Another Falling Waters Loop Fatality

[peakbagger]

Allegedly, some Friends of Tuckerman's members on a particular dangerous day would ask for name and next of kin explaining that it would make it easier to deal with the body. I have never seen confirmation of this so it could be hearsay propagated by frustrated rescue folks.

 

[skiguy]

While true, you don't know what you don't know until you need to know it. Or it's also been said, that It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you think you know what's true that simply isn't true that will cause chaos.

I know I have the attention span of a squirrel (that may be insulting to squirrels) so with a spreadsheet up I see I've been on 553 summits over 3,000 feet. (in CO, I dug a deep hole to get to 3,000) Over 100 more easily over 2K based on times to Wachsett, Bear (CT), Bare, Tom and Norowtuck, (those are 1K) Race, Everett, and others in Southern New England plus Potash, Willard, etc.) Do I know my stuff or have I been lucky all this time? (Hiking in a Tropical Storm and almost falling asleep driving home from BSP would hint that luck has come into play at least twice) Admitting you really know your stuff is probably the first step toward hubris. (You probably need to answer yes to a few more questions before you really are suffering from hubris)

Interesting you use the word hubris. Seems that is exactly what the folks whom are unprepared and relying on a cell phone are exhibiting.

 

[skiguy]

In 2001, I moved the manager's office at Monadnock State Park to the trailhead for the White Dot Trail so I could keep an eye on more hikers to try to head off so many responses (the previous manager had his office down at his residence so he could keep an eye on his kids). I used the office until 2008 and tried every method and technique of communication available to communicate stark realities to people with only limited success. The stories are too many, but I have stood there and told moderately experienced hikers exactly what would happen to them if they decided to go above treeline in present conditions (in great detail), only to have them play out the horror that I exactly described would happen to them.
I accompanied Ken Holmes on the first leg of his final hike and tried to convince him that the XC skis I was on were more fun, and he should change his plans and come on a ski trip with me, and that he really only had a 50/50 chance of completing his loop; but he was going anyways.

As long as there are mountains here, there will be dead hikers sometimes. I am fascinated by this powerful draw that the mountains have on people including myself.

I'll tell the one most effective intervention that would play out at Monadnock was when we would try our best to convince a group of hikers that their plans are a bad idea; and you could not get through to them and more than once out of frustration made a big display of writing down their vehicle plate #, and names of occupants, and flatly stating something along the lines of "Well, since you guys are telling me you are so amazing that none of these things will happen to you. And since me and my crew are so exhausted from so many rescue responses that we really could use some rest. That if we get a report that you guys are in trouble, or if your car is here well after dark, we won't come to help you......right....cause you guys are telling me you are so amazing and all these things are not going to happen with you?...."

This actually worked once and a while with someone coming back over to us to ask if we were really not going to respond if they called for a rescue. But of course, the ones who were brazen and ignored all warnings and made it out fine would have to stop and tell you this and what a jerk and know- nothing they think you are.

Kudos to you for dealing with that.

 

[DayTrip]

on a particular dangerous day would ask for name and next of kin explaining that it would make it easier to deal with the body.

I like it. I really like it.

 

[ChrisB]

Alas, we are not alone in the cell phone / rescue conundrum.

Here's a story about the hiker cell phone problem in Old England. The Lake District SAR had over 600 callouts in 2022!

 

[Salty]

Great, thought provoking, respectful thread. I love it.

And then there's my 2 cents. You can put up a big barrier saying trail closed, and people will walk right around it. You can try to educate people, and they will ignore it. There's really nothing to do, IMO. Closing trails for the greater good doesn't really ring well with me, for reasons already mentioned. Why should I be punished for being sensible? If you're that stupid, and you die before you're rescued? Oh well. Sorry to be blasé about it, but what can you really do? It's about personal responsibility.

The only thing that irritates me about all this is putting SAR and NHFG at risk finding these idiots vs. people who truly had an accident. How long before we get another Albert Dow?

Sigh....


P.S., Joe, I've never seen you angry. Well, except for the Vose Spur debacle.

