"climb for the wrong reasons"

[spongebob]

I guess I am one of those sad people that has done some lists along the way, and I get cringed at as I appear to hike for the wrong reasons to some.

Yet you probably have never met or know me. Why do you think you know why I hike and how I enjoy it?

I really do think there are people that are not giving their full opinion or watering down their post to not appear that there way of hiking is the best. (elitist, superior, blah blah blah)

An example:
Some people would consider it “hiking for the wrong reasons” when I sometimes use a GPS, as they feel it is a toy or it is a crutch. (From seeing some views from people in past threads on the subject.) I guess using the Earth’s magnetic field isn’t cheating though for a compass. It is all a matter of perspective. When I was in New Zealand my GPS helped in a helicopter rescue of a hypothermic hiker in a in a foggy rainy area. Was the GPS a toy or crutch to the rescued hiker? Now if you want to argue the Earth’s magnetic field is free range and organic, and a GPS is raised by big corporations. I really would dig that angle.

We are all doing lists even though you don’t think you are. You are doing the “Earth hiking” list or the “No list” hiking list. Like when you “bagged #45” (walking to your car from your house.) I won’t look down at you or feel superior. (Unless you are JayH, because he bikes to work, and does not support the oil companies and their giant profits. Pretty self centered Jay.)

Everyone hikes for their own reason. If you hike because you hate rocks, and want to walk on as many as possible…..Go for it! (Ok that is my reason.)

I also really like seeing remote ponds, getting my legs cut up while bushwhacking, writing “Nancy is a Geek” in canisters, have HarryK break trail, have the velvet hammer plan a weekend, make rude jokes at or with Funky and Matt…….I guess the mountains, streams, views, forests, and wildlife are somewhat not totally puke inducing (Hudson River excluded)…..…the list could go on……whoops what is another word for list…..damn….

I guess it really shouldn’t matter why people hike. (Unless they are a fugitive on the run from the law.) We all have different reasons. You may feel a person may not respect the outdoors, but someone might not respect you for not getting all the information before forming your opinion. Damn that makes me an elitist.

Oh, and I kick kittens, club baby seals (Well until the lead pipe broke this season.), and drive thru puddles to splash old ladies. So maybe you are better than me.

 

[DougG]

I think this question/discussion resurfaces now and then because of what we have been conditioned to believe hiking has become. Something more complex than it really is.

By GAWD - consider the catalogs. There must be right vs. wrong stuff to buy to be a 'proper' hiker.
Consider the explosion of guidebooks in recent decades. There must be right vs. wrong places to hike.
Consider the abundance of rules and regulations. These clearly demonstrate right from wrong.
How many threads on these BBs discuss/debate/enrage on topics considered right from wrong?
To attempt clarity, I'm not suggesting any of these are good or bad. My point is that with the conditioning we've received, it's not unusual to expand the thought process to wonder if we're hiking for the 'right' reason.

Now go out and put one in front of the other.

 

[blacknblue]

Of course, the nature of this discussion hinges on the definition of "wrong" or "right." Perhaps discussing healthy vs. unhealthy reasons would be beneficial and less contentious?

It seems obvious that there are plenty of unhealthy reasons to hike (or to do anything, for that matter - activities are seldom inherently 'good'). However, discerning those reasons in others is probably impossible, which is why people get defensive when called out in such a way. The only people qualified to discern whether my actions are healthy/right or unhealthy/wrong are myself and a few very close friends.

Sometimes I'm tempted to go for a hike/camping trip/ski trip for reasons that are unhealthy, usually having to do with avoiding difficult situations (although I can always make rationales for it) that I really should be dealing with. Sometimes my obsessive behavior manifests itself in hiking / climbing / mountaineering goals that probably aren't emotionally healthy.

Tough question to answer.... it takes a lot of self-awareness and introspection (and some years of retrospection) to really figure out what may or may not be healthy.

 

[chipc]

Hard not to agree with most of what’s being said, but in the end I think Spongebob has it right – “Everyone hikes for their own reason.” Also I like Blacknblue’s modification to “healthy” vs “unhealthy” reasons .

