Car Blocked in By Trees No Help from Loj

[Grumpy]

. . . What ever happened to people taking responsibility for there own actions? . . .

There you go. Folks who park at South Meadow (or Upper Works or at one of the trailheads off Coreys Road, etc.) take their chances as to having a clear road back to civilization after their hike is over.

Part of the charm -- the true charm and magic -- of hiking is that it imposes a self-sufficiency and self-reliance regimen on those who do it. Quite honestly, I always figured that includes being ready to do what it takes to get myself in and out of remote trailhead sites. Having no expectation that anybody is going to come to my aid and bail me out if the road (or my vehicle) goes to Hell in a handcart somewhere "out there" means being ready to take care of my own business if it becomes necessary.

As I read this thread, it actually appears that the guys who had their apres hike route "out" on South Meadow Road impeded by blowdown also worked their way through the situation without help, albeit with considerable effort. Good for them. They'll have a heroic story to tell. Maybe they ought to take a little pride in their capacity to extract themselves from a difficult situation instead of whacking at other folks who turned down a plea to bail them out.

I really believe the lesson in all of this is that it underscores the need to be equipped and ready to deal with your own emergencies rather than expecting somebody else to do it for you.

As for helping others? Personally, I'm always inclined to help other folks who are in a fix. But I soon lose my incentive to assist when they treat courtesies extended as an entitlement.

G.

 

[Peakbagr]

Grumpy,

BRAVO, especially your conclusion !

 

[Rick]

Wow Grumpy, As always, Well spoken.

 

[mavs00]

The crappy thing in all of this is that I was on my way to the Loj to pickup some ADK stickers for my roof box and was really thinking about getting an ADK membership for the year. After that I just didn't feel like it.

It's possible that they were unable to assist you because they were

1. Sweating out in the trenches with trailwork; or
2. Busy begging for money for additional outdoor educational programs; or
3. Busy worrying if the alpine vegetation will live to see another day.; or
4. Busy balancing my needs, as the user, with the preservation of the natural resources in the region.

I pay mine religiously every year. I do so because, not because I agree with every policy or decision they make, or that they guarantee to make the ride to the wilderness hassle free.

I do so because I consider myself a significant user (10-20 trips a year or so) of the region, and they, when all is said and done, do a reasonably good job at at stemming the onslaught of increased usership, and it's environmental impact of the area with their general conservation and advocacy programs

I'm just a schmuck that just strolls the trail and enjoys the fruits of someone else's labor, which is worth my 55 bucks (family membership) all year long. -Check them out-, and If you feel like I do, perhaps you'll reconsider, despite the fact that they failed to live up to your expectations in this instance.

p.s. sorry for the soapbox message, but it's onething to vioce disapointment in their actions, but quite another to threaten withholding of dues over something like this. That's just my opinion.

 

[David Metsky]

thank all the lawerys who are more than willing to take cases like the dumb broad (no offense ladies) who burnt her mouth on hot coffee (isn't coffee supposed to be hot ).

Not hot enough to cause third degree burns in 2-7 seconds and require a 7 day hospital stay for skin grafts. The public perception of this case is at odds with the facts.

Link
Link 2

We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant.

-dave-

 

[spaddock]

It's possible that they were unable to assist you because they were

1. Sweating out in the trenches with trailwork; or
2. Busy begging for money for additional outdoor educational programs; or
3. Busy worrying if the alpine vegetation will live to see another day.; or
4. Busy balancing my needs, as the user, with the preservation of the natural resources in the region.

p.s. sorry for the soapbox message, but it's onething to vioce disapointment in their actions, but quite another to threaten withholding of dues over something like this. That's just my opinion.

Look, what I was told is there were 3 workers just sitting in the lodge not doing much. I wasn't there to confirm this just what I was told. When the guy from the other group got back all he said was, "They basically told us to F*ck off" When you're tired from a 3 day hike and it's pouring rain on your head and the state highway people aren't picking up their phone that just isn't what you want to hear. It's quite possible the other guys that were blocked in were full of it.

I'll probably still buy a membership but at that time I just didn't feel like it.

I was definitely surprised by their response but to be honest I got over that pretty quickly. I'm more dissapointed by this fear of lawsuits attitude. I think it's very sad. When I hear things like three cheers for managing risk I don't know how to respond to that. Not helping someone is usually the less risky thing to do, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I definitely did learn something from this experience. I'll be adding a saw to my car kit along with all the other emergency gear. Maybe even one of those come-along winches, they don't seem to be that expensive.