 

[peakbagger]

BTW, the forecast looks from afar to be real nice next couple of days to do the loop. No doubt the lots will be full and the majority will be underequipped and surprised that there is snow and ice on the ridge as there is not any down south.

 

[rocket21]

We're not going to regulate our way out of stupidity. I think our focus should be on protecting Search and Rescue but not dispatching them at the drop of a hat in dangerous conditions.

 

[^MtnMike^]

Man whose body found in White Mountains on Christmas latest in troubling trend of lone hikers

"While tragic deaths of young hikers have drawn more attention in recent years, officials said, there has not been an increase in fatalities. Li’s death marked the 21st hiking fatality of the year for New Hampshire, making 2022 consistent with the past four years, which saw an average of roughly 22 fatalities per year, officials said."

"Despite rising concern, hiking rescues and fatalities in recent years have remained fairly consistent with pre-pandemic numbers. As of mid-December, the Fish and Game mountain team have conducted 168 rescues this year, a slight decrease from last year, when the team performed 183 rescues. There were 173 rescues in 2020, and 168 in 2019, according to officials.

"In [total rescue] missions, we’re maintaining fairly steady numbers. And with some of these recent fatalities, we’re quickly approaching our average,” Kneeland said. “Unfortunately the last couple have been a 19- and a 28-year-old… [and] with the age, they’ve gained a lot more notoriety, which makes it sound like there’s been a lot more."

What an awful piece of journalism. The headline isn't even supported by the facts detailed in the body of the article (and excerpted above).
But maybe I'm just defensive because as a (primarily) solo hiker I'm apparently part of the "troubling trend".

 

[sierra]

What an awful piece of journalism. The headline isn't even supported by the facts detailed in the body of the article (and excerpted above).
But maybe I'm just defensive because as a (primarily) solo hiker I'm apparently part of the "troubling trend".

I was talking to someone in Lincoln the other day and they told me, the guy on Little Haystack committed suicide. I thought I had heard that from someone else before as well. If that is the case, it doesn't even influence the statistics at all, a completely separate and benign category. Soloists are not only not a "troubling trend" we are likely better prepared and more experienced than most groups. The problem is, the mainstream civilians and news media think it's suicidal to hike alone, complete ignorance of their part.

 

[DayTrip]

I was talking to someone in Lincoln the other day and they told me, the guy on Little Haystack committed suicide.

Really? That would seem odd. You're talking about the Christmas Eve guy from China? Why would he finish most of the loop in that weather, give his family an app to track him, etc if that was his goal? Suppose anything is possible and we probably will never learn the truth on that but it seems strange to me.

 

[Grey J]

The notion that solo hiking is more dangerous or "part of a troubling trend" that is leading to fatalities is just ridiculous and has been debunked here time and time again. Bad weather, bad decisions, and bad luck can all be contributing factors to a disaster, but none surpass unpreparedness in its many forms. The two guys in Ty Gagne's latest book, The Last Traverse, got in trouble together and the more experienced hiker who was leading the hike ended up dying as a result. He did not die because he was alone. He died because he did not turn back when any reasonable person would have done so.

 

[DougPaul]

The notion that solo hiking is more dangerous or "part of a troubling trend" that is leading to fatalities is just ridiculous and has been debunked here time and time again.

Group dynamics can increase the risk. All too often, no individual is willing to be the spoiler (or chicken) suggesting the group should turn back.

Doug

 

[B the Hiker]

Group dynamics can increase the risk. All too often, no individual is willing to be the spoiler (or chicken) suggesting the group should turn back.

Doug

I'm sorry, but I have been on this list for two decades now, and for two decades solo hikers have denied the simple fact that hiking with others is safer than hiking alone. It leads to better decision making, to the ability of another to catch an error, or to spot hypothermia, or to aid someone who has gotten injured. Groups lead to better decision-making that someone who is hiking alone.

 

[B the Hiker]

BTW, the forecast looks from afar to be real nice next couple of days to do the loop. No doubt the lots will be full and the majority will be underequipped and surprised that there is snow and ice on the ridge as there is not any down south.

