I'n hoping to upgrade my current winter hiking boots (plastic) for a more COMFORTABLE model. They need to be "step in crampon compatable" but will be used mostly for hiking the 4000 footers (no ice climbing). I've seen several great boots on the internet that look like they would be a good upgrade - but I was hoping others on this board might have some first hand experience to share. I was also seriously considering the Scarpa Freney XT Model - has anyone tested these? Thanks in advance for any input
Another Winter Boot Question?
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TCD
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If you are not planning any climbing, my advice would be to get the softest crampon compatible boot you can. You can get some bargains if you know you don't need stiff boot. I use a bargain pair of Trezzetas I picked up for $110 from Sierra Trading Post for all my crampon travel, including vertical ice, and they're great. Right now, STP has a pair of Vasque crampon compatible mountaineering boots for $100. Softer is also often warmer, because your feet can move around a little and get circulation.
TCD
TCD
shadowcat
New member
The boot Guru 
Here's a few pair to look at that are on sale right now. All are great boots, depending on how heavy duty you want to go. I've also tossed in 3 pair that take semi-automatic stepins.
Sierra Trading Has these:
Lowa Alpine Guides - take a semi-auto - reg 230 / sale 149
(i have these boots and they are really comfortable; not overly stiff at all. i wear them all yr round except i do have insulated boots i switch to when it's frigid out)
Asolo MTF 700 - take a semi-auto - reg 275 / sale 140
(i've seen these - real nice boot- stiffer then the lowa's)
Montail Morraines - take a semiauto - reg 260/ sale 129
Lasportiva Eigers - fully auto - 275 / sale 150
Lasportiva Lhotse - fully auto - 325 / sale 170
Asolo Guida PLASTICS - fully auto - 350 / sale 210 (just tossed those in cuz a few folks wear plastic) unlike me, I just use it
Also sometimes mountaingear.com has good deals also.
Good luck!
Here's a few pair to look at that are on sale right now. All are great boots, depending on how heavy duty you want to go. I've also tossed in 3 pair that take semi-automatic stepins.
Sierra Trading Has these:
Lowa Alpine Guides - take a semi-auto - reg 230 / sale 149
(i have these boots and they are really comfortable; not overly stiff at all. i wear them all yr round except i do have insulated boots i switch to when it's frigid out)
Asolo MTF 700 - take a semi-auto - reg 275 / sale 140
(i've seen these - real nice boot- stiffer then the lowa's)
Montail Morraines - take a semiauto - reg 260/ sale 129
Lasportiva Eigers - fully auto - 275 / sale 150
Lasportiva Lhotse - fully auto - 325 / sale 170
Asolo Guida PLASTICS - fully auto - 350 / sale 210 (just tossed those in cuz a few folks wear plastic) unlike me, I just use it
Also sometimes mountaingear.com has good deals also.
Good luck!
Shadow or anyone else,
Are the boots you list suitable for overnights in winter? From what I have heard, one either wants plastics or some type of pac boot with a removable liner?
I admit, this winter boot stuff, totally baffles me...
Are the boots you list suitable for overnights in winter? From what I have heard, one either wants plastics or some type of pac boot with a removable liner?
I admit, this winter boot stuff, totally baffles me...
shadowcat
New member
overnite question
re: your question on suitability for overnite winter use. well i know plastic boots are very warm & you can use the liner to sleep in. those asolos are plastic that i listed. you'd have to read the detail info on the lasportivas i know some of their boots are insulated but i don't know if either of those are. do you have to have a totally auto stepin crampon boot? if not, there's a larger selection of insulated hiking boots you can use either a universal/hybrid or semiauto crampon with plus have great hiking boot features. i've spouted off more than once on how warm my merrell winterras are; great for snowshoeing, hiking and w/those i use a universal crampon.
as far as the others i listed being good for overnite. it just depends on so many other factors; how cold it is out; how hot your feet get; how long you 'll be out for. some folks can wear an uninsulated boot all winter w/ a liner and thick socks bec their feet get so warm. others, like me need some insulation. all the boots i listed will definitely hold up to backpacking all day that's for sure. just depends what you like to wear. those lasportivas are worn up in altitudes much higher than we go into and very cold conditions so i imagine they work ok. you can also get an insulated gaitor but those can get pretty expensive. sometimes you can find insulated gaitors for less at places like cabelas.
