Canon Powershot G9

[Neil]

I'm posting this here instead of the photography forum in order to reach more members.

I'm thinking of upgrading from a Canon Powershot A540 to the G9, which looks as though it might be the Mercedes Benz of P&S cameras. At around $500 it sure isn't entry level.

Has anyone here got anything to say about it?

 

[David Metsky]

It's a very nice camera, certainly an upgrade from your A540. What do you want to do with it? It will make excellent quality images if you know how to use it, and the ability to shoot RAW is something you can take advantage of.

But, it doesn't have as much zoom as some models and for that price you can get a basic DSLR with one nice lens. It's hard to evaluate the camera without knowing what you plan on using it for.

-dave-

 

[Neil]

Where to start?

Anywhere.

I want to make prints. To decorate my office, give away as gifts, create coffee table books, etc.

Also, I'm (slowly) learning how to use photoshop elements in order to process and "play with" images and figured that a better camera would open up more possibilities for getting creative. For now, I mostly work on the lighting and colors to get closer to what I saw in my mind when taking the picture.

I like to take close up shots of tree bark, leaves, details of various things (like my eye ) and the macro feature on my 540 is tricky to focus.

I take a lot of pictures on the fly trying to avoid holding up the group and especially with zoomed pictures get camera shake. I thought image stabe would help.

I take many pics with low light (early starts, late finishes) and was hoping to have wider aperture possibilities. I use the 800 ISO but get too much grain.

The display on the 540 is so-so and I would like a better one for better instant feedback.

Also, I would like to share it with my son who is an art student and who has a unique eye for framing and "post-processing" (doctoring) pics.

I think a DSLR would be too big and bulky for me to want hike with.

 

[hikingfish]

Caution

I'm not very familiar with the G9, but I'll post a word of caution on someone that has a "benz" style camera (well, the gf has one anyhow: the D80 from Nikon).

Sure these cameras will take awesome pictures, BUT these things are huge and heavy and we often find ourselves in the position where we'd rather travel lighter and we simply don't bring the camera (we also carry around a waterproof case, extra zoom lens, extra battery, etc, etc). Also, we don't want to leave the camera in the car for more than 1 minute (we'll bring it inside a gas station when paying, after all, with accessories, it's a rather expensive toy).

If you have a secondary camera, your current canon camera, all of these might not be a concern for you though.

Fish

 

[DougPaul]

I think a DSLR would be too big and bulky for me to want hike with.

I sometimes leave my DSLR at home (and carry a Canon SD-800 IS P&S) because of the size and weight. Depends on the hike, how much I feel like carrying, and how much photography I'm hoping to do.

However, the Canon Digital Rebel series (latest are the XTi and XSi) are pretty light for a DSLR (XTi body: 18oz) and the Canon consumer-grade non-IS lenses are fairly light (XTi 18-55mm kit lens 6.7oz, 55-200mm lens 10.9oz). (Other manufacturers make zooms with a much wider range so some people go with just one lens for hiking.) Also the DR bodies are fairly small--some people with large hands complain that they are too small.

Obviously the choice is yours, but you might like to look at the DR series at least as a data point to compare to other cameras/systems.

FWIW, there are many DR series users on Views.

Doug

 

[DrewKnight]

Sure these cameras will take awesome pictures, BUT these things are huge and heavy and we often find ourselves in the position where we'd rather travel lighter and we simply don't bring the camera...

Completely agree, Fish... my wife and are casual photographers but take gear fairly seriously... I bought her a Nikon D80 for the holidays a year and a half ago -- she loves it, and uses it very happily around home and around town for taking pictures of events, etc... however, there is no way we'd lug it on a hike, ride, or skiing unless we were expressly "taking pictures".

This holiday season, I supplemented the camera bag with a Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ3K, which is a mid-sized point-and-shoot, 7.2 megapixel, with 10x optical zoom and large display... with a 4GB memory card, this has become the go-to device for most activities. On the downside, it's bigger than the smallest "pocket" size cameras (but still small enough for a jacket-pocket), and it lacks a rangefinder. On the upside, the shutterlag is excellent, quality of the images is very good, and it has a Leica lens that is incredibly sharp and clear.

