AT in VT

[Stan]

Well, one good thing about mud season, it gives us something fun to talk about around the VFTT fire ring ... else we might be hiking.

 

[Tom Rankin]

First of all, are the GMC facilities open if no one is allowed to hike to them?

I'm kind of neutral about the AMC, but before you bust on them too much,

a) The Huts were there before we all changed our minds about conservation.
b) Look at the summit of Washington for evidence of the state and federal government's presence, not to mention private interests.
c) NY does the same thing on Whiteface. At least we got rid of the summit shelter on Marcy.
d) Vermont - Ski slopes ...
e) Maine - Baxter State Park. Oh wait, that's exactly the opposite!

 

[Raven]

First of all, are the GMC facilities open if no one is allowed to hike to them?

Ha! I laughed at the same thing. It must be a mistake but that sure sounds like the GMC is sending educators all the way up closed trails to educate people to stay off closed trails. Sounds like there is some confusion somewhere.

That might explain why people question these things sometimes. Clarity helps.

 

[jniehof]

First of all, are the GMC facilities open if no one is allowed to hike to them?

I think they go up last week of mud season to get things set up. I admit to hiking Stratton a week and a day before Memorial Day one year based on a combination of knowledge and reasonable guess of the conditions (it was indeed fairly dry) and I got to meet the lovely folks up there.

I'm kind of neutral about the AMC, but before you bust on them too much

f) At the last round of renewal for the special use permit, the question was not whether there would be huts. The question was whether AMC would operate them or someone else would get the franchise. FS seems to think they're a good idea, or at least a sufficient tradition not to oppose. One could argue the AMC got the ball rolling, then, but the Summit House had been there for 24 years, the Tip-Top House 23, before the AMC even existed. One could argue AMC should at least avoid condoning such use, and that gets into an interesting conversation better had in a friendly in-person environment with a couple of beers than in this thread

 

[Ed'n Lauky]

Hmmm, I don't know where this sign is, but if it were at a summit, I would put it in the 'Ironic Sign' category. The worst offender is a tribute to John Burroughs, at the summit of Slide Mountain, which ironically quotes Burroughs with, 'Here the works of man dwindle'. Yeah, thanks, they would have, until you put this sign here!

The sign in that picture is actually located at the entrance to Rock City, GA, but it has appeared in many different places and has an interesting background. This article points it out pretty well. http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/mysterious-case-park-poet

 

[sierra]

First of all, are the GMC facilities open if no one is allowed to hike to them?

I'm kind of neutral about the AMC, but before you bust on them too much,

a) The Huts were there before we all changed our minds about conservation.
b) Look at the summit of Washington for evidence of the state and federal government's presence, not to mention private interests.
c) NY does the same thing on Whiteface. At least we got rid of the summit shelter on Marcy.
d) Vermont - Ski slopes ...
e) Maine - Baxter State Park. Oh wait, that's exactly the opposite!

I try not to bust on them to much, just an occasional shot over the Bow. I have learned to accept their footprint, I just don't care for them. As a long time White mtn hiker, I just never saw them as a resource for me. Same thing with Washingtons summit, I just take it in stride, its still a great mountain.

 

[jrbren]

First of all, are the GMC facilities open if no one is allowed to hike to them?

I'm kind of neutral about the AMC, but before you bust on them too much,

a) The Huts were there before we all changed our minds about conservation.
b) Look at the summit of Washington for evidence of the state and federal government's presence, not to mention private interests.
c) NY does the same thing on Whiteface. At least we got rid of the summit shelter on Marcy.
d) Vermont - Ski slopes ...
e) Maine - Baxter State Park. Oh wait, that's exactly the opposite!

I always enjoy reading your posts. Of course that means now I am going to nit pick something. WRT 4 & 5, it makes it sound like Maine is an avid defender of wilderness while Vermont rips up the mountains for ski slopes. I would more compare Sugarloaf and the Rangely region to Vt ski areas, and Camel's Hump State park to Baxter State park. One day I have to get up to Baxter, after 26 years of being an avid hiker in the northeast I still have never made it up there. It looks great in photos and word of mouth reports (if the weather if good, otherwise I guess the inside of a cloud looks the same from Camel's hump as it does from Baxter peak).

This thread seems to be great for spin off topics. I do not view huts as a bad thing. What does the group think would be a bigger impact on the local environment, a hut or a sprawling tent city like at NY's Marcy dam ? The other alternative would be limit the number of people who can visit the area, which seems the least attractive option to me.

