Cleaning soles with alcohol to increase stickiness?

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marty

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Hi all -
I recently read in another forum that someone cleaned the bottom of their rubber soles with alcohol (rubbing alcohol, I presume) to increase their stickiness. Does anyone have any experience with doing this?

Thanks,
Marty
 
I had heard this too. I tried it with climbing shoes many years ago. It sems to make the shoes feel "stickier" to the touch, but I don't know if that correlates to sticking to rock any better. Climbing shoe manufacturers advise against the procedure.
 
TCD said:
Climbing shoe manufacturers advise against the procedure.
Alcohol is a solvent, I suppose it could soften the glue used to fasten the soles. So if you try this, I suggest that you avoid getting any on the sides of the sole. There is also the potential for the alcohol to damage the rubber itself.

I vaguely recall that some climbers used to scuff the soles to expose fresh rubber (particulary if the shoe hadn't been used in a long time).

Climbing shoes frequently use a soft sticky rubber which would wear out rather quickly on a hiking boot. The harder rubber on most hiking boots might also respond differently than the rubber on climbing shoes.

Climbers also wipe the shoe soles on their pants legs to get the grit off--safe for the shoe and might help in some circumstances.

Doug
 
This is true, you wouldn't want to get the alcohol anywhere near the sides of the sole. Climbers look long and hard to find shoes that take more than a year to delaminate under even moderate use. Speeding up that process in any way is a bad idea. As said, I tried it once with very limited results.

The scuffing idea works well to bring out some of the "tack" that climbing shoes have, but it's a double-edged sword. It helps with grip in some situations, on the toe and for heel-hooks, and in slightly wet conditions as well, but on smooth rock sometimes it's better to have a smooth sole for more contact, like treaded tires vs. slicks. Vigorous scuffing will also shorten the life of a shoe, but some people don't seem to care.

How this translates to hard rubber soles on hiking boots is unclear. I'm usually too busy applying glue to my boots to even think about applying a solvent.
 
The molecular weight of a polymerized molecule is huge (such as vulcanized rubber and adhesives) and the whole molecule is just too large to lift into solution. Hence, when trying to describe and predict the behavior of polymerized materials with solvents, a chemist (or chemical engineer) will consult the "solubility parameters" of materials. A solvent with similar solubility parameters to a large polymer can swell the material to several times its original size and will weaken its tensile strength considerably but won't dissolve it.

The solubility parameters incorporate hydrogen bonding ability, dipoles present within the molecules themselves, and the non-polar effect of random dipoles of electron movements in molecular orbitals (van der Walls interactions) of the molecules. If anybody is still with me here: small molecular weight alcohols such as methanol and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol) are very high in hydrogen bonding ability while polymerized rubber has next to no hydrogen bonding ability. However, there are some dipoles present in it, Hence solvents such as ethers, chloroform and acetone will make it more sticky as is swells the surface. (Ethers are not commonly available to the general public as exposure to oxygen will create explosive peroxides.)

Modern adhesives tend to be polyurethanes which are very high in dipole interactions and hence more affected by the solvents mentioned above. Depending on the adhesive it may have some hydrogen bonding ability and hence adversely affected by alcohols. Most of the effect of the alcohol is probably to clean the surface very well and leave little residue. I am not a climber, but I would think a dishwashing detergent would do a better job of removing grease/oils, leave very little residue if properly removed and would not affect the rubber or the adhesives nearly as much.
 
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Windex

For what it's worth, I have used Windex and very hot water and a course scrub brush to clean sneaker soles, golf grips etc and it has always worked great. L
 
betcha some 100% deet would give the soles a good squish/squash, practically everytime i use it it and forget to remove my watch it fuzes my watch bands together.
hand sanitizer gel might work also, plus i find it too be a good firestarter.
its kinda funny that both of these products are usually applied to your skin!
 
Windex is a great idea, it removes grease and oils very well and leaves no residue.

DEET (N,N-diethyl meta toluamide) has solubility parameter very close to that of acrylic and polycarbonate (plastic watch crystal) and hence swells them. Also, it is not very volitile so it will hang around and affect the rubber and adhesives for a long time causing dirt and dust to stick to it. Thus potentially making the rubber sole more slippery after a very short time.