I am not necessarily advocating this particular camera or series -- but I would say seriously consider this range of camera -- higher-end point-and-shoot with good quality, long-zoom lens, etc. It is a very good compromise between DSLR quality and flexibility, and sheer portability.

 

[David Metsky]

The G9 is small enough to carry with you pretty much everywhere. It's not a pocket camera, but it is compact and with it you can take wonderful shots. Not as good as you can with a DSLR and nice lens, but certainly of higher quality then most other P&S cameras.

That said, to really get best quality you should shoot in RAW mode and then post process the images yourself. This is a step beyond adjusting colors in PhotoShop; I'll let Darren or one of the other photogs discuss that further. You'll also need to get into the manual modes and learn what your camera is capable of. If you shoot in Auto you might as well have a lesser P&S. Are you willing to put in the extra work? Printing large images will really show flaws in the shots so you have to work more.

Here's a current thread in another forum I hang out in that shows what the G9 is capable of capturing: http://www.dcresource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39318

 

[BlackBuffalo]

My family has Canons, so I may get one down the road. This G9 is like the type I'm looking for.

I want a point and shoot with a 10 or 12x lens, and at least 7 mp. Nowadays they offer more. Currently I have an 8x lens and could use more.

Everyone recommends an SLR - features are great.
The main thing is an SLR is too much camera in expense, weight and size for me.

 

[David Metsky]

Ultrazooms, like the Canon S5 or the Panasonic FZ18 offer a lot in a fairly compact package. They won't have the low light ability of a DSLR, nor the top notch image quality, but for most of us they will do fine and at a much lower cost/weight/complexity.

 

[yvon]

The Canon G9 WOW!!!!
Neil, I have a collegue at work who just buy a few month ago. It makes great photos and movies.
If you want info on it he could help you maybe, PM me if you want.
Me I will upgrade to the Nikon D300 soon.

 

[Neil]

Today, using my A540 I tried taking a series of photos (20-30) of a row of teeth in a deer jaw from 2 to 12 inches away. I used a variety of camera settings and lighting conditions but couldn't get an image I was satisfied with. I chalked it up to lens quality. Is there more to it than that?

Before buying the G9 I would want to find out about the lens.

 

[NewHampshire]

From the sounds of it I would agree with others who say it may be time to jump into a dSLR. Yes they can be heavy and bulky compared to P&S, but they are a lot more flexible in lens choices (with a P&S what you have is what your stuck with....a dSLR's focal length is limited only to how much you want to spend). Macro, wide angle, zoom's......it all can be had.

Brian

 

[DougPaul]

Today, using my A540 I tried taking a series of photos (20-30) of a row of teeth in a deer jaw from 2 to 12 inches away. I used a variety of camera settings and lighting conditions but couldn't get an image I was satisfied with. I chalked it up to lens quality. Is there more to it than that?

Before buying the G9 I would want to find out about the lens.

There is a fairly good nuts-and-bolts review at http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/G9/G9A.HTM.

A quick back of the envelope calculation (5 crop ratio and 12MP) suggests that the pixels are pretty small yielding noisy high ISO performance. The above review states the noise becomes visible at ISO 200 and worse at higher ISOs. Not very good if you want to do any low-light photography.

(See http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=231661&postcount=10 in the thread on waterfall photography for some discussion on small sensor pixels.)

The lens is a 6-to-1 zoom with eFL of 35-210mm. Large range zooms tend to have poorer optical characteristics than smaller range zooms (eg 3-to-1). I personally have a very strong preference for a 28mm (or shorter) wide angle lens for outdoor scenes. (I have a 16-35mm eFL zoom for my DSLR and use it more than half the time for my outdoor scenes.)

I haven't read the above review in any detail, however I suggest you take a good look before choosing. As NewHampshire suggests, you may be asking for DSLR capabilities.

