ADKatie
New member
Frodo said:
Frodo, that was the best post EVER! I laughed so hard! Well written and well spoken. Now, it's time to go to the community room for TV hour... right after you take your pills. Here, let me wipe that little drool....
Babe who?
- Thread starter darren
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Frodo, that was the best post EVER! I laughed so hard! Well written and well spoken. Now, it's time to go to the community room for TV hour... right after you take your pills. Here, let me wipe that little drool....
JohnL
New member
dug,
You've obviously missed the point of my comments and your comments are obscured by some facts you may not be aware of.
The "Curse of the Babe" was "invented" by Boston sportswriter Dan Shaughnessy in his book, "The Curse of the Bambino" originally published in 1990. The only other previously written record of any mention of a "curse" was in a NY Times column by Peter Vescey not long before Shaughnessy's book was written. The birth of the curse is in our recent history, not something that is 86 years old.
The spirited rivalry is also a recent phenomenon, dating from the 1970's when the Red Sox and Yankees both had teams that were contending for the American League Pennant. This was before the days of Divisions and Wild Cards and lots of TV revenue. Prior to that, quite honestly, the Sox had rather dismal teams, except for the 1967 "Impossible Dream Team" and a few other years.
Check this out:
After the 1918 World Series win, the Sox finished as high as second place 4 times in the next 26 years (up to 1944). From 1945 to 1966, they finished in second place twice and first place once. Other than that, they were a second division team; meaning the bottom half of a 9 team league. So for 48 years, the Sox were at or near the bottom of the league, all long before they had a curse to blame it on.
1967 is when the Sox's fortunes began to turn around, with World Series berths in '67 and '75 and finishes in second and third place in all but one of the intervening years. This is when the real rivalry with the Yankees started. Quite honestly, it is most unlikely that you would have a rivalry between a first division team and a second division team. The Yankees also had their dog days but there were fewer of them.
The real birth of the rivalry was in the '70's with teams that were led by their spirited and determined catchers; Fisk and Munson. Both teams were competitive and in the days before playoffs, every regular season counted a little more than it does today. And the fact that the players from both teams just did not like each other. It was mean and nasty times.
The Sox fall from grace after 1918 was a result of a Yankee owner with money and a lousy team who needed players and a Sox owner with a great team who neded money. Many of the stars of the Yankees '20's teams were former Sox players who were sold to the Yankees. With bad owners, management, farm systems, trade choices and players, the Sox took a very long time to fully recover.
As far as the Yankees causing or being in a position to benefit from the "curse", try this out:
1946 - Yankees finished in 3rd place.
1967 - Yankees finished in 9th place.
1975 - Yankees finished in 3rd place.
1978 - Bucky Dent. Enough said.
1986 - Yankees finished in 2nd place, 5 1/2 games out.
2003 - A great series with two great teams that could have gone either way. Yanks were fortunate to have the last at bat.
Now, as far as your need for ungraciousness, knock yourself out. I honestly hope you feel better afterwards.
JohnL
You've obviously missed the point of my comments and your comments are obscured by some facts you may not be aware of.
The "Curse of the Babe" was "invented" by Boston sportswriter Dan Shaughnessy in his book, "The Curse of the Bambino" originally published in 1990. The only other previously written record of any mention of a "curse" was in a NY Times column by Peter Vescey not long before Shaughnessy's book was written. The birth of the curse is in our recent history, not something that is 86 years old.
The spirited rivalry is also a recent phenomenon, dating from the 1970's when the Red Sox and Yankees both had teams that were contending for the American League Pennant. This was before the days of Divisions and Wild Cards and lots of TV revenue. Prior to that, quite honestly, the Sox had rather dismal teams, except for the 1967 "Impossible Dream Team" and a few other years.
