Avalance on Mt Ranier Hiker missing

[Orsonab]

From what I can tell, the avalanche stopped before reaching the foot of the glacier where the campsite is for the Ingraham Flats - is that correct? That must have been terrifying to hear though in the dark of 4:45am. It's almost exactly one year to the day since I was at that exact campsite - gulp!

 

[Chip]

Given that this solo climber was hit by an avalanche, and was known to be buried and was searched for by a competent team, it appears that the climber being solo had little or no effect on the outcome.

"Civilians" (as the guides call unguided climbers) on Rainier can quickly create a serious dilema for groups and their professional guides. We descended in a white-out blizzard that killed a guy a couple days later. At Muir the ranger asked our guides to take down a few "civilians" with our group. So then we and our guides were responsible for them. (huh ?) No huge deal, but if the sh@t hit the fan and the energy and resources were more thinly divided, well, basically us paying the guides and the guides themselves are in a more dangerous situation than we would have been.

A solo climber like this may have latched onto the guided groups to break and test the route for him. It's an issue. He had the right to be on the mountain, but...

 

[AOC-1]

"Civilians" (as the guides call unguided climbers) on Rainier can quickly create a serious dilema for groups and their professional guides. QUOTE]

And on the flip side, guided parties can create a hazard for non-guided climbers. When my friend and I did the D.C. route last year, we passed a guided party of 11 climbers at Ingraham Flats. The guide yelled at us and insisted we get behind them on the cleaver. This would have exposed us (and our 4 collective feet) to the potential rockfall hazard of their 22 feet. I politely declined the guide's unsafe "request."

 

[TCD]

Craig, I don't have a source, but it's pretty well known that most live rescues are carried out by members of the victim's party; remote rescue teams are usually doing body recovery.

Doug, yes it was my choice of words. When I learned glacier travel (on Mt. Baker from AAI), they heavily emphasized proper rope management and the minimization of slack. They held to a standard that said if you were doing good rope work, your team member that "fell into a crevasse" should only drop in shoulder deep, and basically be able to climb out on their own. We trained for rescues and pulley systems, etc., but we were expected to avoid getting into that situation in the first place. So when I said "falling in a crevasse" I meant "an unroped fall way down into a crevasse" as opposed to "a short drop down when you go through a bridge and are caught immediately on a tight rope." Sorry for the vague usage.

TCD

 

[Chip]

"Civilians" (as the guides call unguided climbers) on Rainier can quickly create a serious dilema for groups and their professional guides. QUOTE]

And on the flip side, guided parties can create a hazard for non-guided climbers. When my friend and I did the D.C. route last year, we passed a guided party of 11 climbers at Ingraham Flats. The guide yelled at us and insisted we get behind them on the cleaver. This would have exposed us (and our 4 collective feet) to the potential rockfall hazard of their 22 feet. I politely declined the guide's unsafe "request."

I totally get that individuals may have had problems/bad experiences with guided groups. It struck me that RMI. in particular, felt they owned the mountain and could do whatever they wanted. I was just bringing up the point I made as an example.

 

[Craig]

Craig, I don't have a source, but it's pretty well known that most live rescues are carried out by members of the victim's party; remote rescue teams are usually doing body recovery.

TCD

Oh, I thought you were saying an individuals chance of rescue in an avalanche was greatly enhanced if that individual was roped to others.

My bad

 

[cbcbd]

Stats and things get a little confusing when you throw in avalanches and crevasses together. IMO, I think being pushed into a crevasse by an avy would be completely different logistically than if you were to fall into one while walking on a glacier. While climbing you and your partner can surely keep the rope taught (and your partner can arrest your fall). But if you and your buddy are riding an avy I'm not sure what good a rope would do if you were swept into a crevasse, which in avalanche terms would be called a "terrain trap"

Also, if I recall correctly, most deaths from avys are caused from trauma endured when hit and tumbled by the avy.

 

[Chip]

Well, search has resumed and they know who he is, at least. He's a local adventurer that survived being kidnapped in South America; http://www.theolympian.com/2010/06/11/1268027/climber-sought-adventure-solitude.html