Cannon Mountain - Environmental Damage, Hiking Prohibition, and SB217

[RoySwkr]

So tell, me oh, taxpayers of New Hampshire, how you feel about your money being spent to create a redundant, unnecessary hiking trail just to achieve someone's personal agenda?

PS - Taft Slalom is NOT a safe trail to be mixing skiers and pedestrians.

I am a NH taxpayer and I would hope the money comes from skiers which I am not - does that thought make me a true NH taxpayer Oops, you're a skier

I would like to see the two trails designated for _summer_ hiking for reasons previously expressed, hopefully there will be few skiers then. Winter hiking is a different issue.

It's also typical dirty politics to throw the renaming to "Veterans" in there so that anyone who objects looks like they're objecting to honoring veterans.

That was apparently part of the original designation which people are rapidly forgetting, just like Sunapee was created to preserve old-growth forest and part of the old growth was leased for ski trails.

..really a quiet gorgeous spot..was totally churned up and trashed by 4 wheelers, it will never recover.

Let's not be extreme, it will recover if allowed to and long before geologic time. The park manager a few managers ago showed some slides of Monadnock in the 50s and it's amazing how much has grown back even there.

I think some of the photos show damage which needs to be repaired under environmental law even if not required by the contract. It would be nice to see the junk removed but that is less important to me. And I'd like to see hiker summer access to Mittersill but only after the necessary trail hardening.

 

[TrailwrightBratt]

FYI:
I read in this morning's Manchester Union Leader that there is to be a meeting of the State Park System Advisory Committee at the Franconia Notch State Park HQ at the Flume at 1 PM on Monday February 6. The meeting is open to the public and it seems to be the custom to ask attendees who they are and what group if any they represent, especially if the public is invited to ask questions and you want to do so, they like to know who they are dealing with. Bear in mind this is NOT a public hearing, and the Chair does not automatically have to invite remarks from the public.
Tomorrow the articles from today's paper can be read at unionleader.com, they are replaced by new ones in one week. You can also probably find minutes of earlier meetings of the SPSAC and the agenda for this one at the state park website, which I believe is www.nhstateparks.org

Craig I just checked the Parks site for the meeting and there is no mention of a meeting at all. Only the April meeting of last spring. I also checked the site for Press releases and nothing there either. Not sure i want to drive up on monday for nothing. Have you heard or seen anything more recent ?.

 

[Silverfox]

All that you said is fine, but this is state land. The citizens of NH are the landowners and therefore have a right to inquire, complain, and protest the way their land is being managed.

agreed..and that is the crux of the issue ..well worded in 36 words or less.

As I see it..as a Live Free or Die 35 year resident of New Hampshire there is little to convince me that I cannot complain about improper State sponsored encroachment on the environment in a very sensitive ecological area

and..that I can..and will continue to.. hike on state owned land where I damn well please..not damaging any ecology..in fact holding it all in awe....not causing a hazard to any other..but rather respecting the rights of others to similarly enjoy the terrain whether it be on boards or via foot propulsion.

I am a fairly conservative person..but this issue bothers me and deserves attention by any taxpayer or person who values personal freedom and the right to use and enjoy public land

perhaps it is time to


Occupy Cannon

 

[walker]

Please, oh please, read this book

Personally I dont see the issues here that should be of that big a concern to the hiking community. It a ski resort, its thier mountain to trash. As far as banning hikers, its thier right to do so. I wont lose any sleep being banned from those slopes.

Sierra, please take the time to read Laura and Guy Waterman's book "Wilderness Ethics: Preserving the Spirit of Wildness.

www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Ethics-Preserving-Wildness-Appreciation

This will explain why you should be concerned, and why you should be losing some sleep over someone (either a person or a corporation) trashing the wilderness.

The hiking community is the first line of defense in protecting the mountains, valleys, cols, river, streams, brooks, glades, balds, meadows, and every little place that as a whole make up the Wilderness.

We're the ones who see the problems first. We're the ones who sound the alarms when something seems to be out of place. We're the ones who (as a communal group) put pressure on the governing bodies to keep things that need to be kept, and change things that need changing. It was the outdoor enthusiast who put enough pressure on congress that The National Forest System was created in response to the trashing of most of the wilderness in and around the Whites.

I can't see why everyone isn't concerned about whats happening. No one but us will put pressure on the offending parties to clean up the mess and change the S.O.P. so it doesn't happen again.


See You On the Trail...Walker

 

[una_dogger]

Thank you, Walker - for expressing so concisely what I've been thinking about all afternoon but at a loss for suitable words to convey.

