Ammonoosuc in the winter

[Raven]

I climbed Monroe this way in the fall a few years back, I think I remember a lot of water on rock, has anyone used this trail in winter to climb Monroe? Is it reasonable to climb in the winter?

I think this has been answered well in the thread but to add a comment, Ammo Ravine can be very easy or very challenging in winter and is a trail that can change drastically depending on conditions. Last week, it had spots needing front pointing on the steeps; these are in the mile from Gem Pool to LOC Hut. This is the section that presents a winter challenge. With good snow cover, it is often a snowshoe trip with a fun buttslide down. With no snow and glare ice in its place, it becomes a potentially dangerous ravine hike with the potential for some really bad falls.

If you check trail conditons carefully leading up to the time you are planning, you will get a good idea of what to expect.

Personally, I think Lions Head in winter has a couple spots that can be trickier, but I don't want to downplay Ammo Ravine by saying that. On any given day, it's one of those trails.

The nice thing about the trail is that you are protected from the wind and weather to a degree until the hut and then have 0.3 to 0.4 miles to the summit (there are one or two steep spots up the summit cone on the Monroe Loop as well).

Have fun! Ammo Ravine is the usually the "easiest" way to Monroe if all else is equal.

 

[marysgirl]

I thank all of you for your input. I did go out from Crawford last Sunday and went over Pierce and Ike, the weather was moving in and I bailed down Edmunds. I kick myself in the butt for not just grabbing Monroe, but I wasn't sure how fast that weather was moving and didn't want to take the chance of getting caught up there! Just FYI, Edmunds is/was an ICY mess! A group of 3 guys had come up it just before we went down and packed down the snow just enough for it to mask the ice below, but the snow was too thin to help us keep our footing, it just helped our feet (with microspikes) to turn into little slick snow cones. As I stated in my trip report my feet came up chest high and I landed all my weight on my shoulder and am blessed I didn't hit my head! So I can totally agree with going up ice being much easier than going down it! With no left arm to hold myself up on poles I ended up taking most of my trip down Edmunds in the trees and snow to avoid the ice! It was long but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do!
So with all of this being said anyone want to go up Ammo to grab Monroe send me a message!! No hurry, I have until 3/20/2014!!
THANKS EVERYONE!!

 

[DayTrip]

Thanks for the detail Barkingcat. I have taken that trail several times in summer so I'm familiar with it in good conditions. I actually much prefer it to get up to Eisenhower because the Crawford Path just sees too many people when it's nice. I like to run into people on occasion but when a trail feels crowded I'm not a big fan. (It's not Mount Monadnock on a weekend but it certainly sees plenty of foot traffic).

The "side hill" section you are referring to: Is that where the trail starts winding around the summit cone and you get glimpses through the trees of Mount Washington Hotel and mountains in distance? I remember it being a steep fall off to one side but also remember plenty of trees and scrub there too. I wouldn't have expected it to be a tricky area. Is it tricky in snow too or just when it is icy?

Also, you mentioned that it can be hard to spot coming down. From what I remember you can see that trail from miles away as it wraps around the base of the cone. Is the snow that significant there that the obvious track is buried going into the trees? Obviously in foul weather spotting anything above treeline is a problem but I'd think in reasonable weather it would be fairly visible from the low area around Red Pond or whatever pond that is in the scrub where all the trails converge.

I'd only be contemplating the extra walk to Monroe on a favorable weather day and would only take Edmands Path if weather turned unexpectedly. Just seemed like a safer way to get Monroe than the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail. Seems far too much potential for trouble on that trail, particularly for someone like me who has only done about a dozen winter hikes.

 

[DayTrip]

Everything I hear and read, DayTrip, is that the brook crossing on Edmands and the part just uphill of it, at about 4200', is an icy mess in winter, calling often for crampons and maybe ice axe.

Ah you're right! I was sitting here wondering what brook crossing you were talking about and couldn't jolt my memory. I remember it now. That is a tricky area. Even when the rocks are just wet it is awkward. Glad you pointed that out.

 

[RoySwkr]

Just make sure you don't go through the ice. Sometimes there is a considerable distance between the ice and snow and the stream bed and if you go through and get sucked down it won't be fun. The risque is obviously greater if you are following a stream bed and not just crossing it.

Another sad story here. A few years back, a guy was reported lost on Mt Washington in winter and a couple kids from the Obs decided to check Lakes Hut. They found him holed up in the Dungeon where he wanted to stay, but they insisted he needed to be rescued and had to go down Ammo as he couldn't make it up to the summit. Somebody else will have to fill in the details but apparently they had route-finding troubles and various of them fell in the brook. One kid wound up with serious frostbite and the victim wasn't even grateful, saying he would have been better off spending the night in the Dungeon and moving on the next day.

 

[Mike P.]

The "side hill" section you are referring to: Is that where the trail starts winding around the summit cone and you get glimpses through the trees of Mount Washington Hotel and mountains in distance? I remember it being a steep fall off to one side but also remember plenty of trees and scrub there too. I wouldn't have expected it to be a tricky area. Is it tricky in snow too or just when it is icy?

Also, you mentioned that it can be hard to spot coming down. From what I remember you can see that trail from miles away as it wraps around the base of the cone. Is the snow that significant there that the obvious track is buried going into the trees? Obviously in foul weather spotting anything above treeline is a problem but I'd think in reasonable weather it would be fairly visible from the low area around Red Pond or whatever pond that is in the scrub where all the trails converge.

I'd only be contemplating the extra walk to Monroe on a favorable weather day and would only take Edmands Path if weather turned unexpectedly. Just seemed like a safer way to get Monroe than the Ammonoosuc Ravine Trail. Seems far too much potential for trouble on that trail, particularly for someone like me who has only done about a dozen winter hikes.