I definitely have hiked to escape from a responsibility; however, more often at the last minute I have opted not to hike because of some work or home responsibility. Sounds weird – hiking is my favorite way to relax, but I have to be relaxed to be able to hike.

 

[sierra]

seemas post was very good and I concurr. Now that being said I have hiked to simply escape from life, without going into details Something very bad happened to me many years ago, life was awfull and I could not take people, working, family, anything. So I escaped to the mountains and climbed over and over, I averaged over 120 4ks a year for a while. It was medicinal and it gave me what I needed, space, it also kept me fit while I pummeled my body with alcohol and drugs. In the end I came out quite a climber, well versed in rock,ice, peakbagging and navigation, but way more important, I came out a new man with a love for what cured me and gave me time to think and move on, the mountains, now I climb because the mountains became part of my soul, all mountains, here, in CO in CA, I love all mountains and the tidings they have to offer.
Now that I think about it, this really doesnt fit this posting, I hiked for the right reasons after all. Be Well all.

 

[Neil]

Right and wrong are decided by the majority aren't they? Eating the brains of one's enemies is considered "right" in some populations. I'm sure it's "wrong" according to every one on this forum. (Well maybe not EVERYone) Same for reasons for hiking. You could say that the wrong reason(s) for hiking are those that the majority of VFTT members disapprove of and be done with it.

So, what do YOU disapprove of in a peakbagging list chaser? I personally disapprove of people bitching about doing a hike they don't really want to do simply for the purposes of getting closer to completion of a list.

(Incidentally, I heartily approve of Giggy and his doing Washington umpteen different ways. In fact while doing the Carters the other day I was looking over at the big W thinking about just that.
That is one kick-ass mountain. Why settle for second best when the best is right there?)

 

[chas]

I finished the New Hampshire 4000 footers (with my 6 year old son climbing Moosilauke, his first 4000 footer) -still haven't applied to get the patch.

That's pretty much where I ended up a while back, finised the NH 48 and never really cared about the patch.

This year I started hiking again, partly for fitness and partly because one of my sons (now grown) developed his own zeal for the NH 4000s'. What I've noticed is this; when I hike with my son, it's all about what peak is next etc. When I plan a solo trip I have the luxury of choosing what I think would be nice, usually based on previous trips from my peak bagging days or what I read here. In short, neither way is right or wrong, it's just that there's a freedom that comes when you're finished with the lists and I like that.

Chas.

 

[sleeping bear]

It's all about goals, lists make for nice goals.

I have my own list.

 

[--M.]

I hike in the usually-vain hope of dining upon the brains of my enemies when I get to the top. So far, I have eaten not one enemy's brain! What the hell?

Well, I continue to hike anyway.

If one of you is really feeling philanthropic, could you piss me off real bad and then hang around a 4k peak? Thanks, you're a dear.

--Hannibal.

 

[VFTTop'r]

Ok, I thought that was funny...

I order to call a motive "wrong", don't we need to define the word? I think this topic is really silly - we are climbing piles of dirt and rock and questioning others motives for doing so. Why do we need to get so philosophical? I suppose I am one of those who would admit having climbed to the summit of Owl's head and thought "boy am I glad that's over." I hike for the exercise and the views and get my religion elsewhere. Why judge someone elses motives?

I aggree with Jason. Who cares?!

I also do it to help the environment by keeping the trails well packed and add a few stones to the new cairn at the base of Owls Head, etc.

 

[JohnL]

Right and wrong are decided by the majority aren't they?

I am not sure I would want any majority deciding for me whether my reasoning for hiking is right or wrong or for that matter, on how I hike. Caveat: no destruction, no injuries, no abuse.

The whole concept of right reasons or wrong reasons to hike conjures up a position of elitism; my reasons are more right than yours, I’m a more serious hiker than you, I have more reverence for the mountains than you; I appreciate the flora/fauna more than you, yadda yadda yadda.

Whenever I come across these threads, I am taken back to a quote from a climber/author who said:
"We do not deceive ourselves that we are engaging in an activity that is anything but debilitating, dangerous, euphoric, kinesthetic, expensive, frivolously essential, economically useless and totally without redeeming social significance. One should not probe for deeper meanings." — Allen Steck, 1967.

