Binoculars

[dvbl]

Looking for binoculars for hiking. Of course, I want it all: quality, price, size, and weight. Biggest regret while at Yellowstone/Teton was not having binoculars.

Any suggestions on brand, model, etc?

 

[Tom Rankin]

Looking for binoculars for hiking. Of course, I want it all: quality, price, size, and weight. Biggest regret while at Yellowstone/Teton was not having binoculars.

Any suggestions on brand, model, etc?

Since you mention Yellowstone, I will talk about day as well as night viewing.

If you are going out mostly during the day, look for a model that has a ratio of aperture to magnification that is small, like 3. For instance 24mm / 8x mag = 3. This type of binocular will work well in the daylight but poorly at night. If you bought a pair of 70mm binocs with 10x mag (I know, very large, but I pack them once in a while!) the ratio is 7. This is good for night time viewing.

The ratio is the size of the light 'pencil' that comes out of the binoculars. (Hold them about a foot away from your eyes, you can see it). If it's small, you get a narrow beam of light, but this is ok in the daytime as your pupil is constricted. 7 is about as high as you can usefully use at night, since most people's pupils don't get any bigger than 7mm fully dilated.

I'm planning to bring a small telescope for http://flagsonthe48.org, so I can search for other flags on distant summits!

 

[Puck]

Looking for binoculars for hiking. Of course, I want it all: quality, price, size, and weight. Biggest regret while at Yellowstone/Teton was not having binoculars.

Any suggestions on brand, model, etc?

Unfortunately you get what you paid for. Tom brings up some good points about the time of day you will be using them. 70mmx10 are you a hawk watcher???

A less expensive pair maynot hold up if dropped or bumped. Poro prisms can get knocked out of alignment.

If you are using them mainly in the woods you need to consider the width of your field of view as well as close focus. Higher magnification will also give you a shallow depth. If the bird jumps in any direction you will need to refocus or find the bird all over again.

Please excuse my birding bias. I know some people just want to scan the landscape.

http://www.eagleoptics.com/index.asp?dept=1&type=27&purch=0

This is a good educational web site.

 

[Tom Rankin]

70mmx10 are you a hawk watcher???

I've done that a few times, with my son. The Gunks, near by, are a great place to do such. Actually the pairs I own are 11x80 and 15x70!

My interest in large binoculars is mainly from my love of Astronomy.

I schlepped a large pair of binocs thru the Pressies a few years ago, but it rained every night! I was supposed to be the 'naturalist' at 3 huts. So instead, we pulled out astronomy books, which every hut had, and looked at pictures and talked about the stars instead of watching them. Better than nothing!

 

[sardog1]

I'm going to pile on here with another mostly birder's perspective, before the "less is better" crowd chimes in.

Bright views come from larger objective lenses (40 mm and up), in combination with superior glass and some other design aspects.

Light weight and small size come from smaller objective lenses (20-36 mm) that afford much dimmer views, even with with superior glass and design.

Bright views are an advantage all the time, for every user. The less light coming to your eyes, the more those eyes work to overcome the dimness. Work = fatigue. Work is also caused by inferior glass. Birders spend a lot of time looking through binos, they like large objective lenses, and they usually spend a fair bit of cash on their binos to get good quality.

I carry a pair of 10 x, 50 mm for waterfowl, landscapes, and Alaska. I carry a pair of 8 x, 42 for woodland birds and Northeastern wildlife. The former improves my odds of seeing distant stuff. The latter improves my odds of tracking stuff that's moving near me. You can read why these differences occur at various bino sites.

The one uncontrovertible truism with optics is that you really get what you pay for. The binocular quality ranges usually run from (1) crap and near-crap (under $100); (2) acceptable until you see the next grade ($100-200); (3) pretty decent and occasionally very good ($200-300); (4) hard to find faults ($300-500); and (5) lifetime binocs ($500+).

EDIT: Some tips for the shopping trip. Go somewhere with a large selection to try. And under no circumstances use a window to get a long view outside. You're buying binoculars, not a replacement window. You won't see what the binos can do if you burden them with a layer of really cheap glass in front of them. If the store interior isn't big enough, persuade a salesperson to accompany you outside or let you test drive them at the door.

 

[Grumpy]

Olympus 8 X 25 compact weatherproof binocs are (is?) a regular part of my hiking kit. Weight is about 11-12 oz and they fit in the palm of my hand or in a pants or jacket pocket. They are very adequate for full daylight and even some (brighter) twilight viewing. I picked them up a few years ago for about $100.

These binoculars are used for wildlife watching and scoping out distant views.

I’ve been favorably impressed with comparable binoculars (price and specs) by Pentax and Nikon. Stepping up in both quality and price, I have been very impressed with compact and lightweight roof prism binocs made by Leupold, Leica and Swarovski in the 8X magnification range.

For some reason, my eyes could not get along with some expensive Zeiss binoculars of similar specs, so it pays to test before buying.

