Another Falling Waters Loop Fatality

[nartreb]

What is the general guidance for a Franconia Ridge Loop in the winter - Clockwise or Counter Clockwise? I would assume counter clockwise, climb Falling Waters and descend Greenleaf to Old Bridle Path. My assumption is based on the potential difficulties one could encounter descending Falling Waters. The itinerary for the last two fatalities appears to have been a clockwise loop.

In winter conditions is it difficult to follow Greenleaf back into the trees while descending down to the hut from Lafayette and locating Falling Water is relatively easy to locate on Little Haystack? Is this a factor to consider for a clockwise recommendation? Was wind direction a factor in the clockwise plans?

As you suggest, going up Falling Waters has the obvious advantage of getting the most difficult, steep, icy, potentially dangerous (icefall and rockfall are not unknown) section out of the way early when one is fresh and clear-minded, and retracing one's steps if needed is easy. This would be my preference if I haven't scouted Falling Waters lately, or I wasn't completely sure of my (or a companion's) ability or equipment on icy steeps (e.g., microspikes instead of full crampons).

Finding the trail into treeline from either Haystack or the summit of Lafayette can be challenging in bad weather. Lafayette has a large above-treeline area, the trail wiggles repeatedly, and you've got to stay on it a long time before you reach the woods. Haystack is a much smaller area to search but the trail is not always obvious in winter, and Falling Waters' entrance into the trees in particular isn't hard to miss.

The wind is often from the north, making a clockwise loop more comfortable. A clockwise loop also gets most of the elevation (and often the worst weather and visibility) out of the way early.

Another consideration is that if you do get disoriented on top of Lafayette, you are likely to have a poor outcome. If you miss the turn to Greenleaf Hut, your next chance is to find Skookumchuck trail (which means going over the north peak). If you miss that too, you end up heading north and east toward Garfield - staying high on the ridge and mostly exposed to the wind. Off-trail options are worse: cliffs on the west, untracked wilderness on the east.

Whereas if you miss the Falling Waters trail, you can keep going a short distance (south and downhill) and be rather confident of finding the trail that takes you to Liberty, whence you can descend via Liberty Spring trail. This is a significant detour, of course, but it's all below treeline - it's very easy to follow the trail and it's somewhat sheltered.

 

[skiguy]

As you suggest, going up Falling Waters has the obvious advantage of getting the most difficult, steep, icy, potentially dangerous (icefall and rockfall are not unknown) section out of the way early when one is fresh and clear-minded, and retracing one's steps if needed is easy. This would be my preference if I haven't scouted Falling Waters lately, or I wasn't completely sure of my (or a companion's) ability or equipment on icy steeps (e.g., microspikes instead of full crampons).

Finding the trail into treeline from either Haystack or the summit of Lafayette can be challenging in bad weather. Lafayette has a large above-treeline area, the trail wiggles repeatedly, and you've got to stay on it a long time before you reach the woods. Haystack is a much smaller area to search but the trail is not always obvious in winter, and Falling Waters' entrance into the trees in particular isn't hard to miss.

The wind is often from the north, making a clockwise loop more comfortable. A clockwise loop also gets most of the elevation (and often the worst weather and visibility) out of the way early.

Another consideration is that if you do get disoriented on top of Lafayette, you are likely to have a poor outcome. If you miss the turn to Greenleaf Hut, your next chance is to find Skookumchuck trail (which means going over the north peak). If you miss that too, you end up heading north and east toward Garfield - staying high on the ridge and mostly exposed to the wind. Off-trail options are worse: cliffs on the west, untracked wilderness on the east.

Whereas if you miss the Falling Waters trail, you can keep going a short distance (south and downhill) and be rather confident of finding the trail that takes you to Liberty, whence you can descend via Liberty Spring trail. This is a significant detour, of course, but it's all below treeline - it's very easy to follow the trail and it's somewhat sheltered.

Most excellent Summary. I agree on all points. I would add obviously to check the weather. But more importantly is to have a clear understanding of the timing of the weather and how that correlates to your position of that timing.

 

[sierra]

I'm sorry, but I have been on this list for two decades now, and for two decades solo hikers have denied the simple fact that hiking with others is safer than hiking alone. It leads to better decision making, to the ability of another to catch an error, or to spot hypothermia, or to aid someone who has gotten injured. Groups lead to better decision-making that someone who is hiking alone.

I couldn't disagree more. You could always check with the Donner party.