The solvent in waterless hand cleaner is just isopropanol. Plus it has a soluble thickener (low molecular weight polymer for example sodium carboxy methy cellulose, or sodium salt of polyacrylic acid, or poly-pyridine type molecule) this thickener would leave quite a residue.
 
Paradox said:
Windex is a great idea, it removes grease and oils very well and leaves no residue.
Soap and water (with a rinse) probably works well too.

The solvent in waterless hand cleaner is just isopropanol. Plus it has a soluble thickener (low molecular weight polymer for example sodium carboxy methy cellulose, or sodium salt of polyacrylic acid, or poly-pyridine type molecule) this thickener would leave quite a residue.
If you are referring to hand sanitizer, all of my bottles list ethanol (~60%) as the active ingredient. Some, but not all of the bottles list isopropanol as an inactive ingredient.

Different alcohol, but I doubt that it changes the conclusion.

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
Soap and water (with a rinse) probably works well too.
Technically speaking "soap" is the salt (sodium, potassium) of a long chain fatty acid. Calcium/magnesium in hard water causes these materials to precipitate a "scum" from solution which will leave a residue and may cause problems for the person who needs traction from their shoes (Ivory is soap). The reason I suggested a "detergent" is because technically speaking these are sodium salts of sulfonated fatty acids (ex. sodium lauryl sulfate). These materials stay in solution in the presence of hard water and leave no residue if properly rinsed. Most dishwashing liquids such as Dawn (my personal favorite) have very little additives to leave a residue. Detergents are also found in shampoos but there are conditioners and so forth in these products and they are designed to leave a residue.

DougPaul said:
If you are referring to hand sanitizer, all of my bottles list ethanol (~60%) as the active ingredient. Some, but not all of the bottles list isopropanol as an inactive ingredient.

Different alcohol, but I doubt that it changes the conclusion.
Sorry, I'm sure you are right I was going on memory there. But, you are right, it doesn't change the conclusion too much, unless you are planing to drink it. The isopropanol is in there so you can't drink it without untoward and frequent outcomes. It seems to me that the residue would be the major problem for teatotalers.
 
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Paradox said:
Technically speaking "soap" is the salt (sodium, potassium) of a long chain fatty acid. Calcium/magnesium in hard water causes these materials to precipitate a "scum" from solution which will leave a residue and may cause problems for the person who needs traction from their shoes (Ivory is soap). The reason I suggested a "detergent" is because technically speaking these are sodium salts of sulfonated fatty acids (ex. sodium lauryl sulfate). These materials stay in solution in the presence of hard water and leave no residue if properly rinsed. Most dishwashing liquids such as Dawn (my personal favorite) have very little additives to leave a residue. Detergents are also found in shampoos but there are conditioners and so forth in these products and they are designed to leave a residue.
Yes, I am aware of the chemical properties of soap (sodium/potassium stearate in some versions)--my wording was a bit careless. Detergent is generally a better choice if you have hard water. (Or make sure that you only wash your shoe soles in soft water... :) )


Sorry, I'm sure you are right I was going on memory there. But, you are right, it doesn't change the conclusion too much, unless you are planing to drink it. The isopropanol is in there so you can't drink it without untoward and frequent outcomes. It seems to me that the residue would be the major problem for teatotalers.
One thing that I would like to add--hand sanitizer is not designed as a cleaner. It is designed to kill pathogens, not remove dirt. So, while the ethanol might do some cleaning (particularly if you wipe it off before it evaporates), it might not be the best agent for the job. Some of the alcohol could still damage glue or diffuse into the rubber and change it slightly.

BTW, the term "waterless hand cleaner", as I know it, refers to products for removing grease and greasy dirt (eg from working on a car) from one's hands without water. (Worth having if you have to work on your car in the field...) Have no idea if they are any good on the soles of your boots... :)

Doug
 
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What about Methyl Ethyl Ketone? I have seen it available as a spray-on for tires that allow for more grip, and it's even sold at Wal-Mart.

I"m just asking the question, I know it's nasty stuff, hence the moniker "Methyl Ethyl Death".
 
MEK is a very similar chemical to Acetone. These are very different from Alcohol (they are ketones, not alcohols). For many organic materials, ketones are much stronger solvents than alcohols. (Think Nail Polish Remover vs. Rubbing Alcohol). MEK or Acetone might quickly dissolve adhesives and other components of shoes and sportswear, and destroy the items, so I'd avoid using them.
 
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