain Club president get paid?

Dunno, but I think he gets first crack at the blueberries Cath planted ...

 

[Gillian]

Personally I used to be a member...but it seems to me now, especially since the Highland center, it's all about big business and money. So, thankfully I can choose and won't be lining the pockets of this "non-profit". There's lots of organizations out there which are better caretakers of the environment IMHO and I'll stick with them.

 

[Quietman]

How much does the Randolph Mountain Club president get paid?

Nothing, he is a volunteer according to the website.

 

[Neil]

Nothing, he is a volunteer according to the website.

Does that explain, partially only of course, the cost of a night at Grey Knob versus, say Madison hut?

(I met Neil Young at Crag Camp and Neil Diamond at Madison Hut.)

 

[bikehikeskifish]

How much does the Randolph Mountain Club president get paid?

What is the Randolph Mountain Club's charter? Budget? Goals? Employee Count? Property ownership? ...

Not really a fair comparison.

Any sufficiently large organization will have friends and non-friends (let's call them) in nearly equal proportions.

Tim
p.s. I have been the president of a MA non-profit corporation so I have very small amount of experience with this. I got paid $0 (I got free membership, worth $25/year), we had an annual budget in the range of $15-$25K, and 250 +/- members.

 

[caleb]

Brian -

I'm glad that you see no point in this discussion, but considering some of the responses so far, there are several people on this site that disagree with you. And considering that VFTT is a Discussion Board, I think this is a perfectly appropriate place to have open dialog. Like, for instance, you could post about some of the things that the AMC does do for free.

Meanwhile, I could post that the AMC charges over $100 for people to join them on trail maintenance trips. Or that they charge excessively high prices at "their" mountain huts build on federal land. Or that they chose to remove a perfectly functional bunk room at Crawford Notch and replace it with a palace.

My problem isn't with the fact that the President makes so much money. As has been pointed out, he gets paid on par for the organization. My problem is that the AMC is the kind of organization that requires a President that makes 300K. The AMC is a big machine and much of what they do is centered around feeding that machine.

They do no cater to hikers - they cater to wealthy eco-tourists. If you happen to be a wealthy eco-tourist, you probably LOVE the AMC. Sure, the do some very good things. But any bloated, self-serving organization can site the good things that they have done. I just happen to believe they do much more harm than good. I would trade the MATC for the AMC any day.

Well said. My relationship with the AMC ended 2 yrs ago after I griped to Boston about a winter caretaker.. (the guy was unbelievably offensive and sexist to my gf and believe me neither of us are shrinking violets). Anyway, I got no response from the AMC. Zip. And that's when I knew...I was dealing with a Leviathan, a beast too big to be concerned with any single member. Nowadays that 70$ kick goes to support a village in Kenya.

 

[Stan]

... Anyway, I got no response from the AMC.

This theme comes up a few times. Has anyone pursued their complaints through Chapter Ombudsmen? I've known a few of them and they seem like persistent and fair people and wondered if they are helpful for such matters.

As for the fairness of Executive Director compensation, I expect he has skills in areas that most of us cannot identify with: recruiting and utilizing the expertise and fundraising abilities of an impressive volunteer board of directors, major fundraising, lobbying for environmental initiatives, planning and implementing large scale strategic initiatives such as the North Maine Woods, which regardless of how one views the details, is an impressive accomplishment that avoids many of the mistakes the AMC made in New Hampshire.

I would no sooner criticize the salary of the E.D. of the AMC than I would the hourly rate of a plumber, laborer or computer jock ... supply and demand ... you make your choices of who you pay for what, or perhaps go without.

I'd prefer not to go without the AMC though I do think they need to address the Corporate Ivory Tower complaints lest they really start to lose a certain grassroots over the long term ... or perhaps they don't care.

As for supporting a project in Kenya, I prefer to keep my resources closer to home where there is no less a pressing need and I can keep a closer eye on how it is used.

 

[David Metsky]

Does that explain, partially only of course, the cost of a night at Grey Knob versus, say Madison hut?

