Caching, vaulting, bagging, retrieving - and how to be smarter than the average bear

[Tramper Al]

So,

An ethical question with practical implications.

Once a couple of summers ago, my backpacking friends (doing dropped pack pick-up duties) left behind my Ursack in Maine - loaded with food. We were nearly home before I realized it was missing, and it was 2 months before I could retrieve it - intact. I do not plan to do that again.

However, from time to time I think about caching a little food there and here, in hopes of resupplying myself, say in the middle of a 100 mile walk. Now, a cache like this would be very vulnerable in or near a campsite, obviously. At a road crossing, where bears would tend not to be accustomed to finding picnics or packs, less so I think.

Now, even the Ursack is sometimes not enough to thwart a clever bear. There have been some Ursack failures in the ADKs (you guys have smarter bears), and of course they do not meet the standards for bear container country out West. So I am considering a hard proper bear container for a food cache in the middle of the 'wilderness' of Maine. This will require a return trip to pick up the container. A second Ursack (I hike with my one) is not an option, as they are not currently available.

For your opinions, is this:
1) Littering.
2) Feeding the bears.
3) Overkill - you would use a double ziplock and bury it.
4) Lazy, lazy - carry 8-10 days of food 100 miles already.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Waumbek]

I'll have to think about all the response options you offer, but my first question is: what is plan b if you get there and the food is gone? Even when I hang a bag of food well and plan to return to the same campsite at night, I take enough food with me to get out to civilization if worse comes to worse.
I suspect your option #2 is most likely.

 

[onestep]

Last year I placed a food cache where the AT crosses the South Arm road in Maine. I used a 3 gallon plastic pail with a snap-on lid. I placed the cache a 100 yards from the AT crossing behind a rock 15' in from the road. I marked the spot with a wrap of grey duct tape around a tree. On the outside of the pail I wrote, "Hiker Food.... Bears Keep OUT!" This worked well for me.
A member on AT-L gave me the idea of using pails. He cached all his food when he and his grandson took a month to section hiked the AT thru Maine. If I where to hike the 100-mile again, I'd set out 2 food caches. Just remember to go back and retrieve your empty container(s).

 

[sli74]

A couple of friends who joined me on the LT this summer set up a drop just off the road along the road walk in Johnson. They placed ALL their food into 2 tool boxes, the hardy metal kind. PLaced a metal chain around it and secured it. Covered it with a big garbage bag and it was there in one piece waiting for them when we walked by. The only issue was that we were practically eaten alive by bugs in the time it took to get the food out anf replace the toolboxes, with our trash back in its spot. We went back and got the tool boxes on our way back from the Canadian border.

It can be done successfully with some planning.

sli74

 

[Tramper Al]

Hey, thanks for the thoughts.

Waumbek, you really think the most likely outcome is that a Maine bear would stumble upon a bear-resistant canister there less than a week, and crack it open? I'm not putting it in your back yard, remember. And yes, plan A is don't eat all your food before you reach the cache, and if it is gone, plan B is you have to bail.

onetep, the only time I have left a cache like this, we used a 2.5 gallon pail with snap on lid, Home Depot type. It was very good for rain and small creatures, but I doubt it would have held up to a bear. And yes, any hard container that you don't want to pick up and hike with needs to be retrieved.

Sli, your tool boxes sound fairly bear resistant, actually. But I think they do pretty well with anything that has an edge they can grab onto. Some might say that if it wasn't opened, then a bear did not find it.

I have little doubt, particularly after my accidental 2 month experiment on CVR, that most of the time food left in the woods (not a shelter mind you) would not be found by a bear in just a few days regardless. I'm just trying to do this right, because everything gets found eventually.

 

[peakbagger]

I personally like Ammo boxes for caching, most of them have a way of locking with a padlock, they have good gaskets, take a lot of abuse and are a lot easier to open up. They are also easier to hide as the rectangular shape is easier to pile things up on.

 

[DougPaul]

Waumbek, you really think the most likely outcome is that a Maine bear would stumble upon a bear-resistant canister there less than a week, and crack it open? I'm not putting it in your back yard, remember.

Stumble? Bears have _very_ good noses.

They have been known to find food hidden underwater in sealed containers...

Doug

 

[John S]

Tramper, I’m certain no bear (or other critter for that matter) ever took interest in the toolboxes Sli mentioned but I like to think they would have held up anyway. They were about 7x7x20 steel boxes, duct-taped together (for my convenience, not a bear’s inconvenience ), then chain-bound with the chain ends secured with some screw-type biner things. The whole package was then tightly chained to a tree and secured with a padlock. I also made some 3/4 plywood dividers and placed them inside the boxes to make them more crush-resistant. I doubt if I could have busted into the thing with a baseball bat. Still, I’m working on a better design for next time. One of those knee-high, galvanized trash cans and lids, a good drill bit, some threaded rod, a few large washers and nuts……

As to your first two questions, it’s not littering if you pick up the container after the hike, and you’re not feeding the bears if the bears can’t get to the food. If you have a secure place and container, why not? If you can stash a bicycle, why not food?