Check this out:
After the 1918 World Series win, the Sox finished as high as second place 4 times in the next 26 years (up to 1944). From 1945 to 1966, they finished in second place twice and first place once. Other than that, they were a second division team; meaning the bottom half of a 9 team league. So for 48 years, the Sox were at or near the bottom of the league, all long before they had a curse to blame it on.
1967 is when the Sox's fortunes began to turn around, with World Series berths in '67 and '75 and finishes in second and third place in all but one of the intervening years. This is when the real rivalry with the Yankees started. Quite honestly, it is most unlikely that you would have a rivalry between a first division team and a second division team. The Yankees also had their dog days but there were fewer of them.
The real birth of the rivalry was in the '70's with teams that were led by their spirited and determined catchers; Fisk and Munson. Both teams were competitive and in the days before playoffs, every regular season counted a little more than it does today. And the fact that the players from both teams just did not like each other. It was mean and nasty times.
The Sox fall from grace after 1918 was a result of a Yankee owner with money and a lousy team who needed players and a Sox owner with a great team who neded money. Many of the stars of the Yankees '20's teams were former Sox players who were sold to the Yankees. With bad owners, management, farm systems, trade choices and players, the Sox took a very long time to fully recover.
As far as the Yankees causing or being in a position to benefit from the "curse", try this out:
1946 - Yankees finished in 3rd place.
1967 - Yankees finished in 9th place.
1975 - Yankees finished in 3rd place.
1978 - Bucky Dent. Enough said.
1986 - Yankees finished in 2nd place, 5 1/2 games out.
2003 - A great series with two great teams that could have gone either way. Yanks were fortunate to have the last at bat.
Now, as far as your need for ungraciousness, knock yourself out. I honestly hope you feel better afterwards.
JohnL
JohnL said:Being a life long Yankee fan, I say congratulations to the Red Sox for a great season and for finally getting the monkey off of their back. I think this is great for baseball.
What I think is bad for baseball is the continued bad blood that I hear from the fans. To me, that's just bad form and poor sportsmanship. Maybe some people could care less about the sportsmanship 'cause they're so focused on frustration and/or retribution. I was always taught never to rub a loss in the loser's face because in the next game they could do it to you. Remember, there's only one thing worse than a sore loser and that's a sore winner.
So, to steal one of your former lines; Wait 'til next year!
JohnL
Show me a good loser, and I show you a loser...
bruno
New member
now sox fans can chant to the yanks (my yanks!) "2--thousand 2--thousand, 2--thousand!"
seriously, does the red sox organization have the will, the smarts, and the money (or rather, are they willin' to spend it?) it takes to win again. . .and again. . .and again?
i don't think so.
but congratulations just the same. it was fun to watch!
edit: i see someone beat me to the "2000" chant line!!
seriously, does the red sox organization have the will, the smarts, and the money (or rather, are they willin' to spend it?) it takes to win again. . .and again. . .and again?
i don't think so.
but congratulations just the same. it was fun to watch!
edit: i see someone beat me to the "2000" chant line!!
Last edited:
darren
Poobah Emeritus
arm said:
Red Bones some night next week????? Or should we look for a new venue?
- darren
darren
Poobah Emeritus
Peakbagr said:
Actually, Boston is St. Louis' daddy:
1957 NBA Championship: Celtics over the St. Louis Hawks
1970 Stanley Cup: Bruins over the St. Louis Blues
2001 Super Bowl: Patriots over the St. Louis Rams
2004 World Series: Red Sox over the St. Louis Cardinals
- darren
alpinista
Active member
Red Bones would be EXCELLENT!!!! Is it OK if a Yankees fan joins you? I promise no chants. I am first and foremost a baseball fan, and this was one of the most exciting seasons I've ever witnessed.
Bruno: I personally believe the new Sox owners and that, as the Boston Herald's Track would say, QT Theo Epstein, do have the smarts and the money and the creativity to give this team what it needs to keep winning. These folks are nowhere close to the Yawkeys -- not in how they treat players, nor most definitely not in how they treat fans. I know Fenway has been a cozy spot, but it wasn't always the most intimate and fan-friendly. It sure is now!
