Camping in frigid weather?

[coldfeet]

Not an expert here but I car camped out with Indian Chris that weekend with the freezing weather in the Catskills.....long story short we both thought the other had the tent

We laid down a space blanket and parked the car on an angle to block the wind..the temps at this time was -9F according to my car thermometer...

I used a -40 down bag and Chris used a 0 bag and I gave him another 0 NF bag to double up.....it was app 1:30 am....

As I tried to sleep my face was getting cold, I did have a balaclava on but not covering the mouth area, I wanted to tuck my head into the bag but I remembered it as a "no no"....well I tried it anyway....

I'm pretty sure I went to sleep and then I suddenly woke up as I recall gasping for air I wondered if I sucked up all the oxygen in my bag...

Well for the rest of the night I kept my face tilted to the side with the a small opening...

when we got back in the car at 8am to drive to the trailhead a few min away the temps read -19F....as of now it was the coldest day in my life....between us I'd do it again

 

[Chip]

I'm pretty sure I went to sleep and then I suddenly woke up as I recall gasping for air I wondered if I sucked up all the oxygen in my bag...

You woke yourself up because subconsciously you "knew" you weren't supposed to be "buried" in the bag. No way you would have "used all the oxygen" unless you were in a giant zip lock -40 degree bag .

-19 is cold regardless. Congrats on that. Hopefully your Feet were not Cold.

 

[DougPaul]

You woke yourself up because subconsciously you "knew" you weren't supposed to be "buried" in the bag. No way you would have "used all the oxygen" unless you were in a giant zip lock -40 degree bag .

Actually, your body doesn't detect the lack of oxygen, it detects the build-up of CO2. Normally this works well enough, but in unusual situations, bad things can happen. For instance, free divers can lose consciousness (and drown) without ever feeling the urge to breathe.

Coldfeet's experience is yet another reason to breathe directly to free air rather than inside one's sleeping bag.

Doug

 

[Aviarome]

The body actually has two mechanisms for respiratory drive, both lack of oxygen, hypoxia, and too much carbon dioxide, hypercapnia. Interestingly, people with COPD depend on the hypoxic drive. At baseline, they have hypercapnia, and so do not respond to high carbon dioxide as a respiratory drive. When COPD patients have respiratory difficulties, they often do not respond well to high flow oxygen, because the oxygen decreases their hypoxic drive.

Aviarome

 

[pks4000]

Not freezing in an Igloo

This forum is truly informational and inspirational.
A great resource from personnal experiences.

Companies pay big bucks for this kind of real life first hand on the "semi danger edge" reports.

Aviarome, your post was very interesting on physiological level.
Still, to avoid all the cold and trying to sleep scenarios we build igloos and sit in microfleece/sleep in a 20 dgree bag
and live without hat/gloves or balaclava in a toasty 34-44 degrees.

 

[BorealChickadee]

I second the use of a fleece earband over the nose. Mine covers my eyes and comes down to the tip of my nose. Stays in place all night and I wear it over a wool balaclava.

It's worked for me down to -10 in a summer tent and lean-to. Nice warm nose.

In an igloo in -20 I was too warm and had to do some unzipping during the night.

I seriously doubt that igloo walls and a tarp roof will retain anywhere near the amount of heat a full igloo will. But it's better than nothing . An igloo is a lot of work but at least not as get yourself wet as a quinzee.

Saw someone build an igloo using a 5 gallon pail and it worked! They used a second pail to pack the snow down inside the first. We called it the sarcophagus. They were very cozy.

I've also seen a quinzee build over pulks piled in the middle so all they had to do was dig in to the pulks and packs, pull the gear out and they had a hollow.

 

[coldfeet]

I also thought that my buddy might have chocked me while i was sleeping for forgetting the tent but he was sleeping when I jumped up, at least i think he was sleeping....hmmmmmm

 

[hikingfish]

I seriously doubt that igloo walls and a tarp roof will retain anywhere near the amount of heat a full igloo will. But it's better than nothing . An igloo is a lot of work but at least not as get yourself wet as a quinzee.

Funny you should talk about this...I tried building an igloo last weekend (using blocks) and failed miserably (although it was a VERY good learning experience: I'll start another thread on that in a sec...). Anyways, I put a tarp over it. It was 3 blocks high and I dug the height of a block, so I still had plenty of room, but it didn't insulate that much. I was expecting high temps...but then again, a tarp isn't anywhere near snow as far as insulation goes. It was -22C outside and -12C inside. Although that figure is sketchy...I was using my suunto watch's thermometer, which isn't very precise.

Fish

 

[wardsgirl]

In winter, we usually burn a candle lantern all night in the tent. It definitely raises the temperature nicely. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it also cuts down on condensation in the tent.

Perhaps a candle lantern would work well in an igloo too? I've never built an igloo, but I have built a quinzhee.

 

[adktyler]

Perhaps a candle lantern would work well in an igloo too? I've never built an igloo, but I have built a quinzhee.

Candle lanterns are very nice in quinzhees, and I imagine they'd be nice in an igloo. They not only provide warmth and light, but are a safety check for carbon monoxide levels.

 

[DougPaul]

In winter, we usually burn a candle lantern all night in the tent.

