Breaking the GoreTex Marketing Machine

[Remix]

The Army has just completed a study and has found eVent fabric to be superior for breathability.

The study is at http://www.shelby.fi/tips/breathability.pdf The study also contains measured data about other well-known fabrics.

 

[Oldsmores]

What I'd really like to see is the breathability correlated with the "waterproofness". I suspect that the more breathable a fabric is, the less waterproof it is. I want both - a really breathable fabric that really keeps me dry.

 

[BlackBuffalo]

I was just flipping through my new LL Bean xmas catalog. Does anyone have any experience with their TechII waterproof system?

 

[Tom Rankin]

I would love to be proven wrong, but if I am hiking up hill in the rain, (and therefore the humidity is high), I will be sweating, in all but the coldest of conditions. Therefore, there is lots of moisture outside and lots of moisture inside. I just don't see where the moisture can go on a humid or rainy day.

 

[Peakbagr]

Tom raises the time-tested problem. Water, water everywhere...
Unless I'm mistaken, the weak spot of all breathable raingear is when its wet and humid.
A system I'd be interested in one be one thats pretty water resistent but very breathable in warm conditions, but VERY breathable in winter.
The idea being that snow and sleet will run off the garment and largely not penetrate in winter and let out the sweat.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I would love to be proven wrong

Me too. If my heart rate is much above resting, I will get sweaty. Period. De-layering or reducing the temperature mitigates the rate of sweat to a degree. I just bring a few changes of shirts, gloves and bandannas. XC skiing when it's low teens or single digits is particularly difficult because you alternate between uphill efforts and downhill rests with increased wind chill. Best I can do is a full-length zippered jersey which gets unzipped on the ups and zipped on the downs.

Tim

 

[kevinmac]

FYI-The Army did that study in 2000

Here is an article that talks about that study
http://www.insideoutdoor.com/documents/W-BJune04feature.pdf

 

[bignslow]

Tom raises the time-tested problem. Water, water everywhere...
Unless I'm mistaken, the weak spot of all breathable raingear is when its wet and humid.
A system I'd be interested in one be one thats pretty water resistent but very breathable in warm conditions, but VERY breathable in winter.
The idea being that snow and sleet will run off the garment and largely not penetrate in winter and let out the sweat.

My soft shell is exactly what you're looking for in winter:
http://www.schoeller-textiles.com
Personally I think schoeller is the only true soft shell fabric out there right now, the rest are just fleece with a nylon exterior. The fabric isn't waterproof, but on a winter hike of phelps/tabletop I was wearing this while my friends were wearing their "hard" shells (one gore-tex, the other no-name WPB). Both of their shells "wetted out" from snow falling from trees while the soft shell stayed pretty much dry (I hike hot, so I have a feeling my heat, combined with the fabric burned off most of the snow before it could soak in).

A few years ago I thought the soft shell revolution was a bunch of bunk but i'm definitely a believer in my jacket. On the other hand, I would NEVER expect my soft shell to work in the rain.

 

[cbcbd]

If you haven't yet, pay Wild Things in N Conway a visit and check out their little eVent vs Gore-tex display.

 

[DrewKnight]

A few years ago I thought the soft shell revolution was a bunch of bunk but i'm definitely a believer in my jacket. On the other hand, I would NEVER expect my soft shell to work in the rain.

I'd like to try a few other softshell materials before I finally decide... I have, and am fairly happy with, a Helly-Hansen softshell from a few years back. It works pretty well in most conditions -- it's actually remarkably waterproof (for what it is -- no hood is a limitation), but it also doesn't breath very well, so for high-exertion activities (skiing, mountain biking), it gets too swampy inside too quickly, even if I layer down under it. I end up doing what Tim does: zip up on the chair or downhill riding, zip down when skiing or climbing. Oh, pit zips would be a big bonus -- my Helly lacks them.

I have heard really good things about Schoeller. The only "problem" with my Helly softshell (or my wife's REI store brand, for that matter) is that it wears like absolute iron, so it'll be a long time before I have to think about replacing it.

 

[Craig]

Tom raises the time-tested problem. Water, water everywhere...
Unless I'm mistaken, the weak spot of all breathable raingear is when its wet and humid.
A system I'd be interested in one be one thats pretty water resistent but very breathable in warm conditions, but VERY breathable in winter.
The idea being that snow and sleet will run off the garment and largely not penetrate in winter and let out the sweat.

This is what you’re looking for.

I have wind shirts and pants made from this material that I wear in winter. When I’m mushing hard you can see the steam coming through the fabric.

Plus the material is bomber. Great for glissading. I highly recommend it.

eVent is still way too expensive, IMO.