Car Break In Response from AMC Huts Manager

[sapblatt]

I had a correspondence with Mike Krautz regarding the break ins. He has given me permission to post his response at VFTT.

His response:

Unfortunately there have been a number of car break-ins at the
trailheads you mention. Five AMC hut crewmembers have had their
vehicles vandalized as well. The AMC is responsible for conservation,
education and recreation in the White Mountain National Forest.
Although these window smashing rascals make adding "vigilante justice"
to that list enticing, we can't. The Forest Service does have several
Law Enforcement officers. I have been in touch with them and passed on
my concerns, and those of our guests. Your comments will be helpful as
we discuss what to do with our partners at the Forest Service. One
option is to leave private vehicles at Pinkham Notch or at the Highland
Center (both have had fewer problems with break-ins) and ride the AMC
shuttle to the trailhead.

If there are any developments, or arrests, I'll let you know.

Regards,

Mike

______________________________

Michael Quist Kautz
Appalachian Mountain Club
Huts Manager

 

[Peakbagr]

The Adirondacks had a real problem at the Garden trailhead a number of years ago. They installed a video camera in the woods and nailed the yahoo.
He had thousands of dollars of hiking equipment and clothing plus cameras and more in his garage.

With the advances in technology, I would guess that small, lithium battery cameras could be installed in the woods near trailheads having the worst problems. Probably the same person or gang. Is there a local municipality where the breakins are centered and where questions could be directed?
Also, are there any techie's here who might estimate what it would cost to buy or rent this kind of gear? Perhaps a donation from VFTT members or AMC might help?

 

[Gris]

I would guess that small, lithium battery cameras could be installed in the woods near trailheads...

YIKES!!! They'd have me on the first plane to Gitmo!

 

[sapblatt]

Is there a local municipality where the breakins are centered and where questions could be directed?

The locales are pretty widespread, but the one common denominator seems to be is that the most common trail heads for break ins are the same trailheads that lead to AMC huts...could be thiefs are guessing that people that park there late in the day are likely gone for a day or two...
I really like the camera idea...have no idea how difficult it would be to put into practice.

 

[1ADAM12]

Like I said in the other break in thread.....you can get those cameras that hunters use for spotting game. They are motion cameras and when the perp walks in the line of view it takes a picture without anyone knowing. Here is a link so you get the idea of what i am talking about. This one is a little pricey do to the fact that it is digital but you can also purhase film cameras too.

Sapblatt keep us posted if they nail these creeps!

 

[Peakbagr]

Its a good idea in practice, but the trip range of those game cameras is short. Because a deer or wild animal will run at the shutter snap, they don't need to be useful at a distance. A shutter or flash going off 10' from the perp will probably mean they'll get the camera too.

 

[marty]

Does anyone know if the vehicles broken into had alarms? For professional car thiefs, car alarms do not present problems, but they are supposed to deter the common thief/vandal. I do not have an alarm myself, but am just curious.

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Does anyone know if the vehicles broken into had alarms? For professional car thiefs, car alarms do not present problems, but they are supposed to deter the common thief/vandal. I do not have an alarm myself, but am just curious.

Don't get me wrong...I think car alarms help deter vandalism and theft, but what difference would an alarm make at Gale River Trailhead, or Zealand, or any other remote parking area. Who's going to hear it.

 

[rondak46]

site survey

The first thing I would do If I lived near there (and I will be soon) would be to do a facilities site survey.

1. Are there telephone poles near the parking areas?
2. Is there telephone AND Electric cables on the poles?
3. Is there a splice case on the telelphone cables?
4. Is there a telephone box (usually a green plastic or metal pilon) nearby?
5. What are the distances?
5. How many bars do you get on your cell phones at these sites and what carriers do you have?

Telephone cables are usually the second set of cables from the top.

If there are facilities, (and available electric may not be necessary), DSL can provide connectivity to record activity at the lot. DC voltage could also be provided by the phone company.

