Bear Canisters

[Kevin Rooney]

I've had a Garcia for a number of years, and as Stinkyfeet points out, there are now lighter alternatives. If I did alot of backpacking in bear country, I'd probably replace it. But, I don't, so I just put up with the extra ounces and bulkiness.

In terms of durability & "bear-proofness", I've been told it's still the gold standard.

 

[TEO]

I took it back to EMS shortly after it was announced that they weren't secure anymore. EMS was reluctant to take it back, but did so anyways when I indicated that I only wanted store credit.

There is a common misconception that the BearVaults are not longer approved for the High Peaks now that yellow-yellow has figured out how to open them. My understanding is that this is not true- you can still use the BearVaults in the High Peaks. Just be aware that they might not be as secure as you'd want them to be.

Yet another sign why EMS isn't the store it once was. BearVault advised customers who bought their products for use in the Eastern High Peaks to return it to the store at which they purchased the bear canister for a full refund. (BearVault will, in turn, refund that store the $38 they paid for it.) Shame on EMS for not honoring this eagerly.

Regarding your second paragraph, there is bear canister display at the Loj trailhead building and it shows the damage that Yellow-Yellow did to a BearVault. I'm almost positive that it expressly says that BearVaults do not meet the canister regulation in the Eastern High Peaks.

 

[rhihn]

The BearVault manufacturer states the following, in part, regarding Yellow-Yellow:
Accordingly, BearVault recommends against using BearVault canisters in the Lake Colden/Marcy Dam corridor and the Johns Brook valley as these are within the bears' territory. You can freely use BearVaults elsewhere.

As for official regulations, all I can find on the NYSDEC site is the following:

6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."

I might have missed it, but I don't find a regulation that says specific models are required or forbidden in the Eastern HP.

 

[DSettahr]

Yet another sign why EMS isn't the store it once was. BearVault advised customers who bought their products for use in the Eastern High Peaks to return it to the store at which they purchased the bear canister for a full refund. (BearVault will, in turn, refund that store the $38 they paid for it.) Shame on EMS for not honoring this eagerly.

Regarding your second paragraph, there is bear canister display at the Loj trailhead building and it shows the damage that Yellow-Yellow did to a BearVault. I'm almost positive that it expressly says that BearVaults do not meet the canister regulation in the Eastern High Peaks.

I returned it right away, before BearVault issued the statement. It worked out to my benefit anyways, as I used the store credit on a Garcia canister.

As for the display, is it a DEC display, or just an Adirondack Mountain Club display advising hikers against using the BearVault? The High Peaks Information Center (HPIC) is operated by the ADK, not the DEC. I'd guess that it's probably an ADK informational display.

My understanding is that there was a miscommunication somewhere, and the assistant rangers for the High Peaks were incorrectly advised that the BearVaults were no longer approved. They started enforcing this "non-existent regulation," leading to confusion, and resulting in hikers falsely believing that this was a DEC regulation.

To date, I have not seen any official announcement from the DEC stating that the BearVaults are not approved. The bear canister page on the DEC's website makes no mention of the BearVaults no longer being approved. In fact, it states that:

6 NYCRR Paragraph 190.13(b)(2) defines a bear-resistant canister as "a commercially made container constructed of solid, non-pliable material manufactured for the specific purpose of resisting entry by bears."

Note that is says resisting, not preventing. For all intents and purposes, the BearVault still meets these requirements. As has others have stated in this thread, no company will advertise their canisters as being 100% "bear proof."

Does that mean you aren't an idiot for using a BearVault at Marcy Dam? Of course not.

 

[TCD]

Now the typo above in this thread gives me an idea... "Bearvolt."

How about one with batteries, that gives a little electric shock if you handle it for more than a few seconds without turning off the switch?

(I know, this is my second "electric shock" idea...)

I wonder if a little shock would repel a bear? Or maybe it would enrage the bear, and cause it to smash the canister, and then come looking for you in camp...

 

[spider solo]

I also have the yellow Bear Keg Counter Assault... the small size about 13" tall about 8 or 9 inches wide. seems pretty light when empty.
The lid is stamped I G B C
Last year was my 1st year using it. I loved it.

But I'm not carrying it in my backpack. It fits perfectly into the hatch of my kayak.
I use it now for all the overnighters whether in bear country or not....to keep out the 'little critters" that are far more apt to get at my food.
For much the same reason I also bring a Ursula bag but I don't think it would be difficult for a bear to ransack..

I did see one version of a canister that was a backpack unto it's self. This was in Canada and they were used by folks canoe camping and portaging. I have no idea how comfortable the are to use...but they do exist (though I could not say if they were a certified) and may be practical if you are traveling with a group who can share the load.

(I don't want to drift off thread to much but when in bear country I carry one of those small air horns they sell most everywhere. I've never had to put it to the test but I did sleep more soundly at night.... Excellent for that false sense of security I was looking for.)

 

[rhihn]

Also a little off-topic, but still related:

A friend of mine worked with Granite Gear to develop the Nimbus Core pack. I saw a prototype of it, and I like the concept. Essentially it's designed with the idea of putting a bear canister (or possibly other gear) in the center (core) but separate from the rest of the gear, which wraps around the canister:

http://www.granitegearstore.com/Nimbus-Core-P227C49.aspx
http://inventorspot.com/articles/backpack_bears_granite_gear_nimbus_core
http://uncooped.com/chris-weiss/posts/1315-granite-gear-s-funky-open-topped-bear-canister-backpack
http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/backcountry-food/page/2/

I found the space a little too stingy for my summer needs (John Muir Trail hike), but for some trips it may be quite useful.

 

[chinooktrail]

Thanks to Rhihn I found this link;

http://calipidder.com/wp/2009/05/bear-canisters-the-pros-and-cons-of-different-designs/

Great info so far, keep it coming, and thread drifts have all been useful as well!

 

[Nif]

Just let me know if/when you want to take my garcia out for a test drive.....I'll bring it North for you.

Just ask Steve-O with bear cannisters it's love at first carry

 

[Gremlin]

Woops. I checked and I use the Garcia. Wrong vote; sorry.

 

[Stan]

I was paddle camping near someone who spent an hour one morning searching for his bear proof canister that a racoon made off with. He found it, eventually, unopened. Can't say I was interested in the brand.

I'd bet a dose of bear spray would go a long way to de-acclimating bears to human food ... maybe two doses ... one for the bear and one for the human.

 

[DougPaul]

I'd bet a dose of bear spray would go a long way to de-acclimating bears to human food ... maybe two doses ... one for the bear and one for the human.

No it wouldn't. The deterrence is caused by the pain from spraying a high concentration in the bear's face. In lower concentrations, it is just a seasoning (for both bears and humans). Bears also like to investigate novel smells...

Doug

 

[TCD]

...electricity...

 

[Stan]

No it wouldn't. The deterrence is caused by the pain from spraying a high concentration in the bear's face. In lower concentrations, it is just a seasoning (for both bears and humans). Bears also like to investigate novel smells...

Doug

I wasn't thinking about seasoning the bait!

Another deterrent relates to the fact that bears make good rugs and I've heard various opinions on bear meat thought I suspect, like a lot of wild game, it depends a lot on how well dressed they are ... and I don't mean the quality of their haberdasher.

 

[chinooktrail]

Hum, it seems we have gone from trying to keep bears from eating our tasty freeze dried meals to wondering how tasty bears are themselves...



Thanks for all your input and comments.