Bondcliff via. Hellgate Ravine

[dr_wu002]

I could be up for that Hellgate ravine trip but I am booked till mid September with some mountain bike races.

Don't worry... I'm booked even beyond that at this point. I've kept you in mind though sometime to do some cool trips!

Hikerbob: maybe we can climb the headwall together now - and not tell anyone - considering you seem to like turkey vultures so much!

-Dr. Wu

 

[Warren]

I've been looking at this route since my first visit to the Whites.

I was told by a fellow VFTT'er that it's doable and is something of a "standard" bushwack. Truthfully I was surprised to hear that. Anyways, I gather it may be possible to find a more class 3 to low 4 route up the sides of the cliff. From a distance the vegetation does not seem to be extreme or that dense.

sigh. Famous last words.

 

[dr_wu002]

I've been looking at this route since my first visit to the Whites.

I was told by a fellow VFTT'er that it's doable and is something of a "standard" bushwack. Truthfully I was surprised to hear that. Anyways, I gather it may be possible to find a more class 3 to low 4 route up the sides of the cliff. From a distance the vegetation does not seem to be extreme or that dense.

sigh. Famous last words.

Warren, The Hellgate Ravine Bushwhack is standard (Frodo rated it a 0.5 on a 0 to 1 scale, I believe) but it is not the hike/climb I'm asking about. The Hellgate Ravine BW traditionally drops you down the South or South West side of West Bond (I've never done it myself) and you hook up with the Franconia Falls Trail (I believe... never done it). The thing I was asking about was going into Hellgate Ravine and then just climbing the headwall to Bondcliff... much different. It looks more difficult but then again, maybe some people have done it and it's not so bad. I was just looking for some stories or something, and I wasn't necessarily announcing this in Trips & Events!

Raymond: I believe Dalraida (Tom W) had a brother-in-law that climbed these cliffs. Post in Q&A and maybe Tom will see it.

-Dr. Wu

 

[jjmcgo]

"I have specified in my will that I'm to be ground up and made into hotdogs and served to the attendees at my funeral."

Hmmmm, I might only be able to make the wake.

 

[dr_wu002]

"I have specified in my will that I'm to be ground up and made into hotdogs and served to the attendees at my funeral."

Hmmmm, I might only be able to make the wake.

That's too bad. Don't worry... they'll be serving Hors d'Oeuvres at the wake.

-Dr. Wu

 

[ADK4Life]

I doubt there would really be much to this climb. Make sure to post climb pics if you decide on it, always interested with climbs.

 

[HikerBob]

Going over the pics from our recent traverse of the Bonds it doesn't look like the final climb up would be too bad if done close to where the cliffs run out towards Bond. I would think most of the spots on the cliffs themselves would be pretty hairy if not full on technical.

From what I recall and can tell from the pics the BW along the brook itself would be the toughest part unless there are herdpaths in there. Topo! says it is about 2.5 miles from the Franconia Brook trail to the ridge.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems as more and more people complete the lists there is more interest in off trail travel. It's been mentioned before, but this raises all sorts of ethical questions as to the legitimacy of bushwhacking in certain areas.

Sure, the hiker is more likely the victim in dense spruce but many of the objectives will impact wetland or alpine zones that are very fragile. Increased interest means increased visitation and before long these places become common destinations.

Take Owl's head, subject of much recent debate, for instance. The summit trail is described as unmaintained yet I found it to be better defined and blazed than many official trails.

Are there regulations concerning off-trail travel in wilderness/forest protection/general zones?

Just a few thoughts.

Bob

 

[spongebob]

Since we are talking about bushwhacking and partially Vose Spur; I taught a Bushwhacking class on top of Vose Spur. I can hopefully ad some comic relief to this subject.

Click here to watch the movie......
http://www.streamload.com/Apayeur/vose_spur_bushwhacking_101.mpg

I don't think it is buffering, so you might have to replay it....
Oh and yes I am crazy.(differently minded.)

 

[HikerBob]

Given the difficulties presented by bushwhacking I doubt it will ever pose a huge threat to the environment. However you can't deny the power of increased attention, particularly if the media gets hold of it.

Witness the recent frenzy to do the Pemi Loop, probably fuelled by a Backpacker magazine article. I even recall a thread where someone said they'd run into a couple of woefully unprepared hikers who seemed to be attempting it.

All it will take is for someone to write a 'Ten Least Visited Places In the White Mountains' article and suddenly they won't be.

Bob

 

[dr_wu002]

Witness the recent frenzy to do the Pemi Loop, probably fuelled by a Backpacker magazine article. I even recall a thread where someone said they'd run into a couple of woefully unprepared hikers who seemed to be attempting it.

All it will take is for someone to write a 'Ten Least Visited Places In the White Mountains' article and suddenly they won't be.

Bob

Fair enough, HikerBob. We all know that the lists (which I don't do but I'm not against) have brought on a fury of activity to "traillless" peaks like Vose Spur and whatnot. We could have debate about this but Pete Hickey has initiated quite a bit by talking about the problems with Gray ("trailless" ADK 46'er that has alpine zone route). While I don't think backpacker would list something like "stupid bushwhack to Bondcliff" as a viable destination, you raise a good point regarding the Pemi Loop article. It's good to get information transfer here, and in general, I find the usual VFTT'er posters to be quite civic, environmentally and ethically minded people. However, a lot of people might read this site. So, what is the answer?