Grumpy, you're right we do have a pretty cool story to tell now. And it was actually pretty fun levering those trees across the road. I didn't think it was possible until we gave it a shot.


-Shayne

 

[mavs00]

I do so because I consider myself a significant user (10-20 trips a year or so) of the region, and they, when all is said and done, do a reasonably good job at at stemming the onslaught of increased usership, and it's environmental impact of the area with their general conservation and advocacy programs

Oh yeah, I forgot to add. All that, plus I get 10% of all purchases from EMS too

Great response Shayne................ I think all can appreciate your frustration and I certainly hear on the 3 day stroll out blues . Paitience ain't my strong suit at those times either.

Peace

 

[maineguy]

There you go. Folks who park at South Meadow (or Upper Works or at one of the trailheads off Coreys Road, etc.) take their chances as to having a clear road back to civilization after their hike is over.

Yep, from now on I'm gonna start carrying a chain saw and oil/gas to run it whenever I am driving on a state road (at least in NY). These are state maintained roads we are talking about, not logging roads, right?? I suppose a few well placed .357 rounds could shred any impediment, but then again, NY has different laws than Maine.

I usually carry a small pontoon bridge (portable) in case any of the bridges are washed out on the way home, but I had forgotten about the chain saw.

 

[Grumpy]

There you go. Folks who park at South Meadow (or Upper Works or at one of the trailheads off Coreys Road, etc.) take their chances as to having a clear road back to civilization after their hike is over.

Yep, from now on I'm gonna start carrying a chain saw and oil/gas to run it whenever I am driving on a state road (at least in NY). These are state maintained roads we are talking about, not logging roads, right?? I suppose a few well placed .357 rounds could shred any impediment, but then again, NY has different laws than Maine.

I usually carry a small pontoon bridge (portable) in case any of the bridges are washed out on the way home, but I had forgotten about the chain saw.

There goes old maineguy, stirring the pot again!

Well, the roads mentioned above -- South Meadow, Coreys and Upper Works -- hardly are primary thoroughfares. All dead-end, are in fairly rustic condition (like decently graded logging roads) most of the time, and may be town or county-maintained rather than maintained by the state. Further, in the case that precipitated this little discussion, it appears the blowdown may have occurred only hours before the exiting hikers encountered it, and it also seems that blowdown incidents were fairly widespread in the region at the time. So, no doubt, road crews had other work they were attending to.

I'm sure Maine is just about perfect in keeping even remote dead-end roads clear and open . . . within a reasonable time frame. I'd also bet dollars to donuts the great State of Maine road wizards prioritize their road-clearing efforts in such a way that folks out on remote dead-ends may have to cool their heels waiting a bit for the digging/cutting/clearing crews to show up. But, of course, I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and probably not the last, either.

Scoff if you will at those who advocate abiding by the old Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared." I kind of like the old-fashion Yankee spirit that motto embodies: high value on self-reliance. I also appreciate the old-fashion Yankee tendency to have difficulty understanding folks who expect somebody else to be looking out for their personal welfare and convenience all the while.

G.

 

[maineguy]

There goes old maineguy, stirring the pot again!

Scoff if you will at those who advocate abiding by the old Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared." I kind of like the old-fashion Yankee spirit that motto embodies: high value on self-reliance. I also appreciate the old-fashion Yankee tendency to have difficulty understanding folks who expect somebody else to be looking out for their personal welfare and convenience all the while.

G.

I agree, but you have been selective in applying this old adage. I recall an incident last winter when a hiker and his dog needed a helicopter rescue near the Nancy Pond Trail in the Whites. No injury, no unforseen act of God, just got tired and quit. I argued that it was negligent and indeed criminal that a helicopter crew (probably NG reservists) had to risk their lives to save his sorry ass.

You, as I recall, argued with something along the lines of "there but for the grace of God go I". We agreed to disagree.

But now you advocate "be prepared".

Yeah, I know, no lives were in danger, yada yada yada.

BTW, do you carry road clearing equipment when travelling down Corey's Road?

 

[Rivet]

Yep, from now on I'm gonna start carrying a chain saw and oil/gas to run it whenever I am driving on a state road (at least in NY). These are state maintained roads we are talking about, not logging roads, right??

