AT/Rondonee question

[DougPaul]

I bought AT ski's because I wanted to do backcountry and ski at lifts. In retrospect, I do not think it was a wise investment.

AT, IMO is aimed at the steeps in the backcountry (eg Tuckerman Ravine, Gulf of Slides, etc) or at downhill areas and BC is aimed at travel over rolling backcountry terrain (often following hiking trails). Any gear chosen to cover both would require some pretty heavy compromises and will be optimum for neither. (Tele might be a better choice than AT for this range, but would also be quite heavy.)

Then I found most of backcountry skiing needs could be met with lighter equipment. I really began to dislike having to choose and apply a wax as well (for use on groomed trails). And the AT gear is so much heavier for groomed trail use that I was just shuffling along and not really skiing.

FWIW, I use BC gear for both groomed trails and BC. BC gear kicks and glides well, turns adequately, and is not so heavy that it becomes a burden. (Both waxless and waxable gear is available--I have both and much prefer waxable if the snow conditions are good, but use waxless in poorer conditions.) I'm not going to win any XC races using BC gear, but I'm far more interested in BC than racing.

FWIW2, I skied today at Windblown (groomed trails, http://www.windblownxc.com/ ). I did 14.6 mi and 2500 vertical feet on waxable BC skis (with 3-pin bindings and leather boots) and never felt unhappy with the gear. I have used the exact same gear in the BC (except my pack is heavier due the the additional safety gear). Windblown has one trail which is essentially a downhill trail (the "Open Slope")--~20ft wide and steep enough that downhill skills are required. My friend Tele'd it and I used parallel turns, both on BC gear. A description of one of my BC tours and my waxable BC gear can be found in the thread "Pemi XC Ski Tour" http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27503

Doug

 

[TomD]

For all things Tele, check out www.telemarktips.com
The forum (Telemark Talk) tends to be a bit "clubby" but nowhere near as obnoxious as TGR's forums.

Some of the TTips folks are hard core and will diss anyone using anything else, but it is a great source for info about skis, boots and bindings.

As already noted, telemark is a skiing style with a free heel binding, the classic being a 75mm 3 pin binding. Now there are different system bindings, such as the NTN, the newest tele binding.

Tele boots look like everything from old school leather hiking boots with the 75mm "duckbill" on the front to boots that are almost indistinguishable from alpine racing boots, like the 4 buckle Scarpa T Race (also a 3 pin boot). The NTN boots like the Garmont Prophet look like an alpine boot.

I have no personal experience with any of this gear, so no recommendations of any kind from me.

My BC setup, which I have only used a few times, is Atomic Rainier skis with Voile 3 pin cable bindings mounted on the Voile release kit. Rainiers are a fairly narrow, metal-edged touring ski (88-60-78). My boots are Garmont Excursions, Garmont's plastic 2 buckle touring boot.

Tele skis, from what I have read, are often nothing more than softer flex alpine skis with different top sheets. One recommendation on TTips for beginners is to buy a pair of cheap shaped alpine skis (something other than a race ski), mount some bindings and have fun.

 

[cbcbd]

I bought AT ski's because I wanted to do backcountry and ski at lifts. In retrospect, I do not think it was a wise investment.

I picked longer skis to get more float with gear for backcountry, but it decreased the fun I had for lift skiing--its much easier for me to do turns in a short ski.

Then I found most of backcountry skiing needs could be met with lighter equipment. I really began to dislike having to choose and apply a wax as well (for use on groomed trails). And the AT gear is so much heavier for groomed trail use that I was just shuffling along and not really skiing.

I think there might be some confusion in the terminology here - ie BC vs AT vs Alpine (downhill)

This it an AT binding:
http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P12375879.jpg

AT gear is definitively lighter than Alpine downhill gear. But heavier than BC. And there is no need to wax an AT ski for different uses - you'd wax it just like an Alpine downhill ski.
I ski both inbounds and backcountry with my AT setups.

 

[mirabela]

And there is no need to wax an AT ski for different uses - you'd wax it just like an Alpine downhill ski

That's true if you're relying on skins for forward propulsion on flats or uphill, but you can use XC kick wax for forward movement on the flats or gentle uphills.

 

[DougPaul]

Tele skis, from what I have read, are often nothing more than softer flex alpine skis with different top sheets.

This might be selling Tele skis a bit short...

One recommendation on TTips for beginners is to buy a pair of cheap shaped alpine skis (something other than a race ski), mount some bindings and have fun.

But it is true that this is a cheap way of making a serviceable Tele rig. The advice that I have seen recommends that one pick of up a pair of softish used alpine skis (particularly avoid stiff tails).

Now days, many manufacturers are marketing the same skis for either Tele or AT use. I have a pair of Tele skis (K2 World Piste) and what some reviews have described as the corresponding AT ski (K2 Shuksan). By a lucky match of model years, both have the same profile (119/78/105 mm) and seem to have similar cambers and flexes (the Shuksan might be a smidgen softer). There are some other obvious differences, but they appear that they will be pretty similar when the ski hits the snow.

Doug

 

[cbcbd]

That's true if you're relying on skins for forward propulsion on flats or uphill, but you can use XC kick wax for forward movement on the flats or gentle uphills.

It's not that you can't. One certainly could kick wax their AT skis. Although purely from anecdotal evidence, most AT skiers I have seen do a big up followed by a big down and it is just easier to have the skins on for the whole way up. I think if what a skier is interested in is mostly flats or gentle uphills then an AT setup is probably not the best tool.

Another thing, BC/XC skis are double cambered, which allows you to wax your kick zone and still have a good glide when weighing both skis at the same time. On a single cambered ski your kick zone would always be glued to the ground when you had your weight over both skis.