I wish this discussion wouldn't go further in this thread but somewhere else. All I wanted was some info about if anyone has ever done this 'whack and all I got is that Guy Waterman might have. However, I simply looked over the edge while on Bondcliff and wondered about it... anyone that ever hikes Bondcliff can look over the edge and wonder the same thing.

-Dr. Wu

Note: anyone confused by HikerBob's most recent response to apparently nothing... I deleted a post that I wrote which I deemed "too impassioned."

PS: HikerBob: Your post (1 above the last one) was #666 for you.

 

[el-bagr]

All it will take is for someone to write a 'Ten Least Visited Places In the White Mountains' article

10. Main Street, North Conway
9. The Strip, North Conway and Conway
8. Six-Gun City
7. Storyland
6. The Highland Center
5. Mount Washington Summit cafeteria
4. Flume Visitors' Center
3. Heritage New Hampshire
2. Pinkham Notch AMC Visitor's Center
1. Lincoln Woods parking lot

Shoot, now the cat's out of the bag.

I understand Bob's point. It's why many of my trips do not culminate in reports. It's also why I'm not much of a peakbagger.

 

[RoySwkr]

a little south of the bondcliff summit there are some topo lines that look a bit less severe than the ones directly below the cliffs. They stretch out towards an unnamed summit (3314').

A report of that route can be found at the end of
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3185&page=2

I have bushwhacked down from the Bond-Bondcliff col, there is steep talus but nothing worse. My take on the cliffs themselves is that they are like other cliffs, there are some routes that would be very tough and some that would be easier. I'm not sure Bondcliff was an official 4000-footer when Guy Waterman did the 4X but I'm sure he could have found a route up.

As to the cliffs on Garfield, last time I was there I had a look down and they didn't look that bad either. The summit steward told me the cliffs on the S side of Middle Sugarloaf were too steep to go down but they weren't.

 

[sierra]

I know a guy who has put up ice routes on the cliffs of Mt Garfield, he approached from above, as the walk to them from the Kanc would be an epic in the winter, the woods below them are thick.
As far as the cliffs on Bond, years ago I spent alot of time out there, the bushwack up Hellgate isnt that hard,imo and the cliffs are alpine in nature, meaning they might not be that technical but consist of large typically LOOSE blocks, that kind of climbing as a flavor of its own and warrants exteme "Risk Management"

 

[Brownie]

As far as the cliffs on Bond, years ago I spent alot of time out there, the bushwack up Hellgate isnt that hard,imo and the cliffs are alpine in nature, meaning they might not be that technical but consist of large typically LOOSE blocks, that kind of climbing as a flavor of its own and warrants exteme "Risk Management"

That's what I call typical Class 4 Mountaineering.
Get out your short rope and simple slings.
Maybe a quick short pitch route over the top blocks.
Easy-peasy.....

Too bad it's in a Wilderness Area, thats all.

 

[AMF]

Too bad it's in a Wilderness Area, thats all.

Wait a minute... since when can't you climb in a wilderness area??

 

[sapblatt]

Wait a minute... since when can't you climb in a wilderness area??

It is not that you cannot climb it, it is that you do not want to damage any alpine vegetation...at least I think that is what Brownie is referering to.

 

[Brownie]

Wait a minute... since when can't you climb in a wilderness area??

Pure ethics of climber's stewardship code. (responsible rock climbers)
Bushwhack if you must, but you probably should not plan a tech-pitched route on Wilderness Area Protected cliff.
Nesting birds, alpine zones, ect all are under Fed protection.
By doing so you would set a poor example for the rest of the climbing community.

USFS controls the use of Wilderness Protected Areas and among several regulations are the mountain bike rules.
Lets not get them worked up to mandate off-trail restrictions as well.
Recent removal of the Owls Head cairn markers and signs are an indication of control against the popular route.

There are many other locations for rock climbing outside the Wilderness boundaries which would be more acceptable for rock climbing activities.

Brownie

 

[dr_wu002]

Pure ethics of climber's stewardship code. (responsible rock climbers)
Bushwhack if you must, but you probably should not plan a tech-pitched route on Wilderness Area Protected cliff.
Nesting birds, alpine zones, ect all are under Fed protection.
By doing so you would set a poor example for the rest of the climbing community.

USFS controls the use of Wilderness Protected Areas and among several regulations are the mountain bike rules.
Lets not get them worked up to mandate off-trail restrictions as well.
Recent removal of the Owls Head cairn markers and signs are an indication of control against the popular route.

There are many other locations for rock climbing outside the Wilderness boundaries which would be more acceptable for rock climbing activities.

Brownie

Agreed & good post.

Remember though... I originally started the thread to ask if people have ever done it & I'm not really planning on doing it myself. Some things are just fun speculation & not everything to be taken serious.


-Dr. Wu