A NY state maintained road will usually have a state route number associated with it (like Route 73) or a federal interstate number (like 87). These would be maintained (mowed, plowed, etc.) by the DOT residency in that county (Essex in this case).
Other streets roads would be maintained by the county or town or city. They have their own plows and crews.
If this road is in a state forest, it may be the responsibilty of the DEC.

 

[Grumpy]

I agree, but you have been selective in applying this old adage. I recall an incident last winter when a hiker and his dog needed a helicopter rescue near the Nancy Pond Trail in the Whites. No injury, no unforseen act of God, just got tired and quit. I argued that it was negligent and indeed criminal that a helicopter crew (probably NG reservists) had to risk their lives to save his sorry ass.

You, as I recall, argued with something along the lines of "there but for the grace of God go I". We agreed to disagree.

But now you advocate "be prepared".

Yeah, I know, no lives were in danger, yada yada yada.

BTW, do you carry road clearing equipment when travelling down Corey's Road?

Sorta like comparing lobsters and crawfish here, don't you think?

My position isn't changed. If there's a rescue group at hand -- voluntarily charged with the task of rescuing folks in dire straits -- and someone is in real distress, I don't advocate leaving him/her to the wolves, so to speak. And I don't think that getting oneself in a pickle always amounts to reckless behavior. Stuff does happen. Even to the best prepared among us. But that's another discussion.

Just now we're not batting around a situation in which life was imperiled, as you acknowledge. No emergency in any real sense of the word. Let's leave it at that.

And, yep! I do keep an axe and (hand) saw and tow strap in my vehicle, along with the vehicle jack. And a shovel, in snow season. Anything blocking my way that I can't handle with those things means I'll be sitting a spell until the road I'm on comes to the top of the priority list for clearing. If the vehicle breaks down and I can't get it running again, well, I accept the fact that my outing may just have been extended. I have no expectation of special or expedited service to suit my convenience. Won't turn down assistance if it's offered freely, either, and will accept it with humble gratitude.

G.

 

[maineguy]

OK, thanks Grumpy...

Now I have an answer for the cop that asks what the axe in the back of my vehicle is for...

"road clearance equipment, officer"

 

[shadowcat]

"lending a hand - or a chain saw.."

i have to say i am responding after reading just the 1st page so i apologize if this has already been covered. i can understand why the adk folks would not lend their equipment out. BUT didn't the thread say there were 2-3 adk folks there? i would have thought that at least one of them would have offered to go over and lend a hand. not one person even offered to help? if so, then that is too bad & a sorry reflection on them. if there was only 1 person maybe they would not be able to leave but if there were 2 or 3; it would have been nice for 1 to offer to come over and give you a hand. i'm sure any anger you felt about this came in handy when you needed that extra strenght to do the job yourself! just don't let incidents like this jade you - i've learned that what you give is what you get in this world!

 

[Peakbagr]

The Loj crew had their hands full at the time. Perhaps the person "requesting" assistance might have been a little demanding? As a matter of fact, a tree had fallen on a Jeep on the Loj property and the crew was dealing with that as well as blowdown elsewhere.

 

[spaddock]

Scoff if you will at those who advocate abiding by the old Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared." I kind of like the old-fashion Yankee spirit that motto embodies: high value on self-reliance. I also appreciate the old-fashion Yankee tendency to have difficulty understanding folks who expect somebody else to be looking out for their personal welfare and convenience all the while.

1. I'm sorry I guess I only know of Human Spirit.

2. I'm sorry I didn't carry the entire Home Depot tools section in the back of my car. I guess I'm not a real hiker.

3. I'm really sorry the guy in the van went to ask for help. What the heck was he thinking.

4. I'm sorry I didn't have Paul Bunyan as one of my hiking buddies this weekend. (Although my buddy Phil came close).

5. But I'm the sorriest for starting this thread.


-Shayne

 

[ADKatie]

Thank you, Shayne, for clearing that road. I'm sure many motorists who followed that day have no idea what you did to make their passing easier, but you know and that's what counts.

In this instance, you were the HELPER, not the HELPEE, and while your story is swayed very much in the perspective of what help you did not RECEIVE, look with a proud eye on the the help you GAVE.

It's good to turn the tables once in a while and GIVE help, which you did, instead of the tendency that Grumpy mentioned, which is to expect others to come to our aid.

I applaud the hard work you did, just as I applaud the hard work the trail crews do. Just because you aren't the paid worker who would normally do such a task does not nullify your effort.