Doug

 

[David Metsky]

Today, using my A540 I tried taking a series of photos (20-30) of a row of teeth in a deer jaw from 2 to 12 inches away. I used a variety of camera settings and lighting conditions but couldn't get an image I was satisfied with. I chalked it up to lens quality. Is there more to it than that?

Were you manually setting the shutter speed, aperture, and white balance? The A540, while fairly basic, can take quite good pictures if used properly. The biggest thing would be to put the camera on a small tripod, that would allow the camera to choose whatever shutter speed was appropriate without camera shake. There's no guarantee that a camera like the G9 would make a huge difference.

Before buying the G9 I would want to find out about the lens.

The lens for the G9 is the same as the lens for the A650. It's a fine lens, but it's not the selling point of this camera. That is the sensor (also shared with the A650) is large and sensitive. Granted, the large number of pixels leads to more noise then you'd like, but it's still a great CCD sensor.

 

[DougPaul]

Today, using my A540 I tried taking a series of photos (20-30) of a row of teeth in a deer jaw from 2 to 12 inches away. I used a variety of camera settings and lighting conditions but couldn't get an image I was satisfied with. I chalked it up to lens quality. Is there more to it than that?

Neil,

You didn't say what the problem actually is: exposure? focus? lens aberration? camera motion? noise? etc

If focus is the problem:

The auto-focus cameras sometimes (far too often, IMO) choose the wrong thing to focus on. For instance, you try to take a picture of a flower and it focuses on the background. Or you shoot a loon through some branches and it focuses on the branches. I turn off the "intelligent" auto-focus and set it to center-only auto-focus (on all of my digital cameras including the DSLR). I then aim the camera at the object of interest, half press the shutter button to set the focus* and then reaim if necessary before pressing the button the rest of the way to take the pic.

* This half press also sets the auto-exposure. There is a procedure for setting the auto-focus and the auto-exposure separately, but IMO it is too complicated to be practical.

BTW, my Canon cameras do signal when they are unable to achieve autofocus. After an auto-focus failure, I can usually get focus by aiming the center auto-focus spot on an object at the proper distance with more contrast or sharper details. Manual focus is only practical on my DSLR.

Automated intelligence in a camera is, unfortunately, rather stupid and it cannot read the photographer's mind. It is sometimes harder to trick an automated camera into doing what you want than doing it the old-fashioned manual way. (In some ways, my fully manual film SLR is easier and more reliable to use than my fancy new digital cameras with automation. And no surprises because you get to set everything yourself.)

Doug

 

[Woody]

A G9!!

I can't get a new camera right now but I have narrowed down my choices to the Canon G9 (p&s) or the XSi (dslr).

I like the G9 because it has an optical viewfinder as well as a 3 inch LCD screen to go with its 12.1 mp resolution and 6X optical zoom. I like that it can shoot fully manual as well as auto.

Before buying the G9 I would want to find out about the lens.

From the specs page for the G9

Lens
Focal Length
7.4-44.4mm f/2.8-4.8 (35mm film equivalent: 35-210mm)

Digital Zoom
4x

Focusing Range
Normal: 1.6 ft./50cm-infinity
Macro: 0.39 in.-1.6 ft./1-50cm (WIDE)

Autofocus System
TTL Autofocus

One thing to remember is that if you are trying to shoot very close to your subject you will want to put your p&s camera in Macro mode.


On the other hand the Canon XSi is still pretty small and light as far as dslr's go. It has 12.2 mp resolution and a 3 inch LCD screen and it will shoot 3.5 frames per second for sports shots. The plus for me with the XSi is that I can swipe lens' from my son as he upgrades to the Canon L series lens'.

According to my son (photo pro), the G9 is the point and shoot that the pros will throw in their coat pocket

 

[DougPaul]

I like the G9 because it has an optical viewfinder as well as a 3 inch LCD screen to go with its 12.1 mp resolution and 6X optical zoom. I like that it can shoot fully manual as well as auto.

Due to the small sensor, the range of available F-stops is probably rather limited. The max is F/2.8, but I couldn't find the min (it is likely ~F/8). And a limited range of apertures forces a rather limited range of exposure times in any given situation. So even though there are manual exposure controls, they don't have nearly the range available as on a DSLR.