re: your question on suitability for overnite winter use. well i know plastic boots are very warm & you can use the liner to sleep in. those asolos are plastic that i listed. you'd have to read the detail info on the lasportivas i know some of their boots are insulated but i don't know if either of those are. do you have to have a totally auto stepin crampon boot? if not, there's a larger selection of insulated hiking boots you can use either a universal/hybrid or semiauto crampon with plus have great hiking boot features. i've spouted off more than once on how warm my merrell winterras are; great for snowshoeing, hiking and w/those i use a universal crampon.
as far as the others i listed being good for overnite. it just depends on so many other factors; how cold it is out; how hot your feet get; how long you 'll be out for. some folks can wear an uninsulated boot all winter w/ a liner and thick socks bec their feet get so warm. others, like me need some insulation. all the boots i listed will definitely hold up to backpacking all day that's for sure. just depends what you like to wear. those lasportivas are worn up in altitudes much higher than we go into and very cold conditions so i imagine they work ok. you can also get an insulated gaitor but those can get pretty expensive. sometimes you can find insulated gaitors for less at places like cabelas.
I guess part of my confusion stems from my ignorance when it comes to crampons. I purchased a pair of new Grivel 10s on Ebay this year and I have no idea as to what type they are except that they are not insteps or snap on. Could these be used with, for example, the Winterras?
shadowcat
New member
Response to Grivel 10's
If your crampons are these: http://www.backcountry.com/store/GRV0005/c5/s12/Grivel-G10-Wide-Crampon.html?id=YKKa4Euw
then yes they would definitely fit the winterras. my friend who has the men's winterras uses the g-10's. note that the g-10's are the "wider" crampons. i don't know if they come in a regulare width or not. if the wider version, they work better with boots like the winterras, sorels, some of the bulkier winter boots from what i understand. but as you can see, they do not have any binding that would snap into a groove on a boot that takes stepins. they have the back and front straps that wrap around the boot which makes them universal. as long as you fit these correctly to your boot size they will stay in place and work wonderfully.
If your crampons are these: http://www.backcountry.com/store/GRV0005/c5/s12/Grivel-G10-Wide-Crampon.html?id=YKKa4Euw
then yes they would definitely fit the winterras. my friend who has the men's winterras uses the g-10's. note that the g-10's are the "wider" crampons. i don't know if they come in a regulare width or not. if the wider version, they work better with boots like the winterras, sorels, some of the bulkier winter boots from what i understand. but as you can see, they do not have any binding that would snap into a groove on a boot that takes stepins. they have the back and front straps that wrap around the boot which makes them universal. as long as you fit these correctly to your boot size they will stay in place and work wonderfully.
adamiata
New member
This may be a slight hijack but I didn't really think it warranted starting a new thread.
Are Sorels with removable liners sufficient for winter hiking, e.g. the 4Ks, provided I use a set of crampons? How about a set of insulated Timberland workboots with 2 pairs of wool socks? I ask because I have both of these boots and I'm not sure which I should really be using. Are these viable options or am I just revealing my ignorance?
I always sort of looked at my Sorels as kind of a throwback to my snowfort building and snowshoeing in the woods behind the house as kid thing. I never really considered hiking any real distance in them, though they are warm and do have planty of room for socks.
My Timberlands, on the other hand, tend serve as my year round work boot. They're much less cumbersome but tend to let water in after a while and don't have as much rooms for socks and tucking in long underwear.
Are Sorels with removable liners sufficient for winter hiking, e.g. the 4Ks, provided I use a set of crampons? How about a set of insulated Timberland workboots with 2 pairs of wool socks? I ask because I have both of these boots and I'm not sure which I should really be using. Are these viable options or am I just revealing my ignorance?
I always sort of looked at my Sorels as kind of a throwback to my snowfort building and snowshoeing in the woods behind the house as kid thing. I never really considered hiking any real distance in them, though they are warm and do have planty of room for socks.
My Timberlands, on the other hand, tend serve as my year round work boot. They're much less cumbersome but tend to let water in after a while and don't have as much rooms for socks and tucking in long underwear.