 

[skiguy]

I'm sorry, but I have been on this list for two decades now, and for two decades solo hikers have denied the simple fact that hiking with others is safer than hiking alone. It leads to better decision making, to the ability of another to catch an error, or to spot hypothermia, or to aid someone who has gotten injured. Groups lead to better decision-making that someone who is hiking alone.

Nothing to be sorry about. Some here have been on the list for more than twice that time. Just because someone is a soloist doesn't mean they are in denial. Trying to define a rigid and general paradigm about groups that soloist should be following is a slippery slope. I'm with Doug Paul. For instance, the large groups like AMC trips you see IMO are more of a liability than a skilled soloist.

 

[hikerbrian]

I was talking to someone in Lincoln the other day and they told me, the guy on Little Haystack committed suicide.

Different person. So actually there were three fatalities in a short amount of time on that loop. The suicide got mentioned on FB because some folks came across the aftermath in one way or another, but it didn't make the media/press.

 

[dug]

I think one's personality has to be taken into account. Do you like being alone and use the time in the woods to gather your thoughts and just enjoy yourself? You likely aren't going to thrive in a group environment and quite possibly would cause problems? Timid and not willing to put yourself out there? A group setting would fit you well, and you could just follow and hope those in the front are doing it right. Yes, you can bounce ideas off each other with a partner, but that isn't necessarily a positive. You can easily not want to pipe up for fear of looking like you can't handle it. You could easily buy into someone else's excitement and do something you likely didn't intend to.

On some level, I could say I fit every one of those traits at some point of my life. I don't see how there is one 100% fullproof way of "doing it", despite some stringent opinions.

 

[skiguy]

On some level, I could say I fit every one of those traits at some point of my life. I don't see how there is one 100% fullproof way of "doing it", despite some stringent opinions.

Most excellent. I'm with you on this.

 

[BISCUT]

I am not in favor of any closures whatsoever. I think certain trailheads definitely need better signage warning of the potential dangers. Outside of that, it's just not realistic to stop well prepared hikers from hiking, because strangers who are unprepared decide to go on a hike ignorantly. That may sound harsh, but I've spent my whole life preparing and training to do what I do, to tell me I have to stay home, because some guy flew in from China on a whim, is unacceptable. We all live, and we all will die, some of that is luck, some of that is how we choose to live. If I drove to the coast and decided to swim to Europe and drowned, I wouldn't expect the authorities to close the beaches. Social media is becoming the Bain of society and I plant most of these deaths and rescues squarely on that medium.

Thank you for your post. This horrible tragedy should not result in a restriction of my or any other hikers' access. I'm grateful if I ever am in need the members of SAR are willing to save my arse. I will do my part and be reasonably prepared for the potential hazards. The current signage is plenty clear. Disregarding it is at your own peril. There comes a point of personal responsibility.

 

[nartreb]

Most excellent Summary. I agree on all points. I would add obviously to check the weather. But more importantly is to have a clear understanding of the timing of the weather and how that correlates to your position of that timing.

I'm sure you know this, but for the sake of less-experienced people reading this: "the timing of the weather" is often rather different on the ridges compared to the valleys. If snow is due to start falling in Lincoln at noon, you should plan for near-whiteout conditions on the summit of Lafayette starting about 9AM.

 

[sierra]

Different person. So actually there were three fatalities in a short amount of time on that loop. The suicide got mentioned on FB because some folks came across the aftermath in one way or another, but it didn't make the media/press.

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Grey J]

I couldn't disagree more. You could always check with the Donner party.

Oh, that's a good one, Sierra. How did that one work out? Perhaps traveling with a companion or two might be counted as one of the 10 essentials?
As in "brought along extra food."
Forgive my twisted sense of humor.

 

[skiguy]

Oh, that's a good one, Sierra. How did that one work out? Perhaps traveling with a companion or two might be counted as one of the 10 essentials?
As in "brought along extra food."
Forgive my twisted sense of humor.

…………….

 

[Mike P.]

Oh, that's a good one, Sierra. How did that one work out? Perhaps traveling with a companion or two might be counted as one of the 10 essentials?
As in "brought along extra food."
Forgive my twisted sense of humor.

They actually have a Donner Party game, (which I own).

 

[Mike P.]

What is the general guidance for a Franconia Ridge Loop in the winter - Clockwise or Counter Clockwise? I would assume counter clockwise, climb Falling Waters and descend Greenleaf to Old Bridle Path. My assumption is based on the potential difficulties one could encounter descending Falling Waters. The itinerary for the last two fatalities appears to have been a clockwise loop.

