Best Animal Control Tool

[BIGEarl]

Taser versus Stun Gun versus Pepper Spray. Which is best for bear control?

I know, there’s a side benefit to each related to canine control but that’s not the topic of this post.

I want to decide the tool to have on-hand when I become the target of an attack by an aggressive, uncontrolled animal. I don’t necessarily want to be able to kill the animal – that’s what hunting season is for, but disabling it for an extended period would be my interest.

There are many available products of each type in a wide range of prices. I guess my first decision is the type of deterrent. That’s where I could use some help.

Any help or first-hand information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[giggy]

first hand info:

yea, save your money and don't buy it unless your going out West where is an an actual threat of an animal attack.

10+ years hiking and climbing in the whites and I (or anyone I know) have not once had a problem (or even a close problem) with any type of animal and that includes dogs.

not trying to be a smart ass, but whats the need for a stun gun in the mountains of new england?

 

[Jay H]

Rather than one of those compressed air horns which may not work when needed or be environmentally bad, my friend had one of these this weekend which he uses kayaking:

http://www.orionsignals.com/Marine/Products/sound-signals/blasterhorn.html

Orion Blaster Horn


This horn exceeds USCG regulations and produces 120 decibels of sound that can be heard over a mile away. It is environmentally safe, no freon is required. Includes heavy duty 24" lanyard

120dbs, no moving parts, no CFCs, etc. etc... no problem with leaking o-rings like an Air Zonds airhorn... Is also bright orange...

I bet it would freeze a lot of animals (and humans) in their tracks..

Jay

 

[Seeker]

What giggy said.

 

[David Metsky]

Precautionary warning - Keep this civil. A question has been asked about some tools for use in the woods. Do not make this an argument about animals.

-dave-

 

[David Metsky]

Having said that, a taser only works when you are in contact with the bear, which is what you are trying to avoid. I agree that in the event that you need some self-defense tool for bears (and I've never needed one in 20+ years of hiking in the Whites) a ski pole or a loud horn would be far better then anything like a taser or bear spray. Both of those require some level of coordination and competency to use, both can be dangerous to yourself and others if misused.

 

[--M.]

I'd have to go with Giggy on this: by the time you get to Tasering, hasn't the bear already got the drop on you? I think the battle is to be won or lost at the fifty-yard line, where loud noises and big shows are your friends, not up close where ... "You've gotta get up close like this and bada-bing! you blow their brains all over your nice Ivy League suit."

With apologies to Mssrs Coppola and Puzo.

 

[Amicus]

Earl,

As to bears, buckyball, BigMoose and I had the benefit of a lecture nine days ago, returning from our Moxie hike, from "Bear," who described himself as a Maine guide and was certainly armed for bear-hunting, with his comrades. He looked the part too, and described the individual bear families that he claims inhabit the Moxie ridge.

Unlike giggy, Bear thinks black bears are dangerous, at least in that part of Maine at this time of year. He claimed that bear-hunters start running dogs after them as early as June, before the season opens, to train the dogs, so that by now the bears have reached a peak of irritability.

As Big Moose mentioned in his TR "Five Finest 50 Days":

"Bear couldn’t believe we wimpish hikers dared venture into the woods unarmed, without guns, or at least knives. . . .
"Fortunately, Bear said having a whistle handy was nearly as good as a knife; a loud blast from a whistle confuses bears, and they’ll run."

Bear also said that a taser would be useless, but that pepper spray would probably work.

 

[Chip]

I'd carry a Blaster Horn, like Jay H's, around here if you're so inclined. It has at least 2 uses (emergency signal and animal deterant) and you wouldn't do any collateral damage to yourself or others using it (other than temp deafness).

Having said that, my friend that's now managing Fishing Bridge RV Park in Yellowstone has been hiking and hunting in WY & MT for 25 years. He can carry anything (and has), has only had a couple of close encounters and now carries only a big can of pepper spray. The one time he used it was on a stray dog attacking his neighbors dog and everyone got an eye-full, but it did work.

 

[Jay H]

I thought I'd also post this product below... As a cyclist, I've heard of this cycling product:

http://www.deltacycle.com/product.php?g=1

As a commuter, it is much louder than a standard bike bell, but as I mentioned in my Orion marine horn post, this Air Zounds is compressed air (via a road bike pump) and uses compressed air in differing levels, you can give short loud bursts or one long loud bursts (til you run out of pressure). however, it isn't infinite unless you carry a bike pump and you are dealing with the seal on the bottle. The Orion one uses your lungs...

As far as bears go, talking to a ranger at Wonder Lake in Denali, she told me that they have more problems with black bears and black bears are much more unpredictable than the brown/grizzliers hence, the black bears were considered more dangerous than the larger browns or the inland grizzlies... FWIW..

Jay

 

[David Metsky]

I misread "dog" when BigEarl wrote "bear", my apologies. There have been several dog threads recently and I jumped the gun.

But the advice remains; bear encounters are vanishingly rare on dayhikes and quite rare on overnights. Tasers still require you to be in contact with animals for them to be any use, and by then it's too late. Bear Spray can be useful in the right circumstances, but 20+ years of hiking in the Whites leads me to believe that it is not needed.

Your chance of having a bear encounter that is more then seeing a bear running away from you is too rare for me to worry about. In the event that a bear is interested in you, proper actions (making noise, looking large, not running, understanding about bluff charges) will be much more useful then bear spray.

Sorry again for the hijack.

 

[DougPaul]

http://www.orionsignals.com/Marine/Products/sound-signals/blasterhorn.html

120dbs, no moving parts, no CFCs, etc. etc... no problem with leaking o-rings like an Air Zonds airhorn... Is also bright orange...

Frequent use of a 120db horn/whistle is likely to cause permanent ear damage.

