Barebothable, crampons & snowshoes! ?

[Doc McPeak]

Please, for the sake of sanity, fun and all else that is sacred in the world of the woods...I hope some of the posters on this thread will not start a NY petition to ban Glissading!!!!!!

Live free and GLISSADE!!!!!!

Amen.

And this is one NYer who glissades any chance I get. If I struggle up it, I will glide down it. I also bareboot on occassion, but have shoes on my back when I do. I posthole once, the shoes go on.

As far as hiking up a glissade track, with my aggressive crampons, conquering a smooth track is better than breaking through deep powder any day of the week.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Skiing/snowshoing

These coments really partain to flatish areas, not steep areas.

If an area is only used for skiing, two tracks develop. The presence of these tracks make it easier to ski. That's why ski areas set tracks.

Snowshoers walking on these tracks destroy them, messing up the skiiers nice trail. If possible, showshoers should not walk in these ski tracks. It only takes one snowshoer to mess up ski tracks.

Now, winter hiking/snowshoeing is a relatively new 'fad' (not the best word, but best I can come up with for now.) In the past, many trails in the adirondacks were mostly used by skiers.... or at least the PERCENTAGE of skiers was much higher. Ski tracks had a good chance of remaining.

This is no longer true. Skiers just don't have the conditions they used to have. Some are bitter.

Things change.

 

[lumberzac]

I have to say nothing beats coming down a good slope on an unbroken trail. I just lean back on my tails and enjoy the ride. The only thing that I don't enjoy is the occasional snow up my back.

 

[dug]

So, just checking....

In the ADKs, it's OK to trash the trail if you are sliding down it, but not if you are walking up it and post-holing?

Hmmm....Seems a bit arbitrary in the rules that are laid out.

OBTW, my original reply is just a joke and is meant to be somewhat argumentative. I glissade as well. Just curious why some rules are OK and some aren't.

 

[Grumpy]

Just curious why some rules are OK and some aren't.

Politics.

Politics.

Politics.

Unmitigated by common sense.

G.

 

[leduc]

Depends on the snow conditions

On a hard packed and icy trail, I see no problem barebooting, makes sense.

If you posthole, then when it freezes, it leaves holes in the trail for a very long time, then I agree with Pin-Pin: wear snowshoes, this is not a matter of opinion, wear snowshoes, period.

So my rule is:
A) if you create hole of more than 1 in deep: snowshoes or not, this is okay
B) if you create holes more than 1 in deep, then snowshoes, and if it slows you down, please choose a shorter hike.

In powder snow, this is lerss critical. But in wet snow when any freezing would convert the trail to ice, again...

Please wear snowshoes. I gave the mandate to my friend Pin-Pin to patrol the trails and to use his "pin" to punish violators. (See avatar for a better explanation)...

I'm not as agressive and angry as my post may look like, and snowshoes are not yet a religion for me, but still, hikers please use judgement and wear snowshoes when appropriate.

Charles

use snowshoes.

 

[miehoff]

Leduc!

Your avatar is painful! Is that what we get if we posthole? Ahhhhhh.....!!!!!!!

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Re: Leduc!

Your avatar is painful! Is that what we get if we posthole? Ahhhhhh.....!!!!!!!

I think he must have replied to one of those SPAMs which we all erceive.. you know, those, "Increase ************" ones?¸

All goes to show... Never trust a spammer.

 

[miehoff]

Re: Re: Leduc!

I think he must have replied to one of those SPAMs which we all erceive.. you know, those, "Increase ************" ones?¸

All goes to show... Never trust a spammer.

Would love to get that URL! I am in complete trust.

 

[Mr. X]

Hey, it all goes back to the saying that you cannot legislate common sense. On another more interesting note, I heard that there is a group of people that purposely post-hole paths through our northeast mountains. The latest information released has linked them to an organization known as Al-Traila. Although the source of financing is still unknown the fact that fines are being paid off and the intentional slaughter of our trail systems condition is at risk around the globe remains. Apparently notes have been left behind in a scriptic Byblos that refers to the great satan and park services as the "Pharaoh of modern day times". Scary.

 

[percious]

To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is. I mean, snow is a DYNAMIC thing. If you post hole, then it will just snow tomorrow, and change the whole trail. It's not damaging the trail, because the trail is going to change anyway. Its not like you are killing alpine vegetation or anything. And last time I checked, my snowshoes glided easily over sets of post-holes. So really, who cares?
My buddy and I were travelling into marcy dam last february, and some guy was yelling at us for hiking on the "x-country ski" trail. Seriously, he needed to get a life. The snow is for all of us to enjoy, and its going to change anyway, so as long as you arent doing permanent damage to the environment, post hole all you want.
Btw, I wear my snowshoes pretty much all the time, because I hate post holing. Oh, and sliding on your but is a must do for the winter. Should we also ban sliding down slides into pools of cool water in the summer?

-percious

 

[Warren]

To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is.

I'm not a skier (yet) but the gist seems to be it mucks up the skiing. In the high peaks, where skiing has a historic foothold, where there's a lot of various types of use, where long approaches mean anything that speeds you up makes more things possible it does make sense.

I do think a postholed trail will slow down a snowshoer, the trail isn't nice and smooth like it gets when it's under a good snowpack.

 

[rhihn]

I'm not a skier (yet) but the gist seems to be it mucks up the skiing. In the high peaks, where skiing has a historic foothold, where there's a lot of various types of use, where long approaches mean anything that speeds you up makes more things possible it does make sense.

