Arsonists target Dillon in Success

[HighHorse]

Democrat Underground (D.U.) is a board for angry leftists, a fun read.

HH states that his use of quotaion marks around the adjective "reasonable" shows that he does not consider it reasonable, but he goes on to describe the actions as "justified". The sympathy is then thinly veiled by the word "perverse". The "sense of environmental urgency" speaks volumes. This is classic phrasiology of environmental extremists, who do a great disservice to environmental conservation. These people destroy the voice of normal concerned citizens. If I'm wrong, then I apologize to HH. But I doubt it.

I don't quite understand why it's necessary to stoop to stupid barbs (the DU comment). Instead of making a chain of assumptions about me and flattening the debate into the standard "hardball"-style namecalling "political discussion", why not actually engage meaningfully and take the time to explain your position? I believe that it's the former type of political discussion that Darren and others on this site have a distaste for, not substantive and mature discussion of relevant topics that have political angles. A good counter-example to your reply would be RGF1's thoughtful response. I disagree with parts of it, but appreciate the insight contained within and the manner in which it was written. (RFG1 if my ratings counted I'd give you good feedback).

To clarify:

1. I never came close to saying the actions were justified. I said that having a sense of urgency with regard to saving the environment is justified.

2. My initial comments did not pertain to the logging industry, but rather with the full spectrum of environmental problems facing us today. I actually don't really have issues with loggers; I wouldn't go so far as some of you have in your praise of them, but I agree that it's not a top 10 environmental issue (although you don't need to go far to uncover environmental abuses related to logging- some have already mentioned them; also the paper mills in Berlin haven't had the most immaculate track record).

3. This is for Stan and is rooted in #2. You wrote:
"If you want to see what they'll be like in 20-50-100 years look at them now and consider the logging practices of 20-50-100 years ago. Given current logging practices and the tremendous research on forestry, there is good reason to be very optimistic about the future of our mountains."
The problem with this line of reasoning is the assumption that all other environmental factors will remain constant at the levels that they were 20 years to one century ago. We know that this isn't the case. We know that greenhouse emissions have already significantly changed our climate and this change will become even more significant over time (just as one example of how things are drastically different than before). So the assumption that things will rebound like they did before doesn't strike me as a given.

This is an interesting topic.

 

[Frosty]

The problem with this line of reasoning is the assumption that all other environmental factors will remain constant at the levels that they were 20 years to one century ago. We know that this isn't the case. We know that greenhouse emissions have already significantly changed our climate and this change will become even more significant over time (just as one example of how things are drastically different than before). So the assumption that things will rebound like they did before doesn't strike me as a given.

This is an interesting topic.

Well, look on the bright side. No amount of men with chain saws can do more damage to the north woods than the last Ice Age, and the forests rebounded okay. Dillon may be cutting all the trees, but at least he isn't scraping all the topsoil off and pushing it down into Massachusetts.

The forests rebounded after John Henry's logging operations, too. In fact, if he hadn't trashed the Whites so badly that he needed to unload the land afterwards, there probably wouldn't even be a WMNF.

There's always a bright side

 

[RGF1]

Dave, for the hiking community's interests, let's hope the "common knowledge" is correct here in this instance!

Not only the hiking community, But every one who enjoys the out doors regarless of how and the poeple who live in the area. If it is found to be some nut case. with a agenda I am afraid more people will close off land and access.

BTW most logging on the scale that Dillon is doing is not done with chainsaws but a Feller Buncher this machine will cut down and limb a tree . In about 5 minutes or less depending on the size of the tree. Dillon has a whole bunch of them. The logs are then hualed out by a skidder and put onto the huge trucks you see hauling them.There is one machine that will even cut limb and put the logs on the trucks. It is too "expensive" to pay a bunch of guys $ 20- 40 or so and hour to use chainsaws and cut selectivily if you are liquidating the land . If you think ATVs make a mess you should see the mess heavy equipment like this make .

