Avalanche in Huntington Ravine: 3 hurt (Updated Subject line)

[nartreb]

The day or two after an incident is usually not a good time to be commenting on the decisions that went into it. Lots of important facts aren't usually known right away.

I'm particularly perplexed by the idea that it took four hours to get from Harvard Cabin to the base of the gully. Maybe they meant the AMC's "Harvard cabin"??

However, since Thom Pollard has gone ahead and commented, I'll point out a few phrases he may want to reconsider:

Snow continued to fall throughout the afternoon. And although our route was on the lee side, high winds overhead deposited more snow up high, near the terminus of the route. The accumulation of these conditions could not be predicted before climb. By the time we met those conditions, a return descent would have been as dangerous as continuing upward, and therefore out of the question.

 

[Breeze]

Another paragraph from Thom's FB

"
Lastly, keep an eye out for my film. It's going to be amazing, and millions of people will one day learn of Keith and what a true hero he is. As Victoria said yesterday, all the work and effort we poured into the media after our avalanche helped keep the dream of an American hero alive. "

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151401062429238&set=a.35844184237.42471.687929237&type=1


Breeze

 

[spider solo]

"Several of us have actively tried to suppress unjustified "lynch the victim" fests. It seems to have had some lasting effect."

Oh, I hadn't noticed.

 

[mtnpa]

...Notice a few things........ first ..... NH F&G was not involved in any way.

Second.... the USFS brought them down by snowcat... something the F&G doesn't have in place there or anywhere.

Third... I've got a pretty good idea that Chris Joosen and MORE than a few others were on alert for the possibility of trouble. Incident called at 5:30 PM and the first three injured loaded into ambulances @ PNVC @ 9:30. EVERYONE else off the mountain by 11:30 including 23 rescue personnel. Mountain Rescue Services took a cold call on this ??????

I've got bells jingling on one leg.

Breeze

USFS coordinates rescues in Cuttler River Drainage from December 1 through May 31. NHF&G handles all others.

Snowcat would not be practical for most situations. F&G does use snowmachines and ATV's.

SAR volunteers try to be on the scene within an hour of a callout.

MRS rocks

 

[Daniel Eagan]

Report is in:

http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/01-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

I'm getting an "Error 404 - Not Found" for that link.

Not your fault, there's a link on this page, 2012-2013 Summaries: 01-17-2013 Avalanche in Central Gully that also leads to a 404 Error.

 

[JCarter]

Try this one:

http://www.mountwashingtonavalanche...-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

 

[JCarter]

www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter....-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

Despite this discussion and warnings about increasing avalanche danger through the day and that Moderate avalanche danger means that “human triggered avalanches are possible,” the group decided to stick with their plan.

 

[Daniel Eagan]

Try this one:

http://www.mountwashingtonavalanche...-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

Thanks this is fascinating, I appreciate it.

 

[JacobH]

www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter....-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

I prefer this summary:

...this is clearly a complex situation where a lot decisions needed to be made as the day unfolded. We believe that this was an avoidable accident that fortunately resulted in very minor injuries considering the magnitude of the incident. We have the benefit of hindsight and were not involved in the group’s decision making process, so it’s impossible to know all the factors and how they were considered. Again, the intent of this analysis is not to place blame, but to allow others to learn from the experiences of their fellow climbers. We wish group members the best in their admirable cause and in their future mountaineering endeavors. We look forward to seeing them again in the hills pursuing climbs with new lessons learned under their belt.

 

[TEO]

It's curious that when an out-of-stater makes mistakes and requires a search-and-rescue, the Union Leader vultures are quick to descend, but when NH residents and a vet make mistakes not a word is said. If anyone should be pilloried online it's this crew. I would also be surprised if these people are fined for negligence, in spite of what would appear to be a multitude of negligence, based on precedent previously set.

 

[Breeze]

Teo, they cannot be fined by the state of NH because NH F&G had nothing to do with their rescue. This rescue was USFS called and executed with support of some exceptional volunteers.

The climbers ARE being pilloried across multiple boards....... many of those fora have been linked in this thread. Also see Alpine Zone and T4T. It's hard not to find commentary about this incident.