A fake camera can do the trick to but won;t catch anyone.

I am sure some of us could volunteer some time to keep the cost of some of the work down.

As far as cost goes and who will pay for it, I won't begin to guess, but as far as the technology and facilites goes this is where I would start.

Mike

 

[MichaelJ]

Rondak ...
The Gale River and Zealand trailheads that were mentioned are both several miles up dirt fire roads that have no utilities whatsoever going up them.

For what it's worth, the things we dislike most about the AMC may help us all out here, because it's no good for hut business if the patrons stop coming because of fear of car breakins, and they have the resources to push on law enforcement the way we individuals can't.

Maybe.

 

[rondak46]

Remote roads reach main roads...

... somewhere along the line. Facilities could be available at these places and show people coming and going.

There is no better feeling than catching rats like these thieves.

I don't know anything about the AMC issues and I'll try to stay ignorant.

In the end we are all hikers and hate having our windows smashed.

Mike

 

[RGF1]

Please be careful about doing something

Interesting thread, and a sad one too. . If you wanted to record these people you might need a video camera with IR capability that would make it harder to identify. It is probable that they perpetrate their acts at night. . Also you might want very high-speed film that can be pushed in processing to a higher speed. It is harder for a defense attorney to say that you manipulated a negative or slide. So a person would have to be there just having a device that trips the camera might or might not catch the criminals. You could well catch nothing more than a moose or bear. You would also have to have people at more than one site and leave a vehicle enticing to the perpetrators. Any one want to offer up theirs?
Things that might help are a photo voltactic device that can both power the camera and charge batteries. . Some one would have to be operating it in order to get a usable image of the perpetrators. Second people to provide further witnesses. And maybe operate a camera. You would have to be well hidden and have some means of self-defense if you are found out by the jerks. I do not suggest a fire arm just mace, at most.
Cooperation with local state police and the USFS or if needed the State Park . Doing something like this with out them in the loop might not go over well and actually hurt you.
I have a feeling the law enforcement types might not like the idea of people literally doing vigilante stake outs on public land. Also consulting with a very good -read very expensive attorneys.
Unfortunately things are not so simple If the police did happen to pass by and see you with all that surveillance equipment they might just take you in for a chat.
I would love to see the SOBs caught also I did talk to a Trooper out of Twin MT earlier while cutting some wood. They pass by to make sure you are ok. He said that while they do try to catch them eventually they do catch a few as they try to unload things they take. Or get caught in some other criminal enterprise.
Thing you can do One if you have a AMC sticker on you vehicle get it off that seems to be something that attracts them . . Take your valuables with you do not hide a spare key . One person suggested leaving empty shot gun shells from a shot gun. That is not a good idea if you get pulled over. it gives the coops probable cause to search your car. It also might make them think there is a valuable gun in the vehicle
The NRA sticker hard to say how that would work. Leaving a small mess fast food bags empty coffee cups that is not the other kind of mess might help, once again hard to say. .
Do not leave ****y traps even Urine in a beer bottle that will probably get YOU in trouble if they drink it and get sick Self defense only works if you are in immediate threat of life or property.
Sadly ther is not a lot you can really do.
But if people do want ot try stake out I would contact the NH state police probably by Phone Email and a snail mail letter. Stating the nature of the probably and why you want to do some thing and what you want to do . They might be willing ot offer some assistance as catching these nitwits often leads to bigger fish.
Carrying a cell phoine and if you do see something suspicious give them a call * 77 . Or if you are hiking do Stop in at a Hut and ask them to contact the Cops.
I think waiting for them and doing a stake out might even put you in danger if they find out people are doing it they might just look around for you first they could well be armed with any thing from a large knife baseball bat some sort of metal bar or even a fire arm.
Mostly I am concerned for every ones safety and the reputation of VVFT and the hiking community, in general. Sorry if I put a damper on some great ideas that every one would love to do some them myself but it could really blow up in our faces unless done right and with cooperation form law enforcement.
Do it right and it might stop it do it wrong and it could really be a disaster.