Two other points:

“Eye relief” – the distance you can hold your eye away from the eyepiece and still see the full coverage of the binoculars is something to consider. Eyeglass wearers need longer eye relief.

The terms, weatherproof, weather resistant and waterproof mean different things. This is a detail to check out, to determine which level of sealing against the elements best suits your purposes.

And as a further note, I also have older 10 X 50 binoculars by Pentax. They are great for wildlife viewing any time and especially in dusky conditions. They also have one other advantage over the compacts: being large (bulky) and relatively heavy, I find them easier to hand hold steadily than the little guys. I use the 10 X 50s mainly on road trips by car, and when traveling by boat where weight and bulk are less an issuethan while hiking.

G.

 

[DougPaul]

For hiking purposes, I carry a pair of light-weight (7oz) 7x20 (7 power, 20 mm objective lens) Nikon decent quality binoculars. Somewhere around $100 10 years ago. Maybe similar to http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...75&parent_category_rn=4500468&vcat=REI_SEARCH.
Larger formats (eg 7x35 or 7x50) are just too heavy--I wouldn't carry them on the trail.

General info:
1) Larger objectives lenses gather more light and are useful at low light levels, but do not help in brighter light because the iris in your eye will close down and block out the additional light gathered by the larger lens.
2) Rule of thumb: it is hard to hold anything above about 7 or 8 power steady, so if you are serious about higher powers, you should be thinking about using a tripod.
3) Higher power results in a dimmer viewing field.
4) Binoculars are a precision instrument--the two sides must be aligned accurately or you may get eye strain and headaches from them.

A little story: My brother is a professional ornithologist (bird watcher). We were standing on the shore of a pond looking at some loons--he with his $1000 Leica 7x35s(?) with brightfield optics and me with my little lightweights. (We could both see the loons perfectly well under the daylight conditions.) He was telling me about how much brighter his were than mine and my answer was that they were overkill and too heavy for a non-bird-watching hiker like me. Several years later, he commented to me that his were getting a bit heavy and he was thinking about some lighter weight binocs...

So, my suggestion is that you first ask what you want to do with them. If it is mostly hiking (ie carrying them long distances and only using them occasionally), then get a decent quality pair of lightweights. If it is mostly something like bird watching or marine navigation where you will be carrying them reasonably short distances and using them frequently, particularly in low light situations, get a pair of good quality larger format binoculars--eg 7x35 or 7x50s.

And if weight and size are particular concerns, get a monocular. (No url--REI used to carry a decent 8x21 3oz monocular for ~$30, now just some $140 units.)

When I hike, I usually carry at least my monocular (I consider it part of my navigation gear), but may substitute my light-weight binocs if I think they might be useful.

Doug

 

[bubba]

Agree to get outside and try them out. A large selection will help you decide. The other thing that you will notice is that as magnification goes up, the light darkens. For distances, 8 power is generally fine. Hunters in the NE are fine with these. Out west, 10 power because you are looking longer distances, have a rifle instead of a shotgun and need to count the rack.

Everyone has their preferences and by comparison you will find where you are comfortable with price/quality. WindRiver makes an excellent product in the middle price range, often nicer than Nikon. Ziess has a really nice 8X20 that I always thought was high quality, decent price and compact.

One of the first decisions that you want to make is waterproof or not. Then drill down from there. Your other option is to buy lower $$ for the first time purchase - see how you use them and save for a better pair in a year or two. There are plenty of "decent" lower prices brands that will fill this bill.

Although not all of us are hunters... a hunting store may be the best place to head for binoculars, good selection and possibly a knowledgeable person.

 

[sardog1]

The folks at Cornell Lab of Ornithology are among the birdiest on the planet. They spend an inordinate amount of time looking through binos. Here's their 2005 binocular review.

EDIT: Chuck Hawks has published Binocular Basics, which covers the main points in plain English. I'm including it here because he discusses effects on brightness from magnification, objective lens diameter, etc. that I carelessly omitted in my original rant above. So, any fans of 7 x, 35mm and 7 x, 50mm can chill now.

 

[Puck]

Alot of good advice for binocs. Not much more to add.

You should also consider straps. There are padded straps that go around the neck. They can still cause pressure on the neck and the binocs still flop around. This is ok for short term use. If you are hiking and want the binocs handy consider a harness that puts the weight on the shoulders. From behind they look a bit like suspenders. Most birders I know use this type of harness. Birders can be in the field for most of the day although they may only hike five miles. I converted to such a harness when my binocs almost hit a rock during a four point scramble to look at a raven's nest.

Many of the light weight binocs already mentioned come in a case that can attach to the belt or a strap on your pack.

 

[DougPaul]

Many of the light weight binocs already mentioned come in a case that can attach to the belt or a strap on your pack.

My lightweights fit in a shirt pocket--fine for short-term storage.

Unfortunately, my polyester moisture-wicking shirts don't have pockets. Wouldn't want the accident report to read--killed by a cotton shirt, but he had his light-weight binocs at the ready...