 

[John Graham]

I have been caching food at road crossings for 15 years and have never lost any food to bears or anything else. I would never cache food near a campground, because bears frequent such areas, but they do not typically frequent roadside trailheads. I have usually used old paint cans, taking care not to put anything with an attractive odor in them, sticking to prepackaged food. I will also leave extra white gas in a soda bottle. I don't bury them, I just walk in to the first trail sign and put them behind a rock, covered with leaves. Plan B , if they are found, is to simply hitch into town and buy food like the other thru hikers. I have done this about fifty times with no problems. In situations where it is not practical to return and pick up the container, I have hung food from between two trees in a garbage bag, but this is obviously more risky. When I have done this is on the Highline trail in the Wind River range and on the Continental Divide trail, where I had to dayhike in to reach the trail. In this case, I would not risk a roadside trailhead, but would choose deep woods, not much frequented by man or beast, and I would leave a note explaining that it was left for a thru-hiker, when it was dropped and when it would be picked up. These caches have survived up to two or three weeks.

 

[Tramper Al]

Stumble? Bears have _very_ good noses.

I agree, obviously. The point is that since many many caches (including my CVR experiment including smoked salmon and chocolate) have done undisturbed for days or weeks, there is a good deal of luck (or chance if you prefer) involved.

And yes, I frequently stash my bicycle at road/trail crossings for hours or days, without concern that the bears will become habituated to mountain biking.

Thanks, all. I just wanted to be sure I was on the right page.

 

[Nessmuk]

And yes, I frequently stash my bicycle at road/trail crossings for hours or days, without concern that the bears will become habituated to mountain biking.

One time a few years ago I stashed my bike many miles back in on an old logging road for a couple of days. I covered it with leaves and such. Upon my return I found my seat half eaten by some kind of chewing critter. Had it been much worse I would have had a very uncomfortable ride on the way out. I hesitate to think if it had continued on to my tires, though I'm sure tires don't smell quite the same as my sweaty bike seat.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

Stumble? Bears have _very_ good noses.

"A leaf fell in the forest, the deer heard it, the eagle saw it, the bear smelled it."
Old Indian saying

 

[DougPaul]

Upon my return I found my seat half eaten by some kind of chewing critter.

Salt?

Porcupines are known to chew on salty stuff (shoes, pack straps, etc).

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

And yes, I frequently stash my bicycle at road/trail crossings for hours or days, without concern that the bears will become habituated to mountain biking.

Somehow, I suspect the smell and taste of the bike are more important to a bear than riding it.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I have usually used old paint cans, taking care not to put anything with an attractive odor in them, sticking to prepackaged food.

Metal paint cans will certainly stop rodents and reduce the odor, but will not stop a determined bear. A simple stomp will open one. It is quite possible that the NE bears are not sophisticated enough to open a paint can. (I wouldn't try it in Yosemite...)

Anyhoo, glad it has worked so far.

BTW, (from what I have read) bears are attracted to novel odors, food or not. (I guess they have to check out to see if it might be food...)

Doug

 

[tonycc]

Blue barrels are frequently used by canoers up north to thwart bears. They even make harnesses for the 60liter sizes, not that I would want to lug one of the things on more than a short portage.

Tony

 

[imarchant]

Bears have the best sense of smell of any animal. A bear can most likely smell food in whatever container it is placed in. For all animals, eating is about "opportunity-cost". They will eat the most calories available while spending the least energy.

A bear that has not ever had human food can definitely smell the food, but may not know it as food. They can smell the food but do know for certain that it is food. If there is enough food in the wild a bear has no need to spend the energy exploring for new sources. But, when food is scarce they will spend energy trying to find new sources. Once they discover that human food is an easy source of energy they will take advantage of any opportunity they can. They probably start by eating scraps left on the ground by campers. They can then associate the smell of human food. So it is easy for them to figure out the hanging bags have food. Once they know this they will spend the energy to get at the food.

That is why bear canisters are a good idea. The bears will be able to smell the food, but they do not know how to get at it. If canisters become a requirement in the high peaks area it will be interesting to see what happens. Will they become more aggressive and explore the backpacks and lean-tos? Or will they go back to the natural food sources? I'm sure studies have been done.