Doug

 

[BIGEarl]

.....

"Fortunately, Bear said having a whistle handy was nearly as good as a knife; a loud blast from a whistle confuses bears, and they’ll run."

......

Fox40 are the whistles commonly used by officials in most sporting events. I have a couple Fox40's and always keep one close at hand when hiking. Another spare Fox40 is somewhere near the bottom of my pack. The rated output is 115 decibels.

Would that fit the description of "a loud blast from a whistle"?

A simple noisemaker wasn't something I hadn't initially considered.

Interesting.

 

[DougPaul]

Taser versus Stun Gun versus Pepper Spray.

The Taser fires two electrodes, which might not penetrate thick fur. It appears that stun guns are similar.

Pepper spray is proven, but is only very short range (10-20 ft, IIRC) and doesn't work very well (short range and you get it too...). And, IIRC, pepper spray is also legally a weapon in some places.

Doug

 

[dentonfabrics]

The problem I have with pepper spray/bear spray is that it could turn a harmless situation into a potentially lethal one. Obviously, you'd probably try to spray the bear as it is charging at you. But as you know, the VAST majority of bear charges are bluff charges. What I wonder is, could you turn a bluff charge into a full fledged attack if your posture becomes aggressive by weilding a can of spray? I can see how using this could make a scarey, but harmless, situation a whole lot worse. I think that's worth some consideration.

I'll admit to carrying pepper spray when i hike solo, but I carry it for dogs (in my opinion, dogs are the only animal in the woods who has no fear of humans). I've had 5 seperate bear encounters (twice involving mother and cubs; supposedly the most dangerous type of encounter) and each time the bear(s) either walked or ran away. I'm not afraid of black bears anymore.


bob

 

[DougPaul]

As far as bears go, talking to a ranger at Wonder Lake in Denali, she told me that they have more problems with black bears and black bears are much more unpredictable than the brown/grizzliers hence, the black bears were considered more dangerous than the larger browns or the inland grizzlies... FWIW..

Bear behavior varies by region. Black bears in the Pacific Northwest are more aggressive than our relatively tame NE bears.

Doug

 

[Dugan]

What I wonder is, could you turn a bluff charge into a full fledged attack if your posture becomes aggressive by weilding a can of spray? I can see how using this could make a scarey, but harmless, situation a whole lot worse. I think that's worth some consideration.

I don't know if this applies to bears, but it definitely applies to dogs. I would guess that it can be generalized in that anything that causes pain without disabling an animal carries with it the likelihood of escalating the situation. This is because the instinct of most animals is to lash out at whatever they perceive as presenting a threat or causing pain.

Good point, DougPaul, about taser electrodes and the insulating value of fur.

 

[Mike P.]

Good to know about the whistle, i keep one on my keychain, always in my shorts.

The bears out west are smarter too, well at least at getting into cars as car campers near Whitney Portal can no longer leave food in the car, the bears have figured out how to get in.

 

[Amicus]

Fox40 are the whistles commonly used by officials in most sporting events. I have a couple Fox40's and always keep one close at hand when hiking. Another spare Fox40 is somewhere near the bottom of my pack. The rated output is 115 decibels.

Would that fit the description of "a loud blast from a whistle"?

A simple noisemaker wasn't something I hadn't initially considered.

Yes, this was all that Bear meant. He claims that black bears hate high-pitched sounds and that a couple of good toots by someone with a little wind power (which I think includes both of us ) will nearly always make them scatter, in situations where they otherwise wouldn't. We all liked this advice because we all have whistles already (although I had been thinking of mine mostly as a way to reestablish contact on a bushwhack, if you get separated from somebody).

I should add that Bear was talking only about black bears as dangerous. Similar to a point made above, he claimed that black bears kill more people than grizzlies and brown bears combined. (He also is firmly of the "stand tall and wave your arms" school, vs. "run as fast as you can".)

 

[DougPaul]

The problem I have with pepper spray/bear spray is that it could turn a harmless situation into a potentially lethal one. Obviously, you'd probably try to spray the bear as it is charging at you. But as you know, the VAST majority of bear charges are bluff charges. What I wonder is, could you turn a bluff charge into a full fledged attack if your posture becomes aggressive by weilding a can of spray? I can see how using this could make a scarey, but harmless, situation a whole lot worse. I think that's worth some consideration.

I'll admit to carrying pepper spray when i hike solo, but I carry it for dogs (in my opinion, dogs are the only animal in the woods who has no fear of humans). I've had 5 seperate bear encounters (twice involving mother and cubs; supposedly the most dangerous type of encounter) and each time the bear(s) either walked or ran away. I'm not afraid of black bears anymore.

One should be careful not to confuse Grizzlies with Blacks. Grizzlies probably do most of the bluff charges. Blacks don't generally charge--all they usually want is your food. (And as I noted earlier, there are also regional variations in typical bear behavior.)


The following advice is for NE black bears. Other locations and species can be/are different.

Proper behavior on your part is a big help--make noise as you travel (ie don't surprise the bear), travel in groups (stay together), don't try to take food from a bear (once it has your food, it becomes its food...). Mothers attacking to protect cubs appear to be quite rare. Dogs have been known to bring an angry bear back to its owner. Act big and make noise if you have a close encounter--generally the bear will leave the scene after it detects you. Shouting or clapping are often used, a whistle is probably ok too.

Black bears will occasionally stalk humans as food. Very rare. If one is stalking you or actually attacks you, fight back.

Remember too that bears are individuals and may vary in their response to a situation.

A not uncommon scenario is that human and bear surprise and frighten each other, both run off in different directions...

Get a copy of "Bear Attacks, Their Causes and Avoidance" by Stephen Herrero if you want a more complete version from a pro.

Doug