JohnL

 

[Pete_Hickey]

The whole concept of right reasons or wrong reasons to hike conjures up a position of elitism

Is elitism wrong?

ATVers and snowmobilers frequently claim that hikers are elitist.

Is it wrong to beleive in something and stand up for it?

Several have used the word religion, so let me add a different twist to this.

Is there a wrong reason to prey to God? Surely praying is good, right?

What if you are praying for strength to prey upon kill your enemies? Or praying to amass ungodly wealth?

There are many religious people that may think you are wrong because you ____________ (fill in the blank). They say I'm wrong, because I ... (I ain't telling you what I do) Are they wrong? Are they elitist? Maybe.

So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

 

[VFTTop'r]

Is elitism wrong?

ATVers and snowmobilers frequently claim that hikers are elitist.

Is it wrong to beleive in something and stand up for it?

Several have used the word religion, so let me add a different twist to this.

Is there a wrong reason to prey to God? Surely praying is good, right?

What if you are praying for strength to prey upon kill your enemies? Or praying to amass ungodly wealth?

There are many religious people that may think you are wrong because you ____________ (fill in the blank). They say I'm wrong, because I ... (I ain't telling you what I do) Are they wrong? Are they elitist? Maybe.

So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

Speaking of religion, Jesus said "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through me." in John 14:6.

Does this make Him an elitist?

"Is it wrong to believe in something and stand up for it?"

What if what you believe in is wrong? Is it wrong to stand up for something that is wrong? Say one believes that 1+1= 6 should they stand up for that?

Ahh, the questions one must face living in pluralistic culture.

 

[sli74]

WOW !!! If I had this much time, I would go hiking and for all the wrong reasons

sli74

 

[giggy]

Speaking of religion, Jesus said "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through me." in John 14:6.

Does this make Him an elitist?

an elitist? nah - A whackjob maybe no one come thru the father but thru me? - what the heck does that mean - guess I shouldn't have blown off sunday school to make out with girls in the woods.

 

[Jasonst]

So people who think the mountains are religious thing, and beleive that respect should be shown to them...well it's the same kind of thing for me.

I have no problem respecting the beliefs / feelings of others, but that type of "religion" is the only type that seems to be tollerated on this site. I believe this site is for information and sharing of hiking related ideas and have little patience when it is allowed to stray off course.

 

[VFTTop'r]

an elitist? nah - A whackjob maybe no one come thru the father but thru me? - what the heck does that mean - guess I shouldn't have blown off sunday school to make out with girls in the woods.

"what the heck does that mean"
Well since you asked...

Jesus was talking to His disciples and said:

1 "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
4 "And you know the way where I am going." 5 Thomas said to Him, "Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?" 6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me"

John 14

Short answer: Heaven/eternal life

 

[JohnL]

Did you know that the fastest non-flying bird is the Off-Topic Grouse? Seriously, though.........And back to our regularly scheduled On Topic Subject.

Elitism: The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

In my statement, I alluded to the concept of elitism strictly in regards to the principle subject of this thread: right and wrong reasons for hiking. Not religion. Not religious beliefs. Not snowmobilers vs hikers. Not believers standing up for their rights. Not disrespect for others.

My point, which apparently was missed, is that everyone has their own reasons for hiking. Let me expound. Those reasons are right for them, not necessarily for everyone. Those reasons are neither right nor wrong. They are strictly their own reasons for doing this activity in which we all have a common interest. I completely support anyone’s reasons (my caveat still stands ) for hiking, even though they may not be the same reasons that I hike.

Here’s my point about elitism in this context: I do not subscribe to the concept or belief that any person or group of persons deserve special consideration or treatment because of their differing reasons for hiking. One reason should not elevate them to a different status nor put them into a “more right” category of hiker. If you believe they do, I support your right to believe it. Then we’ll agree to disagree and get back on the trail.

JohnL

 

[C.Tracy]

Amen Brother

 

[giggy]

I guess jesus never took a business writing class - that quote is not short, distinct, nor too the point

I hike for the right reasons - becuase I love it