Does it explain why the AMC huts are full nearly the entire summer and you can often have Crag Camp to yourself? Does it explain why the RMC doesn't take thousands of inner city youth into the woods every year for education and recreation like the AMC does? Does it explain why the RMC isn't helping to preserve 100,000 acres in Maine from developers? You're comparing apples and oranges here, they offer different experiences to different audiences.

It's easy to bash the AMC (and there are good reasons to) but asking why they aren't more like the RMC is a poor comparison. They have different purposes and different audiences and if you aren't aligned with the AMC's purpose that's fine. I would never begrudge anyone that.

OK, I've said my piece, I'll stay quiet on this for a while.

 

[arghman]

(I met Neil Young at Crag Camp and Neil Diamond at Madison Hut.)

(alpine convention of Neils?)

My problem isn't with the fact that the President makes so much money. As has been pointed out, he gets paid on par for the organization. My problem is that the AMC is the kind of organization that requires a President that makes 300K. The AMC is a big machine and much of what they do is centered around feeding that machine.

ditto. When I first heard about the Maine Woods Initiative, I was thrilled and made a donation. Now it's just shoved in our face in the magazine too much (Stay at our Camp X in the Maine Wilderness!!!), and really leaves a sour taste in my mouth... I just don't like the high profile advertising and campaigning that AMC has been up to in the last decade or so (maybe it's been longer, I joined in 1999 or 2000). I'm a member of a number of good conservation organizations, some are smaller, some (Nature Conservancy) are larger, and none of them puts as much "spin" on events to its members as AMC does. I don't like it; I wish they'd knock it off and just get down to work and be a bit more plainspoken.

But (as others have said) this forum isn't the place to make changes, working within the chapters -- which I vastly prefer to Joy St -- is, I hope.

 

[Mike P.]

The larger Non-profits also do a fair share of lobbying. (AMC, Sierra, WWF, etc) Last time I checked the folks in Washington don't listen to the one well intentioned letter from someone who likes the woods but isn't willing to contribute to maintaining trails. Last week, if you wanted to meet Joe Biden in CT, as he campaigned for Chris Dodd, that luncheon was $500. Anyone see what Oil, Coal, timber, lawyers, drug companies etc are paying for lobbyist in DC? While I have to agree paying to do trail maintenance seems silly, (possibly offensive), if the AMC didn't do any maintenaince, there would be far less trails up north & much harder to follow. The USFS does not have the $$ or bodies.

Since so many of you are mountain masters & stewards based on your VFTT reputaion, that's not a concern to any of you who never get lost - but some beginner hikers need more help than you do. - BTW, over on the AMC site there is a thread dicussing whether a private BBS is a diverse group of hikers or an elitest website. (it all depends on you POV)

If you want to keep beginners out of the woods, keep them as playgrounds for only the hardcore, as the older hikers die off, the non-hikers will decide wind farms, south facing slopes covered in solar collectors, & local wood products are better use of the WM"N"F. (one could argue it would benefit the whole "nation" better as 770,000 acres of turbines, solar collectors & local wood products & would put a dent into our energy needs) Then the National Guard can stop doing SAR on those few people who don't know 100MPH winds & white outs are not fit for man or beast - Couldn't resist the Rudolph line )

What would the fragile vegetation look like if no one repeatedly kept telling the newer hikers to stay off the vegetation. Without the AMC & RMC, would there be a Weeks act? This won't be the first time I've said this but both the RMC & AMC's roots go back to people who had the ability to take a week or more off from work, ride the train from the city & explore. The poor, worked six days a week 120 - 90 years ago. On day seven they went to Church & had dinner & rested because they were exhausted. Mallory & Irvine won't poor hippies.

Most of you people whining about an AMC Salary have access to a computer, free time to post here, a car that brings you up north fairly often at $2.70 or so a gallon, (I don't see many 8-10 Kia's, Hyundia's, old Ford Escorts, Geo Metro's etc at the trailheads, plenty of under 5 year old SUV's, Prius' Subaru's, Lexus', Acura's etc) you work one job to support your family or you & your SO work but you are not working 80 hours a week to leave in a tiny dark company owned flat. Some of you fly all over the country & the world to trek, climb, vacation or watch your team play a game. (Poor people don't Those kids the AMC brings up to the Whites, that's the best vacation those kids have had in many cases & they'll remember that the rest of their lives, which may be short. I need a spreadsheet to see where I hiked last November.)

