Are you a victim of the Ultra-lite craze?

[Double Bow]

I would also LOVE to buy the free standing Henry Shires Tarpent Double Rainbow, which is supposed to be coming out this month: Tarptent Double Rainbow. I may have to save up for this beauty.

Hmmm... Double Rainbow? Would that be a "Double Bow"? I smell copyright infringement!!

When it comes to all the flashy ultralight doodads I quote Rhett Butler and say "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn". For dayhikes, I never notice the weight of my pack, even in winter. When backpacking for a week, I notice it a bit but I chalk it up as part of the experince. Ya gotta take the lumps with the gravy or else ya can't afford either!

 

[Jeff-B]

Emperor's New Cloths



Well, maybe not exactly that.......

Word to the wise for buying "light weight" gear:
Often to have gear light weight, sacrafices are made to the structural integrity of clothing, tents, packs, ect.
The materials are basically the same, but corners are being cut to shave weight on seams, patching, reinforcements.
Expect some items to not last as long as a result.

To me, "ultra light weight" = "disposable, short life expectency"

Not for every thing of course. My titanium cutlery will outlast me!

As far as the question goes for; "gotta-have-its", I can stand to pass unless I hear of some radical breakthrough technology, within reasonable cost.
Perfect example: Goretex Paclite.

Jeff

 

[Halite]

Quite the contrary!

If I was a victim of anything, it was the "It's gotta be tough enough to survive Armageddon" gear approach when I first started backpacking. My boots were heavy and inflexible, my pack was bulletproof nylon with cinch straps everywhere and my three-season tent has three sturdy poles for the tent body and three more for the fly! Since I've been backpacking now for a few years, I've realized where I can trade some weight savings for durability. I haven't turned into a gram weenie, but I do appreciate it when my pack is lighter or I can trade the weight savings for occasional luxuries.

I've also found that going lighter doesn't always cost extra money. For example, I replaced the fancy compartmented camping plates with take-out Chinese food containers. Gatorade bottles are a lot cheaper and lighter than Nalgene.

 

[dvbl]

First of all, regarding the title of the thread...I obviously didn't mean "victim" in the literal sense of the word. It's a tongue-in-cheek expression, like a "fashion victim". Gosh, I didn't think I had to point that out, but there it is.

Secondly, to those who have cut their pack weight from 30 something pounds to about 15 pounds...awesome. I'm not being sarcastic when I say I think that's great. Opens up a whole new world for you, with new opportunities. Makes you wonder, "Why didn't I do this sooner?" But as I said in my original post, it has nothing at all to do with what I'm talking about. That's a different topic. I'm talking about shaving a pound or two off a 30 pound pack. You're talking about cutting your weight in half. You don't go from 30 pounds to 15 pounds by getting lighter gear, you do it by eliminating gear. You can stray from the topic of the thread if you want, but it doesn't advance the conversation, it just changes it.

And finally, to the person who said "What's your beef?" and then speculated about my self-control and take home pay... have a nice day.

 

[Neil]

And finally, to the person who said "What's your beef?" and then speculated about my self-control and take home pay... have a nice day.

Now, now...you starts the thread you takes it on the chin.

 

[KMartman]

I find the "tag cutters" to be the funniest ultra light junkies out there...really add up all the tags on ALL your equipment, what could it be...and ounce? HA....

M

 

[dr_wu002]

Now, now...you starts the thread you takes it on the chin.

Speaking of "taking it on the chin"... would anyone consider surgically removing "non-essential" body parts to save a few pounds? Doctors will do anything these days.

-Dr. Wu

 

[jfb]

I'm talking about shaving a pound or two off a 30 pound pack.

I have no problem with buying a new item if it saves a pound, even if the old item is still in perfect condition. For example, last summer I bought a Pocket Rocket stove for warm weather backpacking even though my Peak 442 stove still works fine. It saves about a pound in weight and takes up less room in my pack. A few years ago I bought a Precip anorak because it weighed about a pound less than a Patagonia Storm hardshell. I'm also looking at a new mattress that could reduce my base load (~25 lbs.) by another pound. I've been doing this since I started backpacking 36 years ago.

 

[cbcbd]

I agree with this, if you know where to look lightweight gear can be much cheaper. For a small example a standard el cheapo lexan spoon is about 1/10th the cost of a $10 Titanium spork. The MSR Pocket Rocket is about 40 bucks. It does not get much cheaper than that for a high quality stove that lasts.

To go even further you could make an alcohol stove from a can of soda - $1.50!!

I like to think that the mountain environments will eventually also benefit from lighter weight gear, as it enables people to do things as day trips that formerly would have been an overnight (avoiding the higher impact associated with camping).

Slackpacking, woo!

Well, maybe not exactly that.......

