Balsams Update - Go Big or Go home

[tomcat32]

Table Rock is definitely a nice hiking spot in the notch area. Several Waterfalls in the area.

 

[rup]

Is there any meaningful vertical there for a ski area ??

 

[MichaelJ]

1,000 feet of vertical. Take a look at
http://www.newenglandskihistory.com/NewHampshire/balsamswilderness.php

 

[Quietman]

They are looking at getting a windfarm setback variance to get closer to Dixville peak, which would push the vertical to 1,300 +/-

HERE is a link to some related info

 

[TCD]

In glancing at the map, it does look like if you developed the whole north facing basin, you would get quite a large ski area. Lots of potential. Don't know who owns the land or what the rules are.

 

[billski]

I've skied it. It's un-describable. Kind of felt like a fairy-tale area. So remote, so few people, the scenery was drop-dead gorgeous, the air was so cold, but the sun was so bright. If they had snowmaking, they didn't need it. The snow was perfect powder and packed powder.

Best damn treatment from people, the laid-back lodge, fireplace with couches and rocking chair and the food was outstanding. Which all goes to show, it's not all about vertical or terrain variety. The ski area seemed like just one more accoutrement, just like boating, hiking, swimming, golf, tennis, etc. If they're going to make a go of it, they need year round visitors.

I agree with tomcat who points out that Bretton Woods (and Stratton for that matter), keep 'em coming. In the 80's BW's moniker wast "low stress skiing". Rightly so.



Stay at JP, Kmart, Stowe, Bush or whatever if you need an adrenaline rush.

 

[peakbagger]

I think the target market would have to be the high income person who wants a ski area and golf course as a backdrop to a resort experience. They probably aren't going for the hard core skier out for significant terrain.

 

[peakbagger]

Long article about Less Otten's vision,

In a radio story there was mention of running a pipe to the Androscoggin for water for snowmaking

 

[Scubahhh]

The Balsams in the news again (still?)

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20140522/NEWS02/140529540

 

[Scubahhh]

Go big then, eh?

 

[peakbagger]

Recent update

http://www.colbsent.com/stories.php...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=JULY2114+Browser

 

[peakbagger]

A new update

http://nhpr.org/post/renovation-pro...n=nhbr&utm_content=NHBR+Business+News+Browser

When Les Otten owned Sunday River there were plans to run a pipe to the Androscoggin for water. There really is not an adequate snowmaking water supply for the Balsams so the right to bring water from the Androscoggin is important. Of course physically installing the pipe from Errol and up over Dixville notch is very expensive.

 

[peakbagger]

A new update, they are shooting for opening in 2016.

http://www.colebrookchronicle.com/Jan22015.pdf

I am still curious on the source of customers

 

[srhigham]

The only time that I stayed there, a significant number of customers were Quebecois. They even had bilingual waitstaff in the restaurant. I imagine that they would have to advertise heavily in eastern Canada to regain that demographic.

 

[peakbagger]

A new update from the Colebrook Chronicle on the project, the article starts on the lower right hand corner of the front page but the "meat" of it later on in the paper. http://www.colebrookchronicle.com/Feb202015.pdf

The rough summary is they have lot of financing lined up but they want the State to allow them to issue bonds that would be paid back with property taxes from the development. They need state action for that to happen but also the state ends up being potentially on the hook. To most folks I expect the details are akin to asking how hot dogs are made but it does indicate that there is a lot of behind the scenes activity. I expect with this winters snow fall, they are wishing they were open.

 

[sardog1]

Sigh.

"State and local governments across the United States use several types of property tax incentives for business, including property tax abatement programs, firm-specific property tax incentives, tax increment financing, enterprise zones, and industrial development bonds com- bined with property tax exemptions. The escalating use of property tax incentives over the last 50 years has resulted in local governments spending billions of dollars with little evidence of economic benefits.

"This report provides an overview of use of property tax incentives for business and offers several recommendations. State and local governments should consider forgoing these often wasteful incentive programs in favor of other, more cost-effective policies, such as customized job training, labor market intermediaries, and the provision of business services."

Rethinking Property Tax Incentives for Business

 

[peakbagger]

There is no local government in Dixville Notch, the major benefactor would be Coos County and the state room and meals tax. Colebrook would get subsidiary benefits as its basically a tourist based economy and adding Balsams would get a lot of folks employed (although I expect 70% would be seasonal). I expect Lancaster would also get a bit of boost as its along the way. Much as PILTs are abused, in this case I expect the majority of the land is currently in current use which pays almost no taxes if the project doesn't fly I expect they will rip down what is left and further reduce whatever tax base was there. If the state backs a bond and taxable properties are built, the PILT hopefully pays off the bonds and at least the surrounding economies gets a desperately needed short term boost from construction and a long term boost from service jobs. I realize seasonal service jobs aren't the greatest but it beats the alternative.

 

[sardog1]

TIF is a government subsidy for businesses that can't get private financing on terms that are economically viable. There's usually a pretty strong reason.

I'm not opposed to infrastructure improvements and the like that generally benefit a community or state or nation. But a thumb on the economic scale for an individual for-profit enterprise, not so much.

 

[Vermonster]

Speaking of government subsidies...

Woodburn’s Bill Aimed at Pease-Like Development Zone for Balsams Project

With plans for redevelopment of the Balsams property moving forward, Sen. Jeff Woodburn has introduced a “Balsams Revitalization” bill that sets the framework for financing and redevelopment of the property. “My bill creates a local development district modeled after the redevelopment of the former Pease Air Force Base,” Sen. Woodburn said, and “allows the state’s Business Finance Authority, of which I am a member, to guarantee $28 million in bonds, which would be the largest bond guarantee in the BFA’s history.”
<snip>(but of course then there is this little wrinkle)
Mr. Donovan’s summary also cites two major risks associated with the project: if it went over budget and Phase 1 could not be completed, and if the property was built but the developer was unable to sell. “If the redevelopment of the Balsams were to fail, the state would have to work with the bank to protect its financial interest and recover its funds,”

Source: Colebrook Sentinel http://www.colbsent.com/stories.php

 

[srhigham]

Got an email solicitation from Les Otten tonight. Balsams is looking for 400 people to buy timeshares useful for 100 days stay at the future Balsams per year. I would have had to reply and send my contact info to them in order to receive further info, which I declined to do. I imagine the buy-in is quite expensive.