 

[sierra]

I always enjoy reading your posts. Of course that means now I am going to nit pick something. WRT 4 & 5, it makes it sound like Maine is an avid defender of wilderness while Vermont rips up the mountains for ski slopes. I would more compare Sugarloaf and the Rangely region to Vt ski areas, and Camel's Hump State park to Baxter State park. One day I have to get up to Baxter, after 26 years of being an avid hiker in the northeast I still have never made it up there. It looks great in photos and word of mouth reports (if the weather if good, otherwise I guess the inside of a cloud looks the same from Camel's hump as it does from Baxter peak).

This thread seems to be great for spin off topics. I do not view huts as a bad thing. What does the group think would be a bigger impact on the local environment, a hut or a sprawling tent city like at NY's Marcy dam ? The other alternative would be limit the number of people who can visit the area, which seems the least attractive option to me.

There would not be a sprawling tent city, because there is no camping above treeline. Instead of a Hut, you would have Alpine terrain, that's it. That's what I would prefer.

 

[jrbren]

FWIW my question was not meant to be limited in scope to above treeline in the northeastern US. Given the lack of real estate above tree line in this region I agree with the no camping above tree line. The Marcy dam example was supposed to illustrate where there is a tent city every summer, and I am wondering if a hut there would be less impact on the surroundings. I am only aware of 2 AMC huts above treeline in the Whites, Madison Springs and Lake of the Clouds. There is one RMC hut I know of above treeline (Crag Camp). Should these be removed ? Most of the huts are below treeline. Should camping be made illegal at Lonesome Lake (for example) after removing the hut ? Sorry for the tangent, but as I said, this thread has numerous sin off possibilities.

 

[VTskier]

This was just yesterday as some folks decided to visit Vermont & go for a hike! I hope we bill them for the service provided...

PERU, Vt. (AP) - Vermont authorities say two New Jersey men are safe after getting stranded in deep snow while hiking in the Green Mountain National Forest.

State police say 34-year-old Nikolas Brown called 911 on Thursday evening to report that he and his friend, 28-year-old Alan Parkell, were stranded on the Long Trail in Peru, Vermont. The men, both from Pennsville, New Jersey, were stuck in waist-deep snow and unable to continue hiking.

Brown was able to provide GPS coordinates of their location, and a team of rescuers from several agencies found the hikers and helped them out of the woods. Neither was injured.

 

[peakbagger]

Since the thread drift wants to persist, with respect to impact of above treeline huts, AMC got to spend a bunch of money on an EIS to justify the huts remaining in the whites about 15 years ago. It was quite extensive and came the conclusion that the AMC huts were the best of the alternatives studied. BTW, Crag camp is not officially above treeline.

 

[TCD]

This was just yesterday as some folks decided to visit Vermont & go for a hike! I hope we bill them for the service provided...

PERU, Vt. (AP) - Vermont authorities say two New Jersey men are safe after getting stranded in deep snow while hiking in the Green Mountain National Forest.

State police say 34-year-old Nikolas Brown called 911 on Thursday evening to report that he and his friend, 28-year-old Alan Parkell, were stranded on the Long Trail in Peru, Vermont. The men, both from Pennsville, New Jersey, were stuck in waist-deep snow and unable to continue hiking.

Brown was able to provide GPS coordinates of their location, and a team of rescuers from several agencies found the hikers and helped them out of the woods. Neither was injured.

This always amazes me. Happened recently on Hurricane in the Adirondacks, too.

The LT is a ridge trail, so from almost all trailheads it's uphill on the trail.

Now it's obviously dramatically easier to return downhill on a trail you have already tracked a bit, than to go uphill in untracked snow.

So you are going uphill, and the going is getting tougher and tougher. How is it that you get to a point where you are so worn out that you cannot return DOWNHILL; before you figure out that maybe you should turn around... ?

 

[Tom Rankin]

postholing down hill can be quite tiring as well...

 

[sierra]

Since the thread drift wants to persist, with respect to impact of above treeline huts, AMC got to spend a bunch of money on an EIS to justify the huts remaining in the whites about 15 years ago. It was quite extensive and came the conclusion that the AMC huts were the best of the alternatives studied. BTW, Crag camp is not officially above treeline.

Like many things in life, sometimes you just accept it and move on. I will say one positive thing, the Huts are a good water source, although I have to beg a stranger to fill my bottles, because my dog cannot go in.