No one is getting a pass here. The actual film footage of the incident is of much greater theatrical value than if they had moseyed SAFELY on up to MWOBS full of *****, grins and High Fives, after dark, for dinner , dessert, and warm beds waiting for them before their planned RIDE down.

Many words have been said, some in haste and some ( of my own)with with regret, and more words held in abeyance.

These 12 folks exceeded ALL OF their combined lucky numbers for one day. They aren't getting a pass anywhere I'm reading.


There is going to be an adventure feature film of this........ will you pay to watch ?

Breeze

 

[Raven]

www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter....-17-2013-avalanche-accident-in-central-gully/

Wow - that is a REALLY interesting summary and analysis. Thanks for posting. I learned quite a bit by reading that.

 

[SherpaWill]

One thing I am curious about. Was anyone in their party traveling with avalanche transceivers and/or probes?

 

[SherpaWill]

" We believe that the overall confidence in the leader’s ability and experience may have led to some group members withholding from the entire group avalanche concerns they may have had. This confidence was stated by one group member as a reason for not carrying avalanche rescue gear (i.e. beacons, shovels, and probes)."

Thank you. Reading that sent a chill down my spine.

 

[DougPaul]

One thing I am curious about. Was anyone in their party traveling with avalanche transceivers and/or probes?

I don't know about this party specifically, but ice climbers in Huntington often don't carry transceivers and probes. Most avalanche fatalities in Huntington are due to climbers hitting rocks or impacts while falling rather than burial--thus transceivers and probes would not help very often. No one was buried in this incident so transceivers and probes would not have changed the outcome.

I don't know the statistics, but I suspect that burial is more of an issue in Tuckerman Ravine.

As for East vs West, I think this is more an issue of terrain and snow depths in the collection and running zones than E-W location. (The gullies in Huntington are narrow with relatively small collection zones and empty out onto a broad valley floor which may have exposed rocks. Tuckerman has larger collection zones and thus an avalanche may involve more snow.)

Excess gear weight is a bigger issue in climbing than it is in hiking.

Doug

 

[SherpaWill]

I guess that was my bigger question. If that type of equipment was commonly carried in the ravines.

 

[nartreb]

A couple of folks who post here have climbed multiple Huntington gullies in a day, but I think Jake's guide friend is being a bit misleading. Four hours car to car is a lot faster than I usually travel in the winter, though I'm sure it's feasible if you're a professional guide on your day off (in great shape, know the route, travelling extremely light, willing to solo). First you've got to slog up from the car to the ravine, something like three miles uphill. Normal parties will be carrying emergency bivy gear, a rope, and a couple of ice screws and snow pickets, which aren't light. I'd budget almost two hours right there (obviously your guide friend is a lot faster), and an hour to walk down that same trail after the climbing is done, which leaves me one hour for climbing AND descent? Not gonna happen. Parties frequently camp at Harvard Cabin (at the base of the ravine), start as soon as they get the weather report (seven AM), and some still come back in the dark (though usually because they got lost or had some other misadventure).

Experienced ice climbers can easily solo the whole thing, but such folks don't usually bother with Central Gully unless they're bringing up a beginner. In the usual case, you'll "pitch it out" at least over the lower ice bulge: use a rope and place screws or other anchors in case of a fall, and go one at a time. The bigger the party, the slower you're going to be.

A common theme in Western accident reports (e.g. Mt Hood) is parties using rope but no anchors. Climbers frequently overestimate their ability to self-arrest. One person trips and the whole team goes for a ride. Worse, one rope team slides into another party's rope, starting a chain reaction... The recent incident in Central Gully is interesting in that the use of ropes (rather than unroping for the upper part, as is commonly done) most likely saved a few lives, even without anchors. (Unroped, some of the members might never have arrested on their own. At the very least, three climbers stopped when their rope snagged a rock.)

Probes and beacons aren't hugely useful unless a) rescuers know how to use them, b) rescuers can reach the victims within minutes. A skier who witnesses an avalanche that catches his buddy has a chance to ski down and find the buddy alive, but an ice climber usually can't get down fast enough.

 

[DougPaul]

I would guess not much more than a day pack and climbing gear. It is only WI 1 which is very easy climbing wise. I believe it is probably solo'd quite often by skilled climbers in good conditions. Apparently many of the gullys are even skied down by guys with big time skills when the snow is good.