A friend and I hiked the loop on Monday, January 2, 2023. Saw tons of well-equipped folks. Then a guy with no hat(!) who said he got turned around on Lafayette, a young man in a sweatshirt, folks at the huyt trying to de-thaw their water tubes, and a shocking number of people with tiny little bags who would be in very big trouble if something went wrong, having literally no spare gear whatsoever.

 

[maineguy]

I'm sorry, but I have been on this list for two decades now, and for two decades solo hikers have denied the simple fact that hiking with others is safer than hiking alone. It leads to better decision making, to the ability of another to catch an error, or to spot hypothermia, or to aid someone who has gotten injured. Groups lead to better decision-making that someone who is hiking alone.

This theory didn't work out so well for James Osborne and Fred Fredrickson on Franconia Ridge did it? For that matter, not for Jeremy Haas and Derick Tinkham in the Presidentials. Nor for Hugh Herr and Jeff Batzer in the Great Gulf.

Solo Hiker Deniers indeed...

Late edit: Sorry PB, I edited my post without seeing yours concerning Haas and Tinkham

 

[peakbagger]

Jeremy Hass and Derek Tinkham

 

[^MtnMike^]

I'm sorry, but I have been on this list for two decades now, and for two decades solo hikers have denied the simple fact that hiking with others is safer than hiking alone. It leads to better decision making, to the ability of another to catch an error, or to spot hypothermia, or to aid someone who has gotten injured. Groups lead to better decision-making that someone who is hiking alone.

Other ways to make hiking "safer":

• Not hiking far from a major road.
• Not hiking on trails with rough terrain and/or exposure.
• Not hiking in the winter.

There are many ways of enjoying an activity that might not be as "safe" as other ways of enjoying the same activity. Safety on the trails involves a lot of factors and it's not as simple as saying any choice that makes a hike less safe is automatically irresponsible.
Some of us understand these risks, accept them and attempt to offset them in other ways (detailed itineraries, scaling back the difficulty of a hike, extra gear/preparation, etc.) - why? Because the experience of hiking alone is very different from the experience of hiking with a partner, and some of us find the reward worth the risk.
That was my only point.

 

[DayTrip]

I think the definition of "safer" is the distinction. Does "safer" mean better decision making? Reduced probability of a negative event? Better chance of a positive outcome after a negative event? I hike alone 99% of the time and the only thing about being "safer" in a group to me is the better possibility of a positive outcome - which could be a huge factor or negligible depending on who that person/people are that are with me.

I think it has been thoroughly chronicled here and elsewhere that the number of people in a party does not ensure either better decision making or reduced probability of a negative outcome. There are many solo and group incidents demonstrating this. But you can't ignore the fact that having multiple people in a group could -could, but does not guarantee - improve the probability of a positive outcome to a negative event, providing they have the training, experience, equipment and judgement to do so.

So yes I think a group is "safer" relatively speaking. I think most people get angry over this because it is being implied (or in B The Hiker's reply explicitly stated) that being alone means you make bad/worse decisions, are more at risk, are not as prepared, etc and somehow magically being with more than 1 person eliminates this, which I would totally disagree with.

If I fall, hit my head and knock myself out and I'm alone I'm probably in trouble. But I may have better chances of being OK if I'm with another person and they know first aid. Or they could panic, run for help and leave me there to do die. So if I'm with 2 other people, theoretically one of the 2 people would know first aid so even if the other one panics I might still be OK, etc, etc.

 

[briarpatch]

What is the general guidance for a Franconia Ridge Loop in the winter - Clockwise or Counter Clockwise? I would assume counter clockwise, climb Falling Waters and descend Greenleaf to Old Bridle Path. My assumption is based on the potential difficulties one could encounter descending Falling Waters. The itinerary for the last two fatalities appears to have been a clockwise loop.

In winter conditions is it difficult to follow Greenleaf back into the trees while descending down to the hut from Lafayette and locating Falling Water is relatively easy to locate on Little Haystack? Is this a factor to consider for a clockwise recommendation? Was wind direction a factor in the clockwise plans?