Word to the wise for buying "light weight" gear:
Often to have gear light weight, sacrafices are made to the structural integrity of clothing, tents, packs, ect.
The materials are basically the same, but corners are being cut to shave weight on seams, patching, reinforcements.
Expect some items to not last as long as a result.

To me, "ultra light weight" = "disposable, short life expectency"

Some equipment have their limits (Golite packs have a limit of 30lbs), but I don't think lighterweight necessarily means lesser quality - sometimes it's the opposite.

Take sleeping bags: From the lightweight sleeping bags that I've seen, designers don't cut corners by making the seams weaker. Instead they up the down quality to 800, 900-fill down (loftier, more insulation per weight) and trim down on other features that could be considered as luxuries and add weight - zippers are shortened to half length, quarter length, or no zipper at all, with only a zipper at the foot box for regulation.

I recall reading a story on the Golite catalog of a mountaineer who fell while climbing and his Golite pack strap snagged on something and was the thing that saved him from a fatal fall. Again, the packs are sturdy, usually the extra weight is shaved off from leaving out extra buckles, straps, pockets, frame, etc...

 

[McRat]

I'd like to blame marketing, but in a more general sense. I actually look FORWARD to ultralight marketing campaigns - they introduce me to another gear option whether I buy it or not. The fact that I'm constantly looking to "upgrade" may be the sum total of all marketing efforts.

I select gear by the following criteria

1) Functionality / features
2) Durability / Maintenance issues (How long will this last, how much care will it need)
3) Weight
4) Price
5) Vanity - appearance, spiffyness.

As a gearaholic, you quickly realise that everything is a compromise. That's why we accumulate so much stuff. I try to live by "Buy good equipment on sale, replace with better as needed." I still tend to acquire stuff I don't need on a fairly regular basis.

I like to think I've hit a plateau in my gear purchase spree as I can now spend an hour at REI and not find anything I need, that I don't already have two of.

But when something breaks down, it's 'Six-Million Dollar Man' time - "we can replace it - lighter, stronger, faster..."

 

[sli74]

You don't go from 30 pounds to 15 pounds by getting lighter gear, you do it by eliminating gear. You can stray from the topic of the thread if you want, but it doesn't advance the conversation, it just changes it.

But I did exactly that . . . I shaved over 15 pounds by buying specialized lighter weight gear . . . we are talking about the same thing. Let me give you just a few examples.

My old 2 person tent weighed 6 pounds
My new 2 person tent weighs 2 pounds
A savings of 4 pounds

My old summer weight sleeping bag weighed 2 pounds 6 ounces
My new summer sleeping bag weighs 15 ounces
A savings of 1.5 pounds

My old stove weighed 10 ounces
My new stove including its red holder weighs 3.4 ounces
A savings of almost 0.5 pounds

My old thermarest weighed in at 1.5 pounds
My new (after 2 upgrades) weighs 13 ounces
A savings of about 0.5 ounces

My old backpack weighed in at 7 pounds 5 ounces
My new backpack weighs about 2 pounds 10 ounces
A savings of over 4.5 pounds

In just the above examples and these are just the BIG ticket items, I had a weight savings of MORE than 11 pounds. So, it is true that you can lighten your pack significantly with lighter gear. Your 1.5 pound weight decrease only took into effect changing ONE piece of gear but if you continue to decrease the ounces, it will decrease the pounds.

I am not trying to be argumentative here just pointing out that we are talking about the same topic, I am not going off topic, unless I understand your question incorrectly.

Hope that clears up my point . . . and for those that think carrying more weight makes you tougher, well for a woman of my size, my old packweight of 42 pounds for a 4-5 day trip was almost a third of my body weight and the new packweight of 33 pounds is more like a quarter of my body weight. Now consider the winter backpacking pack which before I bought lighter gear, was 68 pounds, HALF my body weight and the new pack weight is about 55 pounds . . . which makes a HUGE HUGE difference at least for someone my size.

sli74

 

[Neil]

I like to think that the mountain environments will eventually also benefit from lighter weight gear, as it enables people to do things as day trips that formerly would have been an overnight (avoiding the higher impact associated with camping).

There's always another take on everything. I started doing the ADK HH list and have always done them as dayhikes. Then when I got my pack weight down to "gossamer" weights I realized I could now enjoy overnight whacks, stringing together as many as 7 or 8 peaks and not having to sweat getting back to the car. I havn't done it yet but it's in the works for July.

How's this for ultra? One of my HH buds wants to do some ultra-long 2 and 3 day hikes. Hike til dark and crash. I say I want to get the lightest down summer bag going and he says "screw the bag man, it'll be summer. Just wear your jacket and curl up in a ball like the animals" Maybe I'll try it but bring a sylnylon tarp in case it rains.