Thank you, Rocket, for being young and idealistic enough to feel so passionately about a cause.

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

NH SPSAC mtg 1 PM 2/6 Franconia

I just checked at www.nhstateparks.org/Get Involved/Statewide Park System Advisory Council. The meeting is at 1 PM Mon Feb 6 at Franconia Notch as published. They even have their agenda posted there.

 

[blacknblue]

This will explain why you should be concerned, and why you should be losing some sleep over someone (either a person or a corporation) trashing the wilderness...

It was the outdoor enthusiast who put enough pressure on congress that The National Forest System was created in response to the trashing of most of the wilderness in and around the Whites.

"trashing the wilderness"? Really? And you're going to compare some erosion on a ski trail to the clear-cutting of 100,000s of acres of forest and the subsequent wildfires? I wouldn't put the passage of the Weeks Act in the same category as cleaning up Mittersill. Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy. And do we really have to turn everything into a conspiracy theory by making it a "corporation" against the average-joe "taxpayer"?

The hiking community is the first line of defense in protecting the mountains, valleys, cols, river, streams, brooks, glades, balds, meadows, and every little place that as a whole make up the Wilderness.

We're the ones who see the problems first. We're the ones who sound the alarms when something seems to be out of place. We're the ones who (as a communal group) put pressure on the governing bodies to keep things that need to be kept, and change things that need changing.

Oh geez... Methinks you have been listening to too many political speeches.

While we're all on our high horse here, let's also remember that we're also the first line of offense in destroying the mountains, etc... Let's all keep that in mind when watching cars drive through Franconia Notch to go hiking during mud season.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is this sort of sanctimonious attitude that is pervasive in the hiking community that rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Frankly, there are a lot more important things to worry about than the Mittersill erosion and how it affects our leisure-time recreation. I greatly enjoy hiking, skiing, and many other outdoor recreational activities, but boy can we work ourselves into a tizzy about stuff that only affects about .1% of the population.

 

[JacobH]

The funny part is, you talk about soil erosion, but if you read the thread, the vast majority of the posters are volunteer adopters of trails. Most people that are showing concern here spend the mud season maintaining the trails you're referring to.

I mean, why bother with things like the Balsams, it's just a few acres. Who cares if it goes to the Northern Pass project, right? Or Monadnock, why bother preserving it? It's just a big round rock. Why bother regrowing the vegetation on Dickey? It's not even a 4k. Or Baxter State Park. Surely less than .1% of the population will ever see that. Why preserve beaches, only a small percentage of the population uses those too.

All of your recreational areas were brought to you, fought for, and preserved, by people who cared enough about the things that only affected .1% of the population to stand up for these places.

 

[blacknblue]

Again, JacobH, you are making a terrible analogy. Preserving beaches and Baxter and Monadnock and fighting against Northern Pass does not equate with some erosion on Mittersill in scope or quality. The argument from greater to lesser just doesn't work. The amount of attention and vitriol being poured out against the perpetrators isn't commensurate with the so-called crime being committed.

I'm all for keeping them accountable, restoring the damaged areas, and even allowing hiking there. But I'm not for turning things into a conspiracy by the big bad corporations from which we valiant hikers must save the world.

As for the majority of poster being trail adopters, I really doubt that, but maybe you know more than me.

 

[natron]

so true blacknblue..

While we're all on our high horse here, let's also remember that we're also the first line of offense in destroying the mountains, etc... Let's all keep that in mind when watching cars drive through Franconia Notch to go hiking during mud season.

my thoughts exactly..

 

[Andrew]

Looks to me this supposed taxpayers group and timing to post a frenzy of concern is personal. Strike the hammer while the iron is hot. Because a lot of people have a lot to gain by taking Cannon out of public hands, and the more support they get while this legislation is in play, all the better. Also looks like some are just upset that they can't hike where they want when they want.

There is no outcry from this community over the NH timber harvest community resistance to accept basic guidelines for stream crossing and wetland damage controls with high elevation cuts over large expanses and multiple roads. Most members are exemplary stewards but a few have held out. Probably because most takes place in the far north and can't be seen from popular trails. I see one road and a few gullies, unfortunate but not the high drama of a conspiracy to destroy the environment.

.....Realize some of my statement is unfair as many in this community are not aware of land use regulations and conflicts in NH. For example, if you want to put in a new XC ski trail you need to go through layers of permits and notifications if there is even a hint of wetlands. Much of that goes out the window if you have a permit to cut.