Edit: just talked to a rock/ice guide friend of mine.. he said he'd bring ice tools,crampons and a bottle of water and be done in 3hr. Aka.. taking that long was completely unconventional and using ropes for most of it is not normal.. he says 4 hr car to car or 6 if you go to the summit too. so in normal circumstances they should have been done by noon-1pm at the top. He also says traveling in rope teams like that is a no-no unless you're on a glacier..

lack of avy gear is not really a major flag for me.. The attitude towards "going anyway" "going forward instead of retreating" etc is far worse in my book. Better to avoid an accident than have to deal with one. Everest 96 comes to mind...

When I climbed in Huntington (typically a full day car to car for me), I carried a 2000 cu in daypack containing food, water, a down jacket, spare hand insulation, spare head insulation, headlamp, map, compass, etc.* (I carried significantly more safety gear when hiking.) Plus, of course, the climbing gear: 3 tools (ice axes, north wall hammers, and/or ice hammers), rope, harness, ice screws, maybe a few rock pieces, slings, carabiners, rigid crampons, helmet, etc. So it was a pretty good load even without the avy gear. (The rope alone weighed ~8lbs.)

* When climbing close to the road (eg at Frankenstein), it was common practice to leave one's pack at the bottom of the climb. I have read recently that rodents have learned to raid the packs, so people may stop doing this.

Agreed--4 teams in a single gully significantly increases the risks. Anything dropped or knocked down by a higher team can hit a lower team. They also climbed (and rappelled on the descent) only one person at a time through the belayed section (the ice bulge)--with 12 people this consumed a huge amount of time, both up and down. Several independent simultaneous climbers would have been much faster if it had been possible**. (Solo or independent 2-man ropes would be fastest.)

** I don't know if conditions allowed this.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

A common theme in Western accident reports (e.g. Mt Hood) is parties using rope but no anchors. Climbers frequently overestimate their ability to self-arrest. One person trips and the whole team goes for a ride. Worse, one rope team slides into another party's rope, starting a chain reaction... The recent incident in Central Gully is interesting in that the use of ropes (rather than unroping for the upper part, as is commonly done) most likely saved a few lives, even without anchors. (Unroped, some of the members might never have arrested on their own. At the very least, three climbers stopped when their rope snagged a rock.)

Whether to simul-climb (unbelayed) while roped or to unrope is always a judgement call. If all are experienced, unroping may be better, but this party had a number of inexperienced climbers plus a one-legged climber. I suspect that the ropes were made up with at least one experienced climber per rope so that there would be at least one self-arrest per rope in case of a fall. And indeed, one falling rope was reported to have been stopped by one member's self arrest.

Probes and beacons aren't hugely useful unless a) rescuers know how to use them, b) rescuers can reach the victims within minutes. A skier who witnesses an avalanche that catches his buddy has a chance to ski down and find the buddy alive, but an ice climber usually can't get down fast enough.

Skiers also try to ski one at a time from safe spot to safe spot to minimize the chance that more than one gets caught in an avalanche. Thus there are likely to be unharmed rescuers near at hand. Roped climbers are less able to use this strategy. (Note also that belays can be ripped out by avalanches.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Yea.. if you are going to be roped in vertical terrain you should be using a belay.

That is the theory, but belayed climbing is slower than simul-climbing (with or without running belays). And if the route changes between needing and not needing belays, the time to rope and unrope adds up. Time can be a critical factor, particularly on longer climbs.

I don't know the details about the speed.. i still haven't even hiked Huntingtons in the summer (is it warm yet?) but i'm guessing in winter you could do some easy glissading on the way down once you got passed the ice section. either way it all depends on the fitness of the people involved and the conditions.

I don't know as I would call it easy glissading... The runout is a field of large rocks--if they aren't covered, you end up in them if you fall.

Remember that there had just been a very warm spell resulting in an ice crust on all of the snow (with new [slab...] snow in some places).

FWIW, I once saw a novice slide low down in the ravine and injure (break?) his ankle on one of the rocks. He was still far below the actual technical climbs... (He didn't have his crampons on yet and slid on a hard snow surface.)

Doug