In winter conditions is it difficult to follow Greenleaf back into the trees while descending down to the hut from Lafayette and locating Falling Water is relatively easy to locate on Little Haystack? Is this a factor to consider for a clockwise recommendation? Was wind direction a factor in the clockwise plans?

This really depends on what you think are your better qualities or liabilities. In winter I much prefer going up OBP/Greenleaf than Falling Waters. In poor visibility, getting down from Lafayette and finding where the trail enters the trees can be difficult and people do end up off trail and in the drainages, including at least one, former, VFTT member. The Cairns are small and trail switchbacks several times. The worst wind often comes from the N, NW or some WNW component. You can make an assessment of conditions at Greenleaf at 4200 Ft. which is better than assessing out of the trees almost at Little Haystack. Getting back into the trees from Little Haystack is easier, either staying on FRT (which is pretty ledgey and would be harder than descending Falling Water.), or preferably down Falling Waters.

Descending "The Agonies" on the OBP wouldn't be a picnic either.

 

[Mike P.]

Regarding the whole safer solo or with someone, that depends on skill levels, decision making and whether people are equals or is someone the leader and the other follower. In Tinkham and Haas, they were not equals and Derek wasn't going to say anything regarding turning back. He trusted his partner would lookout for him better. Jeremy didn't notice Derek was in trouble until it was way too late. Much like Kate M., they were in a place no one should been in that day.

Over the course of many years here, I've hiked with several people here. At times, I would have trusted a couple of you more than myself as I had a bit of summit fever and a couple of VFTT'ers I would have felt comfortable turning back on and not feeling guilty that you were summit bound.

Now if I fall, having someone there would be nice, however, If there are two people, there is a greater chance one will fall and depending on experience and comfort using the winter gear, that may not be a 50/50 of which one is more apt to fall. If the terrain is steep enough for glissading, it's possible the uphill hill hiker falls and takes the downhill hiker for a ride.

If I was going someplace I'd never been and was doing it for the first time, a second might be nice, however, for the last few years, I've only been to new places in winter on lower, easier hikes. (Green Hills, Mt. Katherine, Hedgehog, If I was going to do Jefferson via the Castellated Ridge - I wouldn't in winter - I'd probably want an experienced partner.)

 

[DayTrip]

If I was going someplace I'd never been and was doing it for the first time, a second might be nice,

I agree. I always feel more comfortable when I am somewhere I've never been before for the 2nd or 3rd time....

 

[sierra]

This really depends on what you think are your better qualities or liabilities. In winter I much prefer going up OBP/Greenleaf than Falling Waters. In poor visibility, getting down from Lafayette and finding where the trail enters the trees can be difficult and people do end up off trail and in the drainages, including at least one, former, VFTT member. The Cairns are small and trail switchbacks several times. The worst wind often comes from the N, NW or some WNW component. You can make an assessment of conditions at Greenleaf at 4200 Ft. which is better than assessing out of the trees almost at Little Haystack. Getting back into the trees from Little Haystack is easier, either staying on FRT (which is pretty ledgey and would be harder than descending Falling Water.), or preferably down Falling Waters.

Descending "The Agonies" on the OBP wouldn't be a picnic either.

Descending Agony ridge is not that difficult at all, it's grade is less than Falling Waters trail. I actually prefer ascending FW as there is more chance of objective dangers given the river crossings, (unless is full winter) and it's a fairly steep climb up past Shining Rock spur to the top. I'd rather assess the ridge conditions from Little Haystack, some days, in bad conditions, I would simply go right and head to Liberty if I deemed the ridge out of question. As for the turn off Lafeyette's summit? I find it easy to make for two reasons, one it's a fairly small summit and you can immediately tell if you're starting to descend, the turn itself is due west, I mean if you had too, a simple compass peek is all you need. I do see why beginners fail there, as they have not even rudimentary skills to observe all these idiosyncrasies. I will concede that the winds can be strong from the NW and you will face them descending from Lafeyette, so to be fair, most of these concerns can dictate someone's personal preference as to the direction they take the loop. I have about 75 ascents of the ridge loop, so I speak from significant experience on it. The ridge can be nasty, but most of its reputation is received from inexperienced people who really shouldn't be on it in the winter. This is all just my personal opinion.