I wouldn't run a flame of any form in a tent or snow shelter while sleeping. Down etc burns very quickly (virtually explodes), tents burn, and if the ventilation is compromised, there is a carbon monoxide hazard.

Nylon also melts.

Doug

 

[Maddy]

A nice big dog (or two) always raises the temperature with no fire hazard.

 

[hikingfish]

A nice big dog (or two) always raises the temperature with no fire hazard.

They would do nicely indeed! I don't think malamutes were usually allowed in the igloos though. I read on the american kennel (sp?) site for the malamutes that those types of dogs only started to shiver at -70C. Talk about built tough.

I spotted a video on youtube that shows a blubber lamp...however they usually skip over the part that I'm interested in: How the hell did they start a fire to light up the lamp in the first place?! I mean, wood is extremely rare in the great north...and it's not like they carried butane lighters either.

Fish

 

[Little Rickie]

In winter, we usually burn a candle lantern all night in the tent. It definitely raises the temperature nicely. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it also cuts down on condensation in the tent.

Perhaps a candle lantern would work well in an igloo too? I've never built an igloo, but I have built a quinzhee.

I don't think you really need a candle in an igloo or quinzhee. I carry a candle lantern in case it gets too cold and would use it in a ventilated tent, especially if it was an emergency. I don't think an enclosed candle lantern is a big fire hazzard.

 

[Hikes4fun]

I like to hang a candle lantern in a Leanto--Lets you see the Pine Martens as they are stalking you

 

[pks4000]

No more cold noses! The Eskimo knows noses!

We use the Ice Box from Grand Shelters. A perfect Igloo in 3 hours or less ......with our shortcut.
Burning a candle inside raises the temp a few degrees.
Cooking inside raises the temp significantly.

If you question the insulative properties of 6 inches of snow just yell something to your mate outside the igloo.
The aswer will be "Huh?"

We build perfect blocks with the form and "radius pole" for 5 or 6 courses then peg our tarp where the last 1 or 2 courses would be really leaning in and good gravity defying blocks are tougher to build . (saves 45 mins to an hour and much cursing in dry snow.)

We throw snow on the tarp and pack it with hands or shovel from its edges on up to the top so it bonds. Thus we have insulation on the tarp too and voilla a complete igloo.

The tarp has a 2 inch hole in it for vent and after we pack the snow we stick a pole up thru it to open it up.

The tarp is circular,has 6 grommets and is attached by 6 wands (lightweight 30 inch fiberglass Tomato stakes stuck thru the grommets and into the igloo similar to alpine route wands )

The stakes sticking thru inside the igloo are hangers, 1 for the candle of course.
and others for our gloves/socks and fleece which drys inside when its zero outside.


In the morning you will have slept well in your 20 degree bag, dont have a moisture laden tent to shake out and have gotten an extra hour sleep while your tenting buddies break camp and dig up the cemented snow anchors.

 

[hikingfish]

(saves 45 mins to an hour and much cursing in dry snow.)

This is exactly when we started swearing when we built our igloo...To make sure the blocks leaning inwards wouldn't break, we waited between 5-10 minutes per block!.

Do you have any pictures of your setup? I'm very visual. Your solution sounds really neat. Can't wait to get a glimpse at it...

Cheers,

Fish

 

[WildPeaks]

Wardsgirl hit the nail on the head with the candle lantern.
I did a bit of winter overnights in the Whites. Usually they were 3 days & 2 nights.
I used a -40 down bag because I could never pull that zip up all the way, so my whole head was usually completely out of the bag. I always had a hat & balaclava close by for the wee hours when I would start to get cold. Oh & don't tell anyone, I would pull the bag over my head loosely for a few minutes every now & then, but would always remember to aim your exhales out. Never had any problems with a moist bag near the head. It was always the bottom where the bag hit the tent wall.
After the first virtual snow storm in the tent that came upon movement in the morning I read about the candle lantern trick. Bingo, it works like a charm.
Yes yes & yes, you have to be real careful with it. I would wait til the other guy was settled down & then hang it about 14" ?? from the center. Concerned with air, I left the rear window down about 2". Besides they are breathable tents anyway.
Boy did that help with the "snowstorms" in the tent. It really got rid of most of the condensation. and to help with the foot part of the bag, wrapped a tent floor liner of poly up & over the lower part of the bag. Not perfect, but helped a lot. And the lantern did add a small amount of heat.

 

[Little Rickie]

We build perfect blocks with the form and "radius pole" for 5 or 6 courses then peg our tarp where the last 1 or 2 courses would be really leaning in and good gravity defying blocks are tougher to build . (saves 45 mins to an hour and much cursing in dry snow.)

We throw snow on the tarp and pack it with hands or shovel from its edges on up to the top so it bonds. Thus we have insulation on the tarp too and voilla a complete igloo. QUOTE]

Brilliant! Thanks.

 

[pks4000]

Images of our ICE Box Igloo from Grand Shelters

Here are a few images of our shortcut (tarp packed with insulating snow for a partial roof) igloo building.

Weather: 5 above wind 15-20 mph

Inside 34-39 degrees

Note the small vent hole in the roof and tarp

One candle lights the whole white reflective inside