The trees you refer too are only 6-8 feet tall which allow those views. In winter they will help hold the snow in place so they may only be a couple of feet above the top of the snow and covered resembling rocks. Up there the scrub the cairns and the rocks can start to look alike.

On my trip up North Twin, opted for North Twin on a cold windy day planning on being protected from the wind by the 6-10 foot trees along much of the ridge just exposed at the couple of view ledges in summer. The ridge had 5-6 feet of snow on it making those trees effectively 1-4 feet. My knees were warm but the cover I had expected was not what I got. The actual summit area only had a couple of feet so we had shelter there.

The choice I guess is exposure Vs. Ice & how well the trail may be broken out. Edmands shouldn't have as much ice as Ammo but it likely will not be as broken out either. I'd opt for the ice but then I know the trail well, like ice & have done it twice in late November and twice in winter.

 

[BobC]

After seeing a person almost slide to certain death a few years ago on the Ammo Ravine trail (snowy conditions in May), this post interests me since I have no desire to descend that trail again in the snow. I still need to do Monroe thru Washington in winter. Using the route mentioned by bikehikeskifish (and adding Washington to the hike) sounds like a good idea, but how hard is it to find the upper part of the Jewell trail in winter? I've heard it can be tough to locate where it heads into the trees.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

... how hard is it to find the upper part of the Jewell trail in winter? I've heard it can be tough to locate where it heads into the trees.

I have heard it can be tough too, but I've always found it, even w/o referring to the GPS. It is on top of a ridge, so you could criss-cross that until you hit the trail.

Tim

 

[sierra]

Alot of great info here so Ill just add my 2 cents. The Ammou is a great example of a trail where micro-spikes are not enough. I wouldnt think of climbing it without my crampons. Also, the Edmonds is not a trail I would use to descend in the winter, unless I was positive is was tracked out, I do not like descending routes that are not tracked out but thats just me, routefinding through deep snow is both strenuous as hell and way to time consuming for me. As far as Monroe from the crawford path via Pierce and Ike, thats a long route and you need good weather and time, I think while technically harder the Ammou is a safer route to Monroe overall.

 

[Mike P.]

After seeing a person almost slide to certain death a few years ago on the Ammo Ravine trail (snowy conditions in May), this post interests me since I have no desire to descend that trail again in the snow. I still need to do Monroe thru Washington in winter. Using the route mentioned by bikehikeskifish (and adding Washington to the hike) sounds like a good idea, but how hard is it to find the upper part of the Jewell trail in winter? I've heard it can be tough to locate where it heads into the trees.

May snow, were they wearing crampons? May can be warm causing snow to ball up on crampons, on a cold winter day should not be an issue and just requires being aware of the snow conditions.

The carins are not the largest on Jewell, (nothing like some of the bigger ones but bigger than Watson Path) & the fact the trail zig-zags makes it easier to find and lose if you miss a cairn. In good weather, it should be easy, the question is how easy are the cairns to follow in bad weather.

 

[Rainman]

the question is how easy are the cairns to follow in bad weather.

As for Jewell trail, as the trail approaches the trees it runs through krumholz for quite a ways. There are no cairns in this section, and it can be impossible to follow once the snow fills the void in the scrub. You really do need to know where the trail enters the trees, as it is not visible from above.

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

As for Jewell trail, as the trail approaches the trees it runs through krumholz for quite a ways. There are no cairns in this section, and it can be impossible to follow once the snow fills the void in the scrub. You really do need to know where the trail enters the trees, as it is not visible from above.

These are the coordinates I have for the viewpoint right at the entrance into the trees on that trail: N 44*17.018 W 71*19.485 WGS84

 

[BobC]

May snow, were they wearing crampons? May can be warm causing snow to ball up on crampons, on a cold winter day should not be an issue and just requires being aware of the snow conditions.

The carins are not the largest on Jewell, (nothing like some of the bigger ones but bigger than Watson Path) & the fact the trail zig-zags makes it easier to find and lose if you miss a cairn. In good weather, it should be easy, the question is how easy are the cairns to follow in bad weather.

The person that fell was only wearing Stabilicers and she wasn't heavy enough for them to dig into the snow too well. There were in fact two falls that were nearly fatal within a few minutes of each other; in one, there was only one last tree between her and a slide into the ravine, and luckily she was able to use it to stop her slide. It affected me so much, I almost gave up hiking altogether after that day and have feared the Ammo Ravine trail in snowy conditions ever since. Of course, it's probably an unreasonable fear, because clearly Stabilicers are from from adequate, and with the right gear the risk of course is far less.

 

[Driver8]

These are the coordinates I have for the viewpoint right at the entrance into the trees on that trail: N 44*17.018 W 71*19.485 WGS84

That's the spot. I guess the Jewell, even if well hiked, gets drifted in a lot, so the path gets hidden as with sands in the wind-swept desert.

 

[Mike P.]

The person that fell was only wearing Stabilicers and she wasn't heavy enough for them to dig into the snow too well. There were in fact two falls that were nearly fatal within a few minutes of each other; in one, there was only one last tree between her and a slide into the ravine, and luckily she was able to use it to stop her slide. It affected me so much, I almost gave up hiking altogether after that day and have feared the Ammo Ravine trail in snowy conditions ever since. Of course, it's probably an unreasonable fear, because clearly Stabilicers are from from adequate, and with the right gear the risk of course is far less.

In soft snow crampons will ball up with snow also and can become slick. A warm sunny day on a snowfield can be tough, it's more of a west coast thing, I've read about some shasta sliding mishaps.