 

[DayTrip]

Descending Agony ridge is not that difficult at all, it's grade is less than Falling Waters trail. I actually prefer ascending FW as there is more chance of objective dangers given the river crossings, (unless is full winter) and it's a fairly steep climb up past Shining Rock spur to the top. I'd rather assess the ridge conditions from Little Haystack, some days, in bad conditions, I would simply go right and head to Liberty if I deemed the ridge out of question. As for the turn off Lafeyette's summit? I find it easy to make for two reasons, one it's a fairly small summit and you can immediately tell if you're starting to descend, the turn itself is due west, I mean if you had too, a simple compass peek is all you need. I do see why beginners fail there, as they have not even rudimentary skills to observe all these idiosyncrasies. I will concede that the winds can be strong from the NW and you will face them descending from Lafeyette, so to be fair, most of these concerns can dictate someone's personal preference as to the direction they take the loop. I have about 75 ascents of the ridge loop, so I speak from significant experience on it. The ridge can be nasty, but most of its reputation is received from inexperienced people who really shouldn't be on it in the winter. This is all just my personal opinion.

I don't have anywhere near that many ascents of the loop but I've always done FW first, regardless of the weather. The lower sections of FW feels like the dangerous place to me - slick ledges and rocks, water crossings, eroded terrain, roots, etc. Most accidents (not fatalities) seem to always be in that section. Maybe it's my lack of loop experience too but I think the entry into the trees from Little Haystack is more difficult to spot. If I was behind schedule, fatigued, hypothermic, etc I don't think I'd want to be descending FW or looking for that opening in the trees.

Several people mentioned continuing to Liberty as an option and I don't really think so. The drop off Little Haystack to the col has a really steep section with some good scrambles and that mile or so stretch to the Liberty Trail junction with recent snow is pretty much invisible. Simple open woods cruise with a compass but you could be breaking trail too. Not a good scenario if your condition is deteriorating.

 

[sierra]

I don't have anywhere near that many ascents of the loop but I've always done FW first, regardless of the weather. The lower sections of FW feels like the dangerous place to me - slick ledges and rocks, water crossings, eroded terrain, roots, etc. Most accidents (not fatalities) seem to always be in that section. Maybe it's my lack of loop experience too but I think the entry into the trees from Little Haystack is more difficult to spot. If I was behind schedule, fatigued, hypothermic, etc I don't think I'd want to be descending FW or looking for that opening in the trees.

Several people mentioned continuing to Liberty as an option and I don't really think so. The drop off Little Haystack to the col has a really steep section with some good scrambles and that mile or so stretch to the Liberty Trail junction with recent snow is pretty much invisible. Simple open woods cruise with a compass but you could be breaking trail too. Not a good scenario if your condition is deteriorating.

Once in the spring, I did it clockwise. Upon reaching the stream under Cloudland Falls, the water was so fast, there was no way I could cross. I had to follow the stream down and found a tree to cross on. It was slimy and slippery, I had to hang on for all I was worth. Thank God it was pre-dog days for me, or I would have had to keep bushwhacking down, which is not easy in those woods in rotten snow.

 

[Mike P.]

Descending Agony ridge is not that difficult at all, it's grade is less than Falling Waters trail. I actually prefer ascending FW as there is more chance of objective dangers given the river crossings, (unless is full winter) and it's a fairly steep climb up past Shining Rock spur to the top. I'd rather assess the ridge conditions from Little Haystack, some days, in bad conditions, I would simply go right and head to Liberty if I deemed the ridge out of question. As for the turn off Lafeyette's summit? I find it easy to make for two reasons, one it's a fairly small summit and you can immediately tell if you're starting to descend, the turn itself is due west, I mean if you had too, a simple compass peek is all you need. I do see why beginners fail there, as they have not even rudimentary skills to observe all these idiosyncrasies. I will concede that the winds can be strong from the NW and you will face them descending from Lafeyette, so to be fair, most of these concerns can dictate someone's personal preference as to the direction they take the loop. I have about 75 ascents of the ridge loop, so I speak from significant experience on it. The ridge can be nasty, but most of its reputation is received from inexperienced people who really shouldn't be on it in the winter. This is all just my personal opinion.

Yes, the initial turn on the Greenleaf Trail leaves due west, however, there are several turns from that point to where it enters the treeline and the cairns are not that large and in poor visibility those turns can be missed My personal choice if the weather may be iffy is to evaluate if I even want to be on the ridge from Greenleaf instead of the end of the ridge. High water would be an issue however, that crossing in full winter is crossed on ice and normal winter flow isn't bad. FW isn't technical or as steep, IMO as going North on the AT down Garfield, South Twin obviously Flume Slide. (Which should only be descended by the highly experienced who, because they are highly experienced, likely wouldn't.)