Bruno: I personally believe the new Sox owners and that, as the Boston Herald's Track would say, QT Theo Epstein, do have the smarts and the money and the creativity to give this team what it needs to keep winning. These folks are nowhere close to the Yawkeys -- not in how they treat players, nor most definitely not in how they treat fans. I know Fenway has been a cozy spot, but it wasn't always the most intimate and fan-friendly. It sure is now!
SherpaKroto
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I was doing this today. And it was a lot of fun. Finally.
Dropkick Murphys doing "Tessie" (top left), Varitek, Manny, and the Gov (top right), and the Statehouse during today's rally.
Dropkick Murphys doing "Tessie" (top left), Varitek, Manny, and the Gov (top right), and the Statehouse during today's rally.
SherpaKroto
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The Whackers will all catch at least a pint at the Station next weekend. Makes a mid-week Redbones visit a tough sell to Ms Sherpa.darren said:
alpinista
Active member
Mrs. Sherpa
Sherp -- perhaps not a tough sell if you invite her!!!
Sherp -- perhaps not a tough sell if you invite her!!!
Stan
Well-known member
Redbones is somewhat overrated in my opinion and can be a bummer for parking ... but convenient to the Red Line. I'd suggest Jake and Earle's Dixie Roadhouse's on Moody Street in Waltham ... plenty of parking but public transportation limited to commuter rail (Fitchburg line) and bus lines (mostly Cambridge connections at night). They play the blues and feature BBQ menu that is as good if not better than Redbones. Bands on weekends and nearby pubs offer some alternatives.
darren
Poobah Emeritus
Stan said:
I hear ya. I'd be up for Waltham. Is that place better than Bison County (another great BBQ place on Moody St in Waltham)?
- darren
the season is over. I am walking around in a daze in Red Sox Nation. I don't know if I can handle this. After years of disappointment Red Sox Nation is finally smiling with success, a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.
It is something that I was hoping for for a long time. If I find it to be to overwheming I could always become a Cubs fan.
It is something that I was hoping for for a long time. If I find it to be to overwheming I could always become a Cubs fan.
masshysteria
Member
This has been the most amazing two weeks! I know people who think that this is just a long dream, and that they're going to wake up and see Aaron Boone rounding third base....
Fellow Sox fans, have you ever seen such euphoria? It's incredible! I'm stuck out here in the DMZ between the Nation and the Empire, and there are signs evrywhere, people sporting the colors, and the Sox ARE the topic of coversation on everyones lips!
And who are Bucky F. Dent, Bill Buckner? The names don't ring a bell!
Did anyone go to the parade, and how was it? I heard Pedro got brushed back with a beanball.
Fellow Sox fans, have you ever seen such euphoria? It's incredible! I'm stuck out here in the DMZ between the Nation and the Empire, and there are signs evrywhere, people sporting the colors, and the Sox ARE the topic of coversation on everyones lips!
And who are Bucky F. Dent, Bill Buckner? The names don't ring a bell!
Did anyone go to the parade, and how was it? I heard Pedro got brushed back with a beanball.
alpinista
Active member
I didn't get to the parade, but I got to edit the stories about it. Pedro did get beaned by a baseball, thrown by someone on the shore of the Charles River. Still no idea who the idiot (not in the Sox player way) was who threw it. But I'm guessing it was some drunk who thought he/she could lob it to Pedro to get his autograph but then threw it fast and hit him in the forehead. Thankfully, Pedro wasn't hurt -- just dazed and left with a headache.
John Satterlee
Team Member
Red Sox Parade
RED SOX PARADE
By some chance of fate or divine intervention, I had a conference (I never, never go to conferences) in Boston this weekend and otherwise I never would have ever gone there on a such a day to such an event. The Hotel where the conference took place was two blocks from the parade route. We drove up Friday night and spent the night.