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Well, I lack practical experience to answer the question. However, I am partaking in the AMC "intro to winter hiking" program. At the initial meeting on gear, they said Sorel's with the removable liner are fine for anything to be done on the intro hikes - which include Mount Tom and, I think, Pierce.
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Adamiata,
I hiked for years with Sorels but for me they were only good on shorter hikes in benign conditions. Doing a couple of rocky and longer hikes a few years ago made mincemeat of my feet. The Sorels don't have a thick enough sole for the rocks and not enough support for the long miles.
Currently I wear Columbia Bugaboots for the short hikes and LaSportiva Glaciers for longer ones. I've been lurking and reading the plastic boot debate for a while but all these declarations of discomfort have put me off.
I almost got to the summit of Mt. Washington one winter in a pair of plastics but the pain was so great that I stopped at Tuckerman Junction with just a quarter mile to go. And I was motivated!
I hiked for years with Sorels but for me they were only good on shorter hikes in benign conditions. Doing a couple of rocky and longer hikes a few years ago made mincemeat of my feet. The Sorels don't have a thick enough sole for the rocks and not enough support for the long miles.
Currently I wear Columbia Bugaboots for the short hikes and LaSportiva Glaciers for longer ones. I've been lurking and reading the plastic boot debate for a while but all these declarations of discomfort have put me off.
I almost got to the summit of Mt. Washington one winter in a pair of plastics but the pain was so great that I stopped at Tuckerman Junction with just a quarter mile to go. And I was motivated!
John H Swanson
Active member
Sorels
I've climber all the 115 in winter (except 1 or 2) wearing Sorel Crusaders (with removable liners) and I'm now 75/115ths thru doing them a second time with my better half ... using Sorels. I'm not the first. So it definitely can be done. You have to make sure the sorels fit correctly. See a previous post. Start of shorter hikes and work your way up.
That said, don't blame me if your crampons pop off of your Sorels because you're using crampons not designed or fitted properly for the Sorels ... and don't even think about front pointing in them. So you'll always have to pick routes that don't require front pointing. Sound too restrictive or dangerous? Use plastics.
I would not use insulated timperland work boots, but if they work for you ...
Whatever you use, consider your situation if you have to spend the night out in them at -20F. Many people (with good circulation) use leather boots when it's not too cold. They assume the risk. Personally, I prefer to be able to "walk" into work on Monday or Tuesday. Not that I like work that much but not being able to walk does not make a good hiking experience.
JHS
I've climber all the 115 in winter (except 1 or 2) wearing Sorel Crusaders (with removable liners) and I'm now 75/115ths thru doing them a second time with my better half ... using Sorels. I'm not the first. So it definitely can be done. You have to make sure the sorels fit correctly. See a previous post. Start of shorter hikes and work your way up.
That said, don't blame me if your crampons pop off of your Sorels because you're using crampons not designed or fitted properly for the Sorels ... and don't even think about front pointing in them. So you'll always have to pick routes that don't require front pointing. Sound too restrictive or dangerous? Use plastics.
I would not use insulated timperland work boots, but if they work for you ...
Whatever you use, consider your situation if you have to spend the night out in them at -20F. Many people (with good circulation) use leather boots when it's not too cold. They assume the risk. Personally, I prefer to be able to "walk" into work on Monday or Tuesday. Not that I like work that much but not being able to walk does not make a good hiking experience.
JHS
adamiata
New member
Thanks for the advice. You've all been very helpful.
TCD
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I second John's discussion of Sorels. A properly fitted pac boot (Sorel, Kamik, etc.), if it is one of the heavily insulated ones like the Crusader or the Dominator, is THE warmest footwear available. It's warmer than plastics.
Watchouts, which have already been discussed here, I think:
They are very soft, so they dont protect your feet or offer much ankle support.
The rubber lower portion does not breathe, so moisture can build up. In the winter, regardless of your boot choice, you should always be ready for sock changes to stay dry, or use VBLs if they woirk for you.
Strap on crampons have to be properly fitted and attached. (But if they're done right, they're fine.)
Timberland Leather: Great boot, but I wouldn't push it into winter. Everyone's feet are different, but I would not want to have just those on a real winter trip. I've had to turn a party around before when one member had regular leather boots and got cold feet (it was about -10, which is not really bad).
