Another lost hiker search - Madison Gulf

[DayTrip]

I would respectfully disagree that the majority of winter rescues result from experienced climbers pushing beyond their limits, I have no hard data, but those incidents are not that common. It's more related to hikers getting in over their head ie. lacking the skillset to be out there in certain conditions. A lot of rescues in the summer result from getting benighted or losing the trail, both a direct result of a weak skillset. A guide I used to climb with, introduced me to the term " Intelligent Risk Management'' In a nutshell, it is the managing of a climb from start to finish to minimize the risk you expose yourself too. Summer brings must less risk, that's why so many inexperienced hikers come away unscathed, BUT not all. This group on Madison Gulf is a perfect example. Tough route, late in the day, worsening weather, all risk that combined to up the anti until they were overwhelmed. A more experienced team could have come up with a number of solutions that would have prevented the need for a rescue. Do you need a wealth of knowledge to hike in the summer? I guess not because many hike without it and like you say Get away without it. But if you look at each rescue in detail, outside of a physical injury ( broken bone) the lack of knowledge or skillset is the root cause.

You may be right on the Winter rescues. I have no hard data either but it seems like most of the publicized rescues (fatalities and nasty accidents) in recent years were very experienced hikers (Kate Mastrova, the guide they found in Castle Ravine, the extreme skier in King Ravine a few years ago). And most of the Winter rescues seem to be people that had the proper gear but underestimated the weather. So if they had the gear it would seem they at least did a minimal amount of research to know what to expect and what they would need for it. I suppose I'm missing some of the less publicized ones.

It is too bad there isn't a definitive source of recorded incidents and root cause listed. I would think some very definitive patterns would be visible about time of day, time of year, experience, gear, etc, etc. This is a fascinating topic for me as a hiker. I suppose it isn't unique to hiking though, just a general population phenomenon. How many people buy a chain saw to cut a tree down and then drop it on their house or take a hand off because they didn't look into how it operates. I suppose as a percentage of chain saw owners that is a low number too but it is the same thing.

And to your emphasis on reemphasizing experience I hope I'm not painting the picture that I don't think it matters. I'm just saying that whether it is needed or not is situational. When the probability of an incident increases for any given event, proper knowledge dramatically increases the chances of a favorable outcome. The Madison Gulf incident sounds like one that could have been easily avoided with a little knowledge and/or common sense.

 

[DayTrip]

I think there is also a delineation between "search" and "rescue". Rescuing is often utilizing volunteers, and while difficult (I've helped before), it's not necessarily costly. Also to your point, ATV accidents are a motor vehicle accident, so it's hauling someone out and in most cases, there's a road so the haul is easier to rescue.

The search aspect of a lost hiker (or, lost person anywhere in the state) I would think is the most costly, and the most irritating for most. Seems many times it would be preventable with some knowledge. Gaining that knowledge is the challenge.

I would think a rescue is more often an accident that could happen to anyone at anytime, so draws less ire.

That is a good distinction between "search" and "rescue". An experienced, knowledgeable hiker with the proper gear probably almost never needs assistance to get out of the woods whereas even the best of hikers, knowledgeable and preparedand doing nothing wrong can get injured and need help to get out of the woods.

 

[sierra]

You may be right on the Winter rescues. I have no hard data either but it seems like most of the publicized rescues (fatalities and nasty accidents) in recent years were very experienced hikers (Kate Mastrova, the guide they found in Castle Ravine, the extreme skier in King Ravine a few years ago). And most of the Winter rescues seem to be people that had the proper gear but underestimated the weather. So if they had the gear it would seem they at least did a minimal amount of research to know what to expect and what they would need for it. I suppose I'm missing some of the less publicized ones.

It is too bad there isn't a definitive source of recorded incidents and root cause listed. I would think some very definitive patterns would be visible about time of day, time of year, experience, gear, etc, etc. This is a fascinating topic for me as a hiker. I suppose it isn't unique to hiking though, just a general population phenomenon. How many people buy a chain saw to cut a tree down and then drop it on their house or take a hand off because they didn't look into how it operates. I suppose as a percentage of chain saw owners that is a low number too but it is the same thing.

And to your emphasis on reemphasizing experience I hope I'm not painting the picture that I don't think it matters. I'm just saying that whether it is needed or not is situational. When the probability of an incident increases for any given event, proper knowledge dramatically increases the chances of a favorable outcome. The Madison Gulf incident sounds like one that could have been easily avoided with a little knowledge and/or common sense.

In regards to Kate, I believe she simply underestimated the conditions and she got in too deep. The guide you mentioned was a strange case and I could not see a root cause, given his experience, I think he had a medical issue, but I could be wrong. It just seemed like given his last location, descent was very possible, but not being there, speculation is all we have.

 

[DayTrip]

In regards to Kate, I believe she simply underestimated the conditions and she got in too deep. The guide you mentioned was a strange case and I could not see a root cause, given his experience, I think he had a medical issue, but I could be wrong. It just seemed like given his last location, descent was very possible, but not being there, speculation is all we have.

Weather is definitely the number one risk factor that impacts the probabilities of so many other things happening. It's so important yet so many give it minimal or no consideration. I watch a lot of You Tube documentaries on the elite climbers and it is amazing how even climbers at that level ignore the weather due to summit fever.

 

[dug]

I wouldn't call it ignoring, per se. More of a minimizing the effects, or maximizing one's abilities. In Kate's case, IMO, she knew what was coming and was, dare I say...somewhat glad? If she was training for high peaks to get herself used to that type of weather, the only way to do it is to experience it. Looked like a good opportunity to experience high-altitude type weather and still only be a few miles from safety.

 

[sierra]

I wouldn't call it ignoring, per se. More of a minimizing the effects, or maximizing one's abilities. In Kate's case, IMO, she knew what was coming and was, dare I say...somewhat glad? If she was training for high peaks to get herself used to that type of weather, the only way to do it is to experience it. Looked like a good opportunity to experience high-altitude type weather and still only be a few miles from safety.

Very interesting point and I would say you might just be right. That being said, even if those exact conditions were on a high peak in some famous range, without fixed ropes and a high altitude suit, it was too tough to advance.

 

[sardog1]

It's closer to 1 rescue every other day on average. Over the past five years, the average number of missions has been 180+/year in NH..

I don't have time right now to run this to earth, but I'm pretty sure that number includes all SAR responses by F&G statewide, which means it includes everything from snowshoers wandering in error onto the Dry River Trail to Alzheimer's cases in Salem.

 

[Raven]

I don't have time right now to run this to earth, but I'm pretty sure that number includes all SAR responses by F&G statewide, which means it includes everything from snowshoers wandering in error onto the Dry River Trail to Alzheimer's cases in Salem.

Yes, those numbers are for every case in the state led by F&G for which a report is generated. Thanks - good to point out that this is a range of incidents and also includes the entire state of NH, and would even include the yearly dive team missions in there. I am not sure what the numbers are involving actual hikers or other subgroups. My suspicion is that hikers represent the largest single group and that the WMNF is the most common area for incidents.