Manual focusing shows a magnified section in the center for feedback. It looks like the manual control of the aperture and exposure time are adjustable through a mode setting and an adjustment ring. (My A75 claims manual controls, but you have to measure the distance and put it in through a menu to focus. Similarly, the exposure interval and aperture have to be entered though menus. So, yes, there are manual controls, but in practice they are almost unusable. It may be worth downloading the manual and checking to see how usable the manual controls really are.)

Doug

 

[dentonfabrics]

I'd recommend the Canon G series. I've owned both the G5 and G7. The G5 was a warrior, surviving 3 years of my clumsiness in the Whites. I dropped it, kicked it, rolled it down a mtn and it still kept on working. I've been much more careful with my G7 however.

It's not too big to carry. I keep it in it's pouch, strapped to the waistband of my pack.

The quality of the pictures are excellent, even in automatic mode.


bob

 

[Neil]

Were you manually setting the shutter speed, aperture, and white balance? The A540, while fairly basic, can take quite good pictures if used properly. The biggest thing would be to put the camera on a small tripod, that would allow the camera to choose whatever shutter speed was appropriate without camera shake. There's no guarantee that a camera like the G9 would make a huge difference.

I was mostly, but not always, using the macro function at various distances, with differing flash intensities and with natural light. The degree of detail I can see with my eye just doesn't come through when I view the results on-screen. I set the camera to aperture value (AV) and used the largest aperture. Maybe the smallest would have improved depth of field. I think I'll try again with tripod and larger aperture.

Here is an example of one type of picture I like taking. Another series of pictures, none of which reveal the full detail of the subject.

Perhaps I'm asking too much of a P&S. I guess that's better than not asking enough.
The consensus seems to be that, for a P&S, the G9 rocks.

 

[DougPaul]

I was mostly, but not always, using the macro function at various distances, with differing flash intensities and with natural light. The degree of detail I can see with my eye just doesn't come through when I view the results on-screen. I set the camera to aperture value (AV) and used the largest aperture. Maybe the smallest would have improved depth of field. I think I'll try again with tripod and larger aperture.

In general, flash may not work very well at macro function distances (ie very close to the camera). The pics are likely to be over-exposed and the lens may throw a shadow into the field of view if the flash is built in to the camera. (You might want to deflect the flash with a mirror and white card to change the angle, spread the source, and reduce the intensity.)

Your eye has greater dynamic range than a camera and you can also fill in detail by looking from different angles. With a photo, you have to get everything into a smaller dynamic range and from just one viewpoint.

IMO, one cannot adequately judge the quality of a pic from the screen. It is just too small to see many kinds of problems.

Here is an example of one type of picture I like taking. Another series of pictures, none of which reveal the full detail of the subject.

Interesting vertebra. A creature with a sail or dorsal fin?

Independent control of the light (ie not mounted on the camera) is likely to be helpful here. And steady (non-flash) lights are a lot easier to set to appropriate angles* and intensities than flashes. Also a wide range of apertures might be useful for setting a DOF that keeps the object sharp while blurring the background.

* Light sources close to the camera tend to hide the distance dimension (ie make the pic look flat) and light sources far from the camera tend to emphasize the distance dimension, but may throw bad shadows. A combination of lights is often best--some sources to show the 3rd dimension and some fill lights to fill in the shadows. Lighting is a whole art form in itself.

Perhaps I'm asking too much of a P&S. I guess that's better than not asking enough.

For the bones, your example pics seem to be taken indoors, so size and weight of the camera would not be issues. The control of a DSLR (particularly with tripod) might be useful here.

The consensus seems to be that, for a P&S, the G9 rocks.

Yes it does seem to be a fancy P&S, but it is still a P&S with a rather fancy price tag ($479.95 at B&H*). For comparison, B&H* lists a Digital Rebel XT (DSLR) with kit lens for $449.95.

*Disclaimer: not endorsing B&H here: just using them for sample prices.

Doug