Doug

 

[Puck]

A little story: My brother is a professional ornithologist (bird watcher).

I don think you have to worry about wet cotton killing you if you are calling your brother a birdwatcher after going through all the schooling to call himself an ornithologist (assuming a Phd and Post doc)

Holidays at your house must be a hoot

 

[Vermonster]

Eagle Optics

Good advice above. Be certain to try them in person if you wear glasses. Some are much friendly than others for such use.

Don't overlook the Eagle Optics brand. The optics seem quite good and some models carry a lifetime warranty. As long as you don't lose them completely, EO will replace them for a small amount of $$ ($35 I think).

Errol

 

[Paradox]

I want to share my experience with trying before buying. While in St. Thomas U.S.V.I. in January '06, my wife and I found ourselves in one of the many shops in downtown Charlotte Amalie that cater to the cruise ships. There must be a couple hundred that sell perfume, watches, jewelry, cameras, knick-knacks, liquer, T-shirts, binoculars, and that's pretty much it. There were no cruise ships dumping people into town, and my wife was looking at jewelry, Accordingly, I had an hour to kill with an unfettered counter salesman and several pairs of binoculars to look at. I handed him my wallet and must have then taken two dozen pairs of $50 to $200 binoculars outside the door to look down the street and read the storefront signs. At one point I had four pairs of Nikon, Sportstar, 10x25 6.5 WF water resistant ($65.00 cruiseship special price) binoculars around my neck. There was a definate difference in image clarity between each of the pairs. I bought the one I liked the most, and gave the guy a $10 tip (he tried to give it back, but I left it on the counter). They are very light and I take them everywhere.

 

[BorealChickadee]

There's a ton of good technical advice given already so I'll just telll you what I've got. First of all, although I bird I can't afford top of the line binos or scopes. I don't even bother setting up my old scope if I'm out with the Cayuga Bird Club (out of Cornell) because the scopes set up are collectively worth more than my house. And everyone is so nice they're more than willing to share.

About five years ago I sprung for new Pentax binoculars 8 x 42 and thought the heavens had come to me (never looking back on twenty year old Bushnells) then....this past year someone was raving about the Nikon Monarchs for being lightweight, very fairly priced with very good optics. So I tried them and they were everything they were reported to be. So I got a pair of 10 bys. They're much lighter than my Pentax, have very nice optics and the greater magnification gives me another choice. I'm still not able to buy really great binoculars, the kind that knock your socks off.

Compact binoculars- I just don't know what to tell you without going out and dropping a cool grand. I've got a couple of pairs I've tried over the years. If you never look through better optics you won't know what you're missing. They're basically a disappointment. Someitmes I'll carry a pair in my pack but usually I'd rather just bring the Monarchs if I'm going to carry any extra weight.

 

[redcloud]

I just bought a pair of Nikon Eagleview's in silver and black from Amazon for $150. These are quite compact weighing about one pound. They have an adjustable zoom from 8-24. If you zoom all the way in, they do get shaky though. 8-12 is a nice range to work with. They are not waterproof, but that doesn't matter to me. They came with a nice belt pouch too. I am very happy with them.
Take care, Eric

 

[jjmcgo]

I always thought Zeiss was the clearest, brightest glass and always wished I could afford the top of the line.
You wouldn't think you would have to tell people this but once you buy them, keep this in mind, never stand binoculars on end, lay them down.
They can't "fall up," and knock the prisms out of alignment.
I've worked jobs with dozens of people who used binoculars and they almost univerally stand them on end. I look through them and see double images as a result of the banging around.
I'm sure that DougPaul will know the answer to this but it seems people with slightly out-of-whack binocs don't see the double image because their eyes do the adjusting. It often takes someone else to notice the flaw or damage.

 

[DougPaul]

it seems people with slightly out-of-whack binocs don't see the double image because their eyes do the adjusting. It often takes someone else to notice the flaw or damage.

Misalignment can result in double images, eyestrain, or a headache.

IIRC, there is a simple test involving holding them aimed at the sun and looking at the images on the ground, but I don't remember the details. (Info remembered from long, long ago--source might have been a Scientific American article.) (It might also not be a good idea to aim the binocs at the sun for too long--you might overheat some of the internal optics and damage the binocs.)

A quitck search on "binocular alignment" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=binocular+alignment&btnG=Google+Search brings up some info, and a search on "binocular collimation" http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=binocular+collimation&btnG=Search brings up even more, including some instructions:
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=416,
and
http://scientificsonline.com/article.asp_Q_ai_E_48#collimation
http://scientificsonline.com/article.asp?ai=49&bhcd2=1157751277

Looks complicated enough that some may prefer to have an alignment done professionally.

Search, any ye shall find.

Doug

 

[Kevin Rooney]

All good info. Did similar research about a year ago - loved a friend's set of Nikon Travelite V, so blew my REI dividend on a set. Great value for the price, but best of all they're light enough so you'll actually carry them in your pack.

You can probably shave $20-25+ with careful shopping. I got them at REI because I had the credit.