(Here I go again advertising for NEOS: If you throw the insulated NEOS Navigator overshoe over those timberlands, you'll be bombproof.)
TCD
Watchouts, which have already been discussed here, I think:
They are very soft, so they dont protect your feet or offer much ankle support.
The rubber lower portion does not breathe, so moisture can build up. In the winter, regardless of your boot choice, you should always be ready for sock changes to stay dry, or use VBLs if they woirk for you.
Strap on crampons have to be properly fitted and attached. (But if they're done right, they're fine.)
Timberland Leather: Great boot, but I wouldn't push it into winter. Everyone's feet are different, but I would not want to have just those on a real winter trip. I've had to turn a party around before when one member had regular leather boots and got cold feet (it was about -10, which is not really bad).
(Here I go again advertising for NEOS: If you throw the insulated NEOS Navigator overshoe over those timberlands, you'll be bombproof.)
TCD
shadowcat
New member
re: boot size
reply to: "One more question - when sizing a winter boot do you all tend to go up a size or two?"
boy that's a tough one, whether winter, summer or yr-round boots. boot manufacturers designs can vary and you can try on boots of the same size but from diff manuf and they will all fit differently. add to that boots made in italy or euro sized boots. personally i have found boots like lasportiva to run quite small. based on my american size i would have taken a 36.5 in their boots but went up to a 38 in the glaciar to get a good fit. my merrells are a 6, my salomons a 5.5.
size is where you really do have to try on a boot. of course you do wear thicker sox in the winter so this has to be taken into consideration. and i've learned it's better for a boot to be a bit large then small by any means. you can "tweak" a boot that's a bit large but if it's too small you're going to be miserable. if a boot is specifically designed for winter i don't think you should have to go larger. but again it really just depends and i can't steer you either way in all honesty there's just too many variables. if you are going into a store bring the type of sox you'll be wearing (if you use your own inserts bring those also), try on a bunch of different manufacturers and see how each runs. then at least if you order off the internet you'll have a better idea. when i've found an awesome deal on a pr of boots i've been known to order 2 sizes to try, then return one pr.
i guess that's not much help huh?
reply to: "One more question - when sizing a winter boot do you all tend to go up a size or two?"
boy that's a tough one, whether winter, summer or yr-round boots. boot manufacturers designs can vary and you can try on boots of the same size but from diff manuf and they will all fit differently. add to that boots made in italy or euro sized boots. personally i have found boots like lasportiva to run quite small. based on my american size i would have taken a 36.5 in their boots but went up to a 38 in the glaciar to get a good fit. my merrells are a 6, my salomons a 5.5.
size is where you really do have to try on a boot. of course you do wear thicker sox in the winter so this has to be taken into consideration. and i've learned it's better for a boot to be a bit large then small by any means. you can "tweak" a boot that's a bit large but if it's too small you're going to be miserable. if a boot is specifically designed for winter i don't think you should have to go larger. but again it really just depends and i can't steer you either way in all honesty there's just too many variables. if you are going into a store bring the type of sox you'll be wearing (if you use your own inserts bring those also), try on a bunch of different manufacturers and see how each runs. then at least if you order off the internet you'll have a better idea. when i've found an awesome deal on a pr of boots i've been known to order 2 sizes to try, then return one pr.
i guess that's not much help huh?
Suebiscuit
New member
Freney XTs
Hey Shadowcat - In case you haven't found a new boot yet:
Having tried on many other brands (no one sells the full range of Vasques in the Boston area, so didn't try their wide boots), I just recently bought a pair of the Freney XTs. The front of my foot is wide and the Salomon Super9s I'd been wearing for a couple of years were making my toes cramp - no fun. Ever other boot I tried (about 7 different ones including the Koflach Degres everyone loves - all were too tight in the forefoot). The Freneys are nice and roomy - a little too much so in the heel, but after two wearings, am getting the fit dialed in. Wore them last weekend for the first time right out of the box on a VERY wet bushwhack. The leaked quickly, as I heard/suspected they would - I didn't have time to seal the many seams before this hike, but since have... conditions were dry yesterday, so didn't get to test the waterproofness again. They did dry out relatively quickly - my friend's leathers were still wet five days later. The bushwhack gave the boots a good twist, turn, multi-position test and they were great. Had them on for 7+ hours. Yesterday used crampons with them up Amoonosuc Ravine and over Monroe and Eisenhower and they were fine - the ankles are very flexible - have a hard time believing ice climbers would find that satisfactory, but for our hiking conditions, stiff enough, yet very comfy. We hiked out via Edmunds, so had a couple of miles to walk on paved road, and my feet were feeling fine by the time we got back to the car. Temps yesterday above treeline were high teens, low wind, so they haven't had the full-on cold test, but they seem plenty warm so far (I'm a freakishly warm person, though, so not the best of gauges). Haven't given them the overnight test yet either, but I was happy with the Salomons after 3 days/2 nights at +/-0 degrees, so expect they'll be OK (for me), especially since I can get a fluffier sock in these.