 

[jjmcgo]

Great contribution, Rondak46

People on this board understand the inexpensive technology that can be applied to this situation. Unfortunately, this will all be scuttled when intelligence meets the real world of police unions.
You mentioned "issues" you want to avoid? Police officials will convince politicians more cops are needed, ... weekdays 9 to 5. Technology won't work, they'll say. The Forest Service isn't going to get any more employees in this administration.
Interesting, the AMC officials says Pinkham and Highland have "fewer" problems. You'd think they'd be secure.

 

[dentonfabrics]

Hi,

Can someone here recap the name of the trailheads that have had break-ins or how many cars have been hit?

I was thinking of hiking the 19 Mile Brook Trail next week but that trail leads to Carter Hut. Maybe I'll rethink doing Carter Dome and do another route, away from the huts.

Either way, these break-ins are harshing my mellow. (I love saying that...)

 

[David Metsky]

If you are dayhiking it's highly unlikely that you'll have a problem, no one is likely to hit these during lots during the day. There's too much risk of people arriving off the trail or by car to risk it. The breakins almost always happen over night.

There have probably been breakins at nearly every trailhead in the Whites at some point it time. I don't think it's possible to set up a truely safe system with that many parking areas scattered over such remote terrain. The camera idea could help, but not for long, as it's pretty easy to avoid being identified. More patrols by police and FS rangers is the best bet, IMO.

-dave-

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

Hi,

Can someone here recap the name of the trailheads that have had break-ins or how many cars have been hit?

I was thinking of hiking the 19 Mile Brook Trail next week but that trail leads to Carter Hut. Maybe I'll rethink doing Carter Dome and do another route, away from the huts.

Either way, these break-ins are harshing my mellow. (I love saying that...)

Almost any parking areas that are used overnight by people staying at AMC facilities. The most common are:

19 Mile Brook Trail---Cater Notch Hut
Zealand Trail---Zealand Hut
Gale River Trail---Galehead Hut
Pinkham Notch Visitors Center

The break-ins usually occur late on Friday and Saturday nights, but have occured during the day.

19 Mile Brook parking area should be ok during the day because it's right on Rt. 16.

 

[HikerBob]

While many of the parking lots are quite remote they all have limited access points from feeder routes that do have utilities.

Video surveilance cameras that monitored and recorded vehicle entrance and egress from trailheads could soon identify culprits. The system would also provide a deterrent to would be vandals and thieves. Most would be too lazy to try and circumvent the systems.

There are obviously privacy concerns, but really is it a big deal? We are monitored in every major store, mall and many public areas already. The system would be recording information that would only be reviewed in the event of an incident.

Bob

 

[spencer]

A shutter or flash going off 10' from the perp will probably mean they'll get the camera too.

That's hilarious! Yeah, let's give the thief more things to steal...

If the thief is smart, he or she is reading VFTT...

I've always wanted to come back to a trailhead and find some dirtbag lifting something out of the back of my truck. I have plans for such a person...

spencer

 

[Dugan]

Good advice from RGF1. I too would strongly recommend against ****y traps, lures, or otherwise. If someone can sue you and win for being harmed while breaking into your house, I'd think the same would apply with a car.

Better to not leave valuables in the car, and leave everything open so it's obvious there aren't valuables hidden. I don't know if I'd go so far as to leave windows open or doors unlocked.

 

[SherpaKroto]

I've always wanted to come back to a trailhead and find some dirtbag lifting something out of the back of my truck. I have plans for such a person...

spencer

I've seen you manhandle someone from this board (not me!) in a funny wrestling match up in BSP last winter I shudder to think what you could do if you were mad!

sapblatt: sounds like parking at the Highland Center is not frowned upon as much as in the past. Thanks for the timely info!