Wu, I know an AT thru hiker who had his baby toes surgically removed in order to save weight. He also had his frontal and occipital bones shaved (I think it's called ostoetomey) to give himself a lighter head. I talked him out of removing a kidney.

 

[Halite]

Wu, I know an AT thru hiker who had his baby toes surgically removed in order to save weight. He also had his frontal and occipital bones shaved (I think it's called ostoetomey) to give himself a lighter head. I talked him out of removing a kidney.

But he could've sold the kidney and had more money to buy even lighter gear!

 

[onestep]

The $200 challenge

"lightweight" doesn't have to be expensive.

It seems like every year or so over on the Yahoo group BackpackingLight they do a $200 Challange... How light can you completly outfit yourself with $200?

"Mark" just posted his rather complete base pack weight of 10 pounds @ $200.

I don't feel right to copy and paste his "shopping list" here, but I think Glen will be posting it at the Gossimer Gear website shortly.

Onestep

 

[dr_wu002]

Wu, I know an AT thru hiker who had his baby toes surgically removed in order to save weight. He also had his frontal and occipital bones shaved (I think it's called ostoetomey) to give himself a lighter head. I talked him out of removing a kidney.

Oh, that's just a few ounces. I bet you can get rid of over 90% of the mass you got. I'm thinking -- get your body weight down to about 5 or 10 lbs.

-Dr. Wu

 

[cbcbd]

I'm talking about shaving a pound or two off a 30 pound pack. You're talking about cutting your weight in half. You don't go from 30 pounds to 15 pounds by getting lighter gear, you do it by eliminating gear. You can stray from the topic of the thread if you want, but it doesn't advance the conversation, it just changes it.

The question then just gets harder to answer. Sometimes to go lighterweight you have to compromise. If you are talking purely about two pieces of gear with the same features but with lighter materials then that's a very specific niche to discuss.

If you're talking about exchanging your pack to one with less straps and frills and the individual can make the compromise and not hang stuff off his pack... then that's another story.

How about you post what gear you have (the main stuff - pack, sleeping bag, pad, tent) and we'll see if we can give lighterweight suggestions?

 

[jbrown]

You may be able to get a pack from Glen at Gossamer Gear on clearance like I did. I got a G-4 a few years ago for $40 (I think it was somewhere around there anyway...) I've slowly lightened up a bunch of my gear since then, even making my own gear when I could.

As for being a "victim" of the ultralight craze, no. As the saying goes, "I don't suffer from insanity[going ultralight], I enjoy every minute of it."

 

[dvbl]

My old 2 person tent weighed 6 pounds
My new 2 person tent weighs 2 pounds
A savings of 4 pounds


sli74

May I ask the brand and model of your 2 person, 2 pound tent?

And, no, you're not being argumentative. You're just challenging (and it would appear disproving) one of my points. That's just honest debate. You're always very polite.

 

[sli74]

May I ask the brand and model of your 2 person, 2 pound tent?

And, no, you're not being argumentative. You're just challenging (and it would appear disproving) one of my points. That's just honest debate. You're always very polite.

I have a Henry Shires Tarptent (actually I have 2 of them, the Squall and the Cloudburst and there in is the proof of my gear addiction). The 2 pound tent is the Squall

http://www.tarptent.com/products.html

I have the older version and I think it actually weighs less than 2 pounds.

As far as online correspondence, it is hard sometimes to tell someone's tone so I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming across as rude, better to state my tone than to assume someone will realize it.

sli74

 

[Jeff-B]

Some equipment have their limits (Golite packs have a limit of 30lbs), but I don't think lighterweight necessarily means lesser quality - sometimes it's the opposite.

I have nothing against Golite, but as you brought this up.....

So, Golite has a load limit of 30lbs (not a lot) then mention in marketing that the strap saved someones life...once.
But I'll bet most packs can do that and continue a life of hard use, falling on straps dozens of times!
Have you fallen for the "plug" by Golite?, I guess so, you must own one..
...Just poking a little fun....no slam here..

For the record; I never said "lesser quality", I stated specifically that seams were made lighter by making them smaller, with probably fewer folds, reinforcements, ect., which is the truth.
It does not mean that its "cheap", rather, more difficult to construct.

However, I am saying that the smaller seams would blow out more easily, less durable and shorter wearing.

Of course less zippers and buckles can reduce the weight as well, agreed.

I have seen this trend towards weight reduction by way of reduceing seams, which is also stated by many manufacturers.
Mt Hardware is leading an effort to use light weight sailmaking cloths in thier tents and clothing and I applaud the effort!
Being an experienced sailmaker myself, I see these new fabrics saving considerable weight.
How they are constructed, seams, stitching, ect. is equally important to function and durability.


Jeff