The inside fabric eyelets at the ankle have been biting a bit - put some padding under the eyelet which helped some yesterday. This a.m. I cut a plastic piece and stuck that underneath. Since the ankle fabric is space age silver, the duct tape securing it blends right in.
Anyway, so far so good. Hope they last given the hefty price tag, but beats paying a podiatrist.
Sue
Hey Shadowcat - In case you haven't found a new boot yet:
Having tried on many other brands (no one sells the full range of Vasques in the Boston area, so didn't try their wide boots), I just recently bought a pair of the Freney XTs. The front of my foot is wide and the Salomon Super9s I'd been wearing for a couple of years were making my toes cramp - no fun. Ever other boot I tried (about 7 different ones including the Koflach Degres everyone loves - all were too tight in the forefoot). The Freneys are nice and roomy - a little too much so in the heel, but after two wearings, am getting the fit dialed in. Wore them last weekend for the first time right out of the box on a VERY wet bushwhack. The leaked quickly, as I heard/suspected they would - I didn't have time to seal the many seams before this hike, but since have... conditions were dry yesterday, so didn't get to test the waterproofness again. They did dry out relatively quickly - my friend's leathers were still wet five days later. The bushwhack gave the boots a good twist, turn, multi-position test and they were great. Had them on for 7+ hours. Yesterday used crampons with them up Amoonosuc Ravine and over Monroe and Eisenhower and they were fine - the ankles are very flexible - have a hard time believing ice climbers would find that satisfactory, but for our hiking conditions, stiff enough, yet very comfy. We hiked out via Edmunds, so had a couple of miles to walk on paved road, and my feet were feeling fine by the time we got back to the car. Temps yesterday above treeline were high teens, low wind, so they haven't had the full-on cold test, but they seem plenty warm so far (I'm a freakishly warm person, though, so not the best of gauges). Haven't given them the overnight test yet either, but I was happy with the Salomons after 3 days/2 nights at +/-0 degrees, so expect they'll be OK (for me), especially since I can get a fluffier sock in these.
The inside fabric eyelets at the ankle have been biting a bit - put some padding under the eyelet which helped some yesterday. This a.m. I cut a plastic piece and stuck that underneath. Since the ankle fabric is space age silver, the duct tape securing it blends right in.
Anyway, so far so good. Hope they last given the hefty price tag, but beats paying a podiatrist.
Sue
shadowcat
New member
hey sue:
you mention a podiatrist - maybe we talked before but do you have a specific foot problem? ever since i started having pain in the ball of my foot i've been wearing both a metatarsal pad and wear a gel insert specific for that problem (but could be worn by anyone). in any case both sure make a hug difference. and then of course i have knee pain which started getting bad. as mentioned on another thread i now wear "cho-pat" knee supports. these are great really. not restrictive and nice support coming down the mountians where my knees would be killing me. as far as boots - well i could probably open my own store! i kept buying boots that wouldn't hurt but then found out it wan't the boot fault it was my feet so i have a "few" pair. i tend to lean towards more aggressive boots even for day hikes. i love a good thick sole like the vibram ice trek. i have the salamon adventure trek's which i would recommend but even those don't have a thick enough sole for me. my favorites are my asolo mtf 600 and lowa alpine guides. this time of the year when i may need a crampon i'll wear my vasque alpines which are convenient bec they take step-ins. the mtf's and lowa take a semi-auto crampon. i also grabbed the salomon pro ice for $60 as i'm taking a few ice climbing classes this winter & to rent the boots is $20 a pop so these will pay for themselves. the best part is i have been very fortunate in finding all my boots on sale, often as much as 80% off. it kind of concerns me that those freney's leak like that. i don't know how much you paid for them but that's not good. it's one thing to have to tweak a boot w/ an insert, an extra heel insert or creative lace tieing but you shouldn't have to deal w/ leaky boots ever! that's just not good. same w/ the eyelets cutting into your foot. it just sounds like the "tweaking" you're having to do all has to do w/ bad design not just minor fitting. not to be a "downer" but those are both pretty serious flaws and we spend too much on our gear to be compromising like that. just be careful you aren't talking yourself into these boots and regret it later and can't return them.