There was no way I was not going to the parade. I left after one hour of a boring speaker and staked out a place on Boylston and waited by myself, surrounded by strangers who shared in the moment. Words cannot describe it.
After an hour later, several friends from the conference joined me, including my favorite RED SOX friend whose husband and 2 teenage are Yankee fans.
The crowd was unbelievable, very large, very RED SOX and very well controlled. Absolutely unbelievable.
It did not matter that it was a cloudy, wet day with mist and on and off showers. Who even noticed?
The RED SOX appeared on a long train of Duckboats and the experience was absolutely indescribable: having the RED SOX a few feet away, waving. Smiling, being part of a crowd. On one of the boats were a few old time RED SOX players, I could see Johnny Pesky looking at the crowd smiling. Unbelievable.
My feet still haven't touched the ground after the World Series win, never mind the Yankees comeback.
We went back to the conference for lunch; I decided that there no way that I could stay there and listen to more boring speakers, so I headed back out, to try to get to Fenway. I was joined by another friend and we followed Boylston, the parade route in reverse, back to Fenway park. The streets were full of partying fans, the atmosphere was so great. How do you spell euphoria? .
We got to FENWAY and decided to wait for the players to return. Soon, the duckboat motorcade returned, and again duck after duck returned, and again it was indescribable.
Maybe it was because I didn't get much sleep the night before, or for that matter much sleep in the last few weeks. Maybe it was because of the past 48 years of being A RED SOX fan, but this was the most memorable of days.
RED SOX PARADE
By some chance of fate or divine intervention, I had a conference (I never, never go to conferences) in Boston this weekend and otherwise I never would have ever gone there on a such a day to such an event. The Hotel where the conference took place was two blocks from the parade route. We drove up Friday night and spent the night.
There was no way I was not going to the parade. I left after one hour of a boring speaker and staked out a place on Boylston and waited by myself, surrounded by strangers who shared in the moment. Words cannot describe it.
After an hour later, several friends from the conference joined me, including my favorite RED SOX friend whose husband and 2 teenage are Yankee fans.
The crowd was unbelievable, very large, very RED SOX and very well controlled. Absolutely unbelievable.
It did not matter that it was a cloudy, wet day with mist and on and off showers. Who even noticed?
The RED SOX appeared on a long train of Duckboats and the experience was absolutely indescribable: having the RED SOX a few feet away, waving. Smiling, being part of a crowd. On one of the boats were a few old time RED SOX players, I could see Johnny Pesky looking at the crowd smiling. Unbelievable.
My feet still haven't touched the ground after the World Series win, never mind the Yankees comeback.
We went back to the conference for lunch; I decided that there no way that I could stay there and listen to more boring speakers, so I headed back out, to try to get to Fenway. I was joined by another friend and we followed Boylston, the parade route in reverse, back to Fenway park. The streets were full of partying fans, the atmosphere was so great. How do you spell euphoria? .
We got to FENWAY and decided to wait for the players to return. Soon, the duckboat motorcade returned, and again duck after duck returned, and again it was indescribable.
Maybe it was because I didn't get much sleep the night before, or for that matter much sleep in the last few weeks. Maybe it was because of the past 48 years of being A RED SOX fan, but this was the most memorable of days.
SherpaKroto
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I made it to the parade by 9:00 AM Saturday morning. Friends had a suite (I'll use that term loosely) at the Parker House overlooking City Hall Plaza. Only complaint I have about the parade is that they had the duck boats cruising by way too fast (possibly because they extended the route and still wanted to keep it at 3 hours). We had a great day of it, made better by a good knowledge of Boston. A good day spent with good friends celebrating a RED SOX WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP! Finally found my way home at noon on Sunday!
I will agree that the crowd I saw was well behaved, friendly, and having a ball. See you next year
I will agree that the crowd I saw was well behaved, friendly, and having a ball. See you next year
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