So look at it with a "glass if half full" perspective and pat yourself on the back!

It's all good...

 

[Grumpy]

1. I'm sorry I guess I only know of Human Spirit.

2. I'm sorry I didn't carry the entire Home Depot tools section in the back of my car. I guess I'm not a real hiker.

3. I'm really sorry the guy in the van went to ask for help. What the heck was he thinking.

4. I'm sorry I didn't have Paul Bunyan as one of my hiking buddies this weekend. (Although my buddy Phil came close).

5. But I'm the sorriest for starting this thread.


-Shayne

Please, Shayne, don't think my remarks were intended to be critical of you, personally. As I mentioned earlier, it appears you guys actually took care of your situation with what resources you had at hand. You ought to be quite proud of that -- it qualifies you as having been "prepared" in my book.

Being prepared isn't just tangible tools, you know. It's also that Human Spirit thing. All the axes and saws and tow straps in the world won't get you out of a fix unless you're ready to dig in and help yourself. And as for having adequate tools in your vehicle . . . well, nobody is suggesting a full kit of industrial road building and clearing stuff. Just a few basics.

Truth is, I'm a big believer in Human Spirit, too. It covers all sorts of ground, from being self-reliant to being a Good Samaritan. I've both given and received a lot of help in tough spots over the years. Enjoyed doing the former and much appreciated getting the latter. I believe in the Golden Rule, which admonishes us to treat others as we would wish to be treated. There's another old Boy Scout thing, called the Boy Scout slogan, that says, "Do a good turn daily." Something to live by. Hope I measure up to the character challenge it sets out.

I haven't a clue as to why the Adirondack Joj guys didn't come to your aid. Nor do I care, especially. They didn't, and that's that. You got out of the mess without their help. Turned out you really didn't need their assistance after all, even if it would have been nice to get it. Maybe somebody else had more need for their services at that moment. Things sometimes work out that way, even if it's not immediately evident.

So there's really a happy ending to the story.

You shouldn't be sorry for starting the discussion. It really has been a dandy.

G.

 

[Rick]

Thinking about this brings back memories of the microburst in July, 1995.
That Saturday afternoon I started driving home from the High Peaks via Rte 3 (to Rochester). It was a horror scene everywhere. I was directed off Rte 3 by Fireman and took backroads home - I was driving down these backroads and would come to huge trees across the road and have to turn around and find another road. Thank goodness for my Delorme Topo and my extra gallon of Coleman fuel. There was no power until I got down to Utica. There was no gas to pump at the stations in the little towns I came across (I bought another extra gallon of coleman fuel with what little cash I had - no credit cards machines were up). What normally took 4.5 hours now took 13.5 hours.

I look back fondly on that day now It was truly an adventure, much the same as the Ice Storm that hit Rochester in Feb, 1991 and then again around 1997. I helped a lot of folks back then and I really enjoyed it. I was never upset about anything during these times of trouble. I actually enjoyed them all as adventures - Let the circumstances take me where they may.

Spaddock, What I am trying to say (though not as eloquently as Grumpy) is forget any negatives and look back on this teambuilding exercise as fondly as possible. There is never any reason to get upset at these minor inconveniences. Don''t let thes eminor things stress you out. Things will happen and make the best of them, after all, aren't we all really looking for some adventure?
Cheers

 

[spaddock]

What I am trying to say (though not as eloquently as Grumpy) is forget any negatives and look back on this teambuilding exercise as fondly as possible. There is never any reason to get upset at these minor inconveniences. Don''t let thes eminor things stress you out. Things will happen and make the best of them, after all, aren't we all really looking for some adventure?

Make no mistake, I had a blast last weekend!

Thick ice on the herd paths, no problem, I felt like Spiderman with those crampons on. I was pumping my fist like Tiger Woods after bagging Gray. Up on top of Skylight at sunset, simply amazing. Lost a stove part, found out a metal fork spreads the flame just as well. Busted crampon cuz I torqued the bolt too much, oh well, good thing I have duct tape. Rain on the hike out, bring it on! Trees down on the way out, we just had to laugh at that.

Driving home I set the car on cruise and cranked the radio. 26 down, 20 to go. Not bad since my goal for the year was to get my total to 20. I even made it back on time for the birthday party I was supposed to be at.

Only wish I would have had more time to pick up some cases of American Mountain Dew. Next time....


-Shayne