you mention a podiatrist - maybe we talked before but do you have a specific foot problem? ever since i started having pain in the ball of my foot i've been wearing both a metatarsal pad and wear a gel insert specific for that problem (but could be worn by anyone). in any case both sure make a hug difference. and then of course i have knee pain which started getting bad. as mentioned on another thread i now wear "cho-pat" knee supports. these are great really. not restrictive and nice support coming down the mountians where my knees would be killing me. as far as boots - well i could probably open my own store! i kept buying boots that wouldn't hurt but then found out it wan't the boot fault it was my feet so i have a "few" pair. i tend to lean towards more aggressive boots even for day hikes. i love a good thick sole like the vibram ice trek. i have the salamon adventure trek's which i would recommend but even those don't have a thick enough sole for me. my favorites are my asolo mtf 600 and lowa alpine guides. this time of the year when i may need a crampon i'll wear my vasque alpines which are convenient bec they take step-ins. the mtf's and lowa take a semi-auto crampon. i also grabbed the salomon pro ice for $60 as i'm taking a few ice climbing classes this winter & to rent the boots is $20 a pop so these will pay for themselves. the best part is i have been very fortunate in finding all my boots on sale, often as much as 80% off. it kind of concerns me that those freney's leak like that. i don't know how much you paid for them but that's not good. it's one thing to have to tweak a boot w/ an insert, an extra heel insert or creative lace tieing but you shouldn't have to deal w/ leaky boots ever! that's just not good. same w/ the eyelets cutting into your foot. it just sounds like the "tweaking" you're having to do all has to do w/ bad design not just minor fitting. not to be a "downer" but those are both pretty serious flaws and we spend too much on our gear to be compromising like that. just be careful you aren't talking yourself into these boots and regret it later and can't return them.
Suebiscuit
New member
SC -
No we haven't talked about podiatrists...I generally don't have problems with my feet other than the too small toe box issue. I won't tell you how much I paid for the boots because it's rather obscene - full price and too much... I agree re the leakiness being poor design, but on a British forum a guy said he sealed the seams and then they were fine. We'll see. Leather boots need to be treated too, so I was OK with that. I just got tired of trying boots on for an hour, and still feeling scrunched toes. And as for the bite, my Salomon's bit me in the same spot (it's mostly my left ankle)...weird ankle bone, I guess.
Glad you've been able to find such cheap boots! Wish my feet were easier to fit...
No we haven't talked about podiatrists...I generally don't have problems with my feet other than the too small toe box issue. I won't tell you how much I paid for the boots because it's rather obscene - full price and too much... I agree re the leakiness being poor design, but on a British forum a guy said he sealed the seams and then they were fine. We'll see. Leather boots need to be treated too, so I was OK with that. I just got tired of trying boots on for an hour, and still feeling scrunched toes. And as for the bite, my Salomon's bit me in the same spot (it's mostly my left ankle)...weird ankle bone, I guess.
Glad you've been able to find such cheap boots! Wish my feet were easier to fit...
coldfeet
Well-known member
Tried my koflach degree's yesterday i Harriman NY...company sells them used..they told me to take them out for a few miles and then call them back..30 day refund...I got a size larger..and they slipped a little in the heel going up but going down the trail my toes kept hitting the front (toebox ?)..I'll call them tomorrow and ask them to send me my regular size..I want to try the same hike to test out the next pair..They do suggest going up a size but it didn't feel right..I also wore a liner and good marino socks..with a footbed...
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