I do think a postholed trail will slow down a snowshoer, the trail isn't nice and smooth like it gets when it's under a good snowpack.

It also can ice over and melt, depending upon the weather. If I see ski tracks I will ALWAYS try to avoid them. But Percious made a good point that I brought up in an earlier post:

My buddy and I were travelling into marcy dam last february, and some guy was yelling at us for hiking on the "x-country ski" trail.

This same thing happened to me on the N/P trail once. Putting "politics" "common practice" and jerks aside, are there trails in the Adirondacks, flatish or otherwise, that are commonly hiked in the summer but are DESIGNATED FORMAL LEGAL x-c ski trails in the winter? In other words, are there winter trails where I, a non-skier, must avoid? If so, where is a list of these trails?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

In other words, are there winter trails where I, a non-skier, must avoid? If so, where is a list of these trails?

They aren't hiked in the summer, but there is the ski route up to Indian Falls and up into Avalanche Pass. There are also a number on the ADK land around the Loj. Even on the trail from the loj into Marcy dam, there are a few places where the ski route takes a slightly differrent path.

Then, the south meadows trail is prefered by skiers over the trail from the Loj.. It is wide enough that non-skiers should be able to not walk in the ski tracks, although many seem to like walking in them.

 

[rhihn]

They aren't hiked in the summer, but there is the ski route up to Indian Falls and up into Avalanche Pass. There are also a number on the ADK land around the Loj. Even on the trail from the loj into Marcy dam, there are a few places where the ski route takes a slightly differrent path.

Thanks, Pete. I've seen the postings for these ski trails while hiking. They are marked as ski trails. If a sign says "ski trail" I'm not going to snowshoe on it, period. But my experience has been that marked ski trails are relatively rare (maybe I need to get out more). But what about trails such as the N/P trail, Calamity Brook trail, trail to Marcy Dam, or any of number of other relatively level trails, that are not marked as winter ski trails (to my knowledge)? Again, I do NOT walk in ski tracks, and I don't mean to belabor this, but are there COMMONLY HIKED SUMMER trails that LEGALLY become ski trails in the winter, though not marked as such, and where I should not snowshoe (ranger could ticket)?

Just trying to do the "right" thing.

 

[ERL]

The answer to all this debate is simple... SKIS. skis never posthole and glide right over the ones that are already there and are much more fun to travel over snow with. you can travel nearly all the same terrain with skis as snowshoes and have more fun doing it. plus you get to whizz by all the snowshoers on their trudge down the moutain.


kick and glide

 

[tonycc]

The answer to all this debate is simple... SKIS. skis never posthole and glide right over the ones that are already there and are much more fun to travel over snow with. you can travel nearly all the same terrain with skis as snowshoes and have more fun doing it. plus you get to whizz by all the snowshoers on their trudge down the mountain.


kick and glide

and then the snowshoers can unwrap my broken and bloody body from around a tree...

The thought that people ski those trails amazes me.

Tony

 

[ADackR]

Thanks, Pete. I've seen the postings for these ski trails while hiking. They are marked as ski trails. If a sign says "ski trail" I'm not going to snowshoe on it, period. But my experience has been that marked ski trails are relatively rare (maybe I need to get out more). But what about trails such as the N/P trail, Calamity Brook trail, trail to Marcy Dam, or any of number of other relatively level trails, that are not marked as winter ski trails (to my knowledge)? Again, I do NOT walk in ski tracks, and I don't mean to belabor this, but are there COMMONLY HIKED SUMMER trails that LEGALLY become ski trails in the winter, though not marked as such, and where I should not snowshoe (ranger could ticket)?

Just trying to do the "right" thing. [/QUOTE]

I think what you found on the NP trail is that some people just think they own the trails. I know for fact that in Piseco there are designated ski trails AT THE AIRPORT and then just up the trail the NP trail comes into play.

where were you when this happened. I know that I don't mind if there is a snow shoe track already laid out. It's almost better on the trails because there is a nice groomed track in place. For instance, the clamity brook trail into Flowed lands is my favorite trail to ski. I usualy hit that up 3-4 times a year...

 

[Mark]

Originally posted by percious
To be honest with you guys, i dont see what the big deal is. I mean, snow is a DYNAMIC thing. If you post hole, then it will just snow tomorrow, and change the whole trail. It's not damaging the trail, because the trail is going to change anyway. Its not like you are killing alpine vegetation or anything. And last time I checked, my snowshoes glided easily over sets of post-holes. So really, who cares?
...
The snow is for all of us to enjoy, and its going to change anyway, so as long as you arent doing permanent damage to the environment, post hole all you want.

There may be no permanent damage, but post-holing damages the trail for anyone who hikes after you and could very well make the trail dangerous. Consider the following likely scenario: a hiker leaves a set of post-holes on a soft trail. Temperatures drop and it snows a few inches. Those post-holes are now pretty hard to see on the trail and as hard as concrete.

This happened to me coming down from the Hancocks last winter. I should have been able to bare boot on the hard trail. However, after falling into a hidden post-hole and almost breaking my lower leg, I had to put on snow shoes for the descent. Even then, if I stepped on a post-hole, the snow shoe slipped with nothing for the cleats to dig into.

Please be considerate to those who will follow you. If you are post-holing, switch to snow shoes or turn around.

Oh, and stay off designated cross country ski trails, or at least stay off the ski tracks as much as possible.

 

[Grumpy]

A thought . . .

Winter hiking would be great fun, were it not for some of the skiers you run into (or is it the other way around?)!

All in good fun, guys.

G.