How many of you are below the poverty line? Anyone know what the poverty line is? How many of you qualified for free school lunches? Gov't cheese, food stamps? We're all pretty fortunate. Have we had a poll here, make it private if you want to see what our annual household salaries are? If you live with Mom & Dad, use their salary. Feel that bad about the AMC, feel free not to use the trails they maintain, they have'nt suggested that yet.

I'll need more cheese to read more of your whines.

Flaming Rant over, for now.

 

[arghman]

right, we're getting a little off topic here, what with the mini-flame war....

just to underscore the point that Chomp made, and I agree with, it's not the fact that Falendar makes $300K that bothers me. Rather, that high salary seems to be one of many symptoms of "flashiness" that the AMC has, that I -- as a member -- would like to see decreased rather than increased.

 

[Stash]

Golly, folks. Wasn't the originally post simply about trying to get a response from the organization? Talk about your thread. . . . . drift..

 

[cooperhill]

I have many issues with the AMC and emphasize with the frustration of non-responses to emails. I don't like what the AMC's done with Joe Dodge Lodge and how expensive their lodging is.

I don't, however, have an issue with paying for trail work. I'm one of those people that does pay for week long trail work trips. I learn a lot and get to work on some great projects that I probably wouldn't otherwise. Also, the money goes to pay for meals and lodging-lodging not so great but the meals are. If the revenue doesn't directly go to pay for the paid "pro" trails crew, staff, and trip leaders - even if indirectly - its worth it. Both volunteer and paid (AMC, USFS, and local groups) do some great work and both paid and volunteer are necessary to keep the trails in shape.

I know I'm a bit off topic but isn't that what VFTT is all about?

 

[Tom Rankin]

I have many issues with the AMC and emphasize with the frustration of non-responses to emails...

I don't, however, have an issue with paying for trail work. I'm one of those people that does pay for week long trail work trips. I learn a lot and get to work on some great projects that I probably wouldn't otherwise. Also, the money goes to pay for meals and lodging-lodging not so great but the meals are. If the revenue doesn't directly go to pay for the paid "pro" trails crew, staff, and trip leaders - even if indirectly - its worth it.

Now this $100.00 makes a LOT more sense!

And I assume you are 'empathizing', not emphasizing right? Although either way works!

 

[--M.]

Things to like, things needing improvement....

However, it is unprofessional not to respond to correspondents, any (reasonably respectful) correspondents, especially those being solicited for membership renewal. An organization that just blows off people looking for response deserves to lose market-share.

I hope someone in the central office of the AMC sees that this phenomenon is not isolated.

As learned in a goofy kids'-show commercial,
"Manners matter, because they show you care."

 

[Maddy]

I have many issues with the AMC and emphasize with the frustration of non-responses to emails. I don't like what the AMC's done with Joe Dodge Lodge and how expensive their lodging is.

Wondering what you changes you are referring to at JDL? Not trying to give you grief, just curious.

I did notice that they charge an additional $25 per night for a private room but declined that. My room did stay private for my 3 night stay midweek during peak foliage. I noticed several other solo folks and their rooms stayed private to. They didn't just pile us all into one room because we didn't pay the money. I know if they ever did that I would never return. It's one thing if the place if full but when there are spare rooms, it's nice to just have your own spot.
It was better than camping 3 days in the rain and the food was wonderful. The cost was tolerable with the AMC member discount.

I would love to have the old PNBC back, which many of you never got to experience, but it's never going to happen so for the moment I try to live with this one.
If it ever becomes another HC...sayanara.

I wonder if they ever try to hire an exec director for less money. There has to be some really smart person out there who would do the job for less, or maybe not. So many people are highly educated, have good experience and cannot find work. Just a thought.