 

[forestgnome]

I don't quite understand why it's necessary to stoop to stupid barbs (the DU comment). .

I retract and apologize for the comment. As you can see by all the more civil comments, the doomsday mentality concerning the environment is not shared by very many people here, or in the general population, and rightfully so.

I was reading about the foiled mission of the terrorist cell in Canada to hijack an airliner and fly it into the Seabrook nuclear plant, then I read about this. The jihadists and the eco-terrorists have in common a hatred for modern western life. They are equally abhorant in my view.

The criminal act in Success polluted the air, risked wildfire, damaged the reputation of environmental conservation, and might result in loss of access to a huge amount of beautiful land.

'nuff said.

 

[Stan]

"If you want to see what they'll be like in 20-50-100 years look at them now and consider the logging practices of 20-50-100 years ago. Given current logging practices and the tremendous research on forestry, there is good reason to be very optimistic about the future of our mountains."

The problem with this line of reasoning is the assumption that all other environmental factors will remain constant at the levels that they were 20 years to one century ago. We know that this isn't the case. We know that greenhouse emissions have already significantly changed our climate and this change will become even more significant over time (just as one example of how things are drastically different than before). So the assumption that things will rebound like they did before doesn't strike me as a given.

This is an interesting topic.

HighHorse, the problem with your line of reasoning is that you make assumptions that, in your mind at least, are statements of facts that everyone else is supposed to accept, if not on logic then on faith I suppose.

One grand assumption is that sustainable harvesting of a renewable (i.e good logging practices) will cause more damage than the alternative ... raiding the rain forests and more petroleum based substitutes.

They may not rebound in the same way. Hardwoods may displace softwoods at higher elevations and further north for example. I think nature, including mankind, can adapt to that if necessary.

We do share the sentiment that this is an interesting topic and that we all want to preserve what we enjoy.

 

[Waumbek]

Also, for whatever it is worth, I just read the online Littleton Courier article from today on this. (I'm not able to link or copy it verbatim at present from CA.) It says that it is "arson," uses the word "vandalism," notes previous acts of vandalism against Dillon, and says that only vehicles and equipment with Canadian plates were burned but draws no conclusion at this early stage of investigation.

 

[RGF1]

Also, for whatever it is worth, I just read the online Littleton Courier article from today on this. (I'm not able to link or copy it verbatim at present from CA.) It says that it is "arson," uses the word "vandalism," notes previous acts of vandalism against Dillon, and says that only vehicles and equipment with Canadian plates were burned but draws no conclusion at this early stage of investigation.

Waumbeck. The Contactor , Bedard . Is from Quebec . It could well be some one upset about forgien companies and such. . In a economically depressed area usch as Berlin . stuff like out sourcing and forgien compaines does not go over well.
I do believe Bedard hired locals to operate his equipment but I am not positive.
But the type of operation is also upseting to locals . . As Srtipping land does not require much of a work force . See my previous post about the type of equipment used.

 

[arghman]

In the Dillon case it means The Mahoosucs . A area alot of us enjoy hiking in . By even showing sypmathy to the cause of the nut case who set the fire you only make the cause of protecting the enviorment look bad and just futher any sympathy for some one like Dillon and his version of logging .
Unfortuanly it is Dillons Porperty It had been for sale ro some time he bought it and is now timbering it and eventually willl sell it off. More than likely to developers who will pay the most for it .
The bad part is it is very possible that for most hiking in the Mahooscus will be shut off . In case people do not know Success is well, right near Sucess Pond. The area encompasses many of the trails off Sucess Pond road.
The person or persons who did this should be locked up in state prison for a good long time they not only hurt Dillon but every one in the area and hikers , hunters ect who use and enjoy that area .

I think RGF1's post sums it up. As much as it makes me sick that Dillon controls that land and the trails and the road, I have to say that illegal acts like this are counterproductive.