So we all know that it is not within the rules of the 4k committee to use any type of wheeled or tracked vehicle to approach a peak via a trail. Does anyone know if it's within the rules to use a bicycle to approach the Trailhead if the forest service road has not yet been opened for the spring? Such as bicycling the Sawyer River rd to the Signal Ridge TH? Would this disqualify the peak?
Biking the forest service roads...
- Thread starter Jasonst
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Tramper Al
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Sure would, because the road is closed to cars.Jasonst said:
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Hmmm found this on the 4000 footer website...
...Q. Can I use a mountain bike while bagging a peak?
A. The increased popularity of mountain bikes apparently makes it necessary to come up with some sort of policy. Please remember that this is a club for hikers; not that we object to trail bikes per se, but we want to preserve the tradition of climbing on foot, not on bikes. In winter we have absolutely forbidden the use of snowmobiles, even when a road is passable to ordinary cars in summer. However, a similar policy on trail bikes seems a bit excessive. Therefore we suggest that we all attempt to live by the following standard: it is acceptable to use bikes on logging roads that are not part of officially maintained trails if the road would be fairly easily passable to an average four-wheel-drive vehicle (not an ATV) without "heroic measures" such as winches. If you think a jeep might not make it, then please walk. If everyone can be reasonable about self-enforcing this standard then we won't be forced to come up with more excruciating technicalities.
...Q. Can I use a mountain bike while bagging a peak?
A. The increased popularity of mountain bikes apparently makes it necessary to come up with some sort of policy. Please remember that this is a club for hikers; not that we object to trail bikes per se, but we want to preserve the tradition of climbing on foot, not on bikes. In winter we have absolutely forbidden the use of snowmobiles, even when a road is passable to ordinary cars in summer. However, a similar policy on trail bikes seems a bit excessive. Therefore we suggest that we all attempt to live by the following standard: it is acceptable to use bikes on logging roads that are not part of officially maintained trails if the road would be fairly easily passable to an average four-wheel-drive vehicle (not an ATV) without "heroic measures" such as winches. If you think a jeep might not make it, then please walk. If everyone can be reasonable about self-enforcing this standard then we won't be forced to come up with more excruciating technicalities.
VFTTop'r
New member
I don't see how it would. What's the difference, driving a car or riding a bike, you are only going to the trailhead? 
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Tramper Al
Guest
There is no difference. But don't you see, the road is closed, so he cannot drive a car. Therefore he may not ride a bike either. This is my understanding.VFTTop'r said:
David Metsky
Well-known member
The rule is often interpreted as if you could legally drive the road on the day of the hike then you can bike it instead. But if the road is gated then the trailhead is at the gate.
Gene once gave the example that if the FS opened the gate on the Livermore Road (which is usually gated yearround) then you could drive or bike it on that day, regardless if it would be closed the next day. So, based on that, I'd say you cannot bike up a road that has been gated for winter and still count the peak for your 4000'ers.
-dave-
Gene once gave the example that if the FS opened the gate on the Livermore Road (which is usually gated yearround) then you could drive or bike it on that day, regardless if it would be closed the next day. So, based on that, I'd say you cannot bike up a road that has been gated for winter and still count the peak for your 4000'ers.
-dave-
Panama Jack
New member
No answer yet
The quote from the FTFC website was not all that clear, then Metsky's answer made it even foggier. I don't think we have a clear answer yet.
The quote from the FTFC website was not all that clear, then Metsky's answer made it even foggier. I don't think we have a clear answer yet.
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Sherpa John
Guest
Hmmm... I shook my Magic 8-Ball and it says, "Ask Again Later"
bunchberry
New member
still unclear...
getting back to an earlier statement that i am still unclear on, would biking part of the lincoln woods trail in my attempt of Owls head this summer disqualify it from counting as a completed 4000 footer by the club?
getting back to an earlier statement that i am still unclear on, would biking part of the lincoln woods trail in my attempt of Owls head this summer disqualify it from counting as a completed 4000 footer by the club?
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Sherpa John
Guest
Bunchberry... DEFINATELY ILLEGAL Activity there... shame shame. Get back out there and do it in the rain like the rest of us.
Jason... yes... Eric Savage
Get back out there and do it in the rain like the rest of us. Jason... yes... Eric Savage
bunchberry
New member
well fortunately I haven't done it yet..."this summer" means this upcoming summer, and i am trying to make plans...thanks for the info! side note--what is an average range of time that i should i expect it to take (all 18 miles in a day)?
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Sherpa John
Guest
Opps.... My bad.. forgot my readin glasses... Ummm... Sarah and I did Owl's head on a misty scummy day last summer in July. The whole 18 Miles took us about 7/8 hours or so.
David Metsky
Well-known member
To count as a 4000'er for this list, you can drive as far as is legal, then you must proceed on foot (no bikes). For a gated road that means you drive to the gate, and hike or ski from there. The fact that the road may be ungated in the future or was ungated in the past isn't relevant, it must be drivable on the day of the hike. The trailheads start at the gate.
The reason this rule has gotten a bit hazy is that it's legal and possible to drive a jeep on some woods roads much further than a standard passanger car could go, allowing some intrepid drivers the ability to shorten their hikes. But this really doesn't apply to gated roads, where the rules seem pretty clear.
This may not be written on the FTFC site, but it has been discussed by the committee a few times on the AMC BBS. I may have faulty recall, it wouldn't be the first time. I agree, that writing this on the FTFC site could clear things up. The piece that is missing is that it must be both legal and passable for a car in order for you to use a bike. The gate would rule that out.
-dave-
EDIT: On second thought, I'm not so sure anymore if I recall the conversations from a few years ago correctly. A clarification would be useful.
The reason this rule has gotten a bit hazy is that it's legal and possible to drive a jeep on some woods roads much further than a standard passanger car could go, allowing some intrepid drivers the ability to shorten their hikes. But this really doesn't apply to gated roads, where the rules seem pretty clear.
This may not be written on the FTFC site, but it has been discussed by the committee a few times on the AMC BBS. I may have faulty recall, it wouldn't be the first time. I agree, that writing this on the FTFC site could clear things up. The piece that is missing is that it must be both legal and passable for a car in order for you to use a bike. The gate would rule that out.
-dave-
EDIT: On second thought, I'm not so sure anymore if I recall the conversations from a few years ago correctly. A clarification would be useful.
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VFTTop'r
New member
Just use the "Don't ask, Don't tell" principal.
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RoySwkr
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The intent is that the AMC FTFC is a club for hikers, and anybody who wants to bike or snowmobile to summits should form their own club.David Metsky said:
A few years ago (well quite a few) the rule was that you could only drive where a standard passenger car could go. You could use a 4wd but had to park it where a car would park. That was before SUVs were common and the intent was that hikers should hike and those who could afford 4wd should not be given unfair advantage. I believe that 4 of the first 5 to climb the New England 3K did not own 4wd.
Of course once all the yuppies bought SUV the rule had to be amended. This is really more applicable to winter and 3K peaks as in summer it is gates and not bad roads that affect the 4K.
I believe the intent with bikes is that those who want to do a bike shuttle or arrive by bike should be allowed to do so, but the bike should replace what is driven in a car rather than what is hiked. Hence you should not bike where you can't drive THAT DAY. Incidentally the point may be moot for WMNF roads as many of the seasonal gates say FOOT TRAVEL ONLY so you mayn't bike them anyway.
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