The recent wind farm in this area made a brand new road on a ridge top with miles and miles of beautiful moss and high elevation vegetation furrowed off. This project did an incredible job with protecting wetlands from what I have observed, but again very few people voiced outrage prior as opposed to Reddington a few years back. Even though this area is often characterized as "Industrial Forest", I don't know any of the numerous threatened or endangered species that inhabit that have the ability to determine this human derived assumption. Now that that project is in place, I think it's neat, even though some aspects are still unfortunate.

It's easy to beat up on the state, but they work very hard to provide a diverse set of recreational experiences that should cost the taxpayer something. NH has managed to keep the bulk of the cost to provide and manage recreation, as opposed to other states and agencies, out of the public pocket.

The privitization of Cannon is one of the slimiest moves attempting to happen in this state.

 

[MichaelJ]

and..that I can..and will continue to.. hike on state owned land where I damn well please..

Ah, but if Cannon's ski operations were already leased, as is one aspect of the bill, then they would have every right to kick you out. That said, I can't imagine many potential lessees being interested in running Cannon encumbered by micromanaging laws about who they allow where on the ski slopes.

 

[bandana4me]

I am not condoning what is taking place on Mittersill but lets look at the whole picture.

Yes there has been damage done but.... is not the Alpine Zone in the Whites also being trampled on???? I could take pictures of "hikers" (not all mind you) walking on the fragile tundra that is so rare in these parts. Would that put hikers in a bad light????

I can also show pictures of trails where switchbacks are the required travel but there are those who take shortcuts and cause EROSION to the already maintained trails.

Has anyone ever seen a tent in an area that is restricted from camping????? Why was Franconia Brook shelter removed???? Have you ever seen the woods in close proximity to a shelter or tent platform??? How is that impacting the forest??

Instead of placing blame and pointing fingers at others who are causing environmental misuse, it is time to look in the mirror! There is a much LARGER need in the trails and forest to keep everyone busy for a long, long time....

 

[sierra]

All that you said is fine, but this is state land. The citizens of NH are the landowners and therefore have a right to inquire, complain, and protest the way their land is being managed.

I will be honest I did not realize this was state land, that being said, I see your point in regards to public input.

 

[Trail Bandit]

This may not be exactly what is being debated here but I would like to report what has happened in another State Park with a ski area here in NH.
Years ago, Mt. Sunapee ski area was part of Mt. Sunapee State Park and was operated by the State of NH. I used to enjoy hiking up the hill and sliding down the slopes in the winter. There was a bit of trouble with the ski patrol but after writing letters to DRED and the governor, it was sorted out that I could hike up and ski sown, "If there were no problems". Next chapter, the ski are is leased to the Okemo people. I would like to report that after they took over I didn't need crampons or my ice axe to hike up. The snow grooming was much better. The Okemo gang said I was using their groomed slopes without paying my way and I agreed that they were right and bought a season pass. Over a couple of years the rules were changed so that I had to pick one trail to hike up and then it had to be before or after the lifts opened, and finally, I was banned altogether. Pat's Peak welcomed me and the manager said "If all you want to do is hike up and ski down, why do you need a pass". Anyway the point of all this is that when a private entity leases State property, the rules that were there day one can get changed every year. See
http://www.friendsofmountsunapee.org/images/stories/pdfs/nh_dred/2010-11okemoannualoperatingplan.pdf
If you go to page 7, you will see that you can't hike up even if you have a season pass. Safety, my foot. Our dear friends at DRED, who are only interested in money, approved the plan and it is now the law.
The same thing will happen at Cannon if it is leased. Money rules in NH.

 

[RoySwkr]

This may not be exactly what is being debated here but I would like to report what has happened in another State Park with a ski area here in NH.

Read all about it:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/article/ski-lifts-are-for-slackers

Apparently some people find the above a pay site and others don't, such as Concord Public Library

 

[peakbagger]

Unfortuntely Roythe link appears to be behind a paywall

 

[David Metsky]

Unfortuntely Roythe link appears to be behind a paywall

I could read the article just fine.

 

[dug]

Now it sounds like you are trying to Occupy Cannon Mtn. or something. If one has wealth, their opinion matters less?

 

[Red Oak]

Now it sounds like you are trying to Occupy Cannon Mtn. or something. If one has wealth, their opinion matters less?

I have for the record never gotten the occupy movement concept,lol....but opinion is one thing,using wealth to influence issues seems like a p.a.c. or lobbyist .However,I guess for one party the cash can help achieve a goal?I would like to see this poor area cleaned up and repeat that I would happy to hike up there and pack out some trash or get my chain saw and help cut a new trail for hikers if its legal.