Climber Who Left Partner Cited for Disorderly Conduct

[John H Swanson]

I think it's odd that you have no clue when you were there....

Me too. unless say you go to Glacier every year

 

[Billy]

...In regards to knowing exactly when I was there 10 years ago. I can't remember where I hiked 10 weeks ago, and you want me to produce a date from 10 years ago...

Chip certainly doesn't need me to defend him. But in fairness to Chip, I should remind you that I was the one who originally asked you when this incident happened. So if you're gonna be mad at someone for not believing your story, be mad at me.

 

[erugs]

In 2001 we were hiking the Grinnell Glaicer Trail at Glacier National Park. The best way to do the hike is to take two boats to the TH. Or, if you are cheap, you can hike an extra miles to the TH and back. On the way back down from the glacier we ran into an 8 year girl who was hysterical. Seems her father was too cheap to pay for the boat rides and they hiked the lake shores to the TH. Part way across the second lake, her father decided that his daughter was going too slow. So, he abandon her. About 1/2 mile later the girl was surrounded by grizzly bears. For some odd reason they didn't bother her. Her father was also too cheap to buy her bear spray. We took her down to the boat and got her on the boat back to the hotel.
QUOTE]

From the telling, this is a story of parental negligence. If it is, indeed, just an incomplete "reader's digest" version of what happened, then your judgment does show with your word "abandoned." You also claim the father was "too cheap" for a boat ride and bear spray. Your friend, who you say is a teacher, should have gone further than speaking to the girl's mother, IMO.

On the other hand, you did say that it happened in 2001. You can probably rule out months that you weren't there and have narrowed it down, which people would have found helpful, for lack of a better word at this moment.

Sorry, but we here at VFTT sometimes get too caught up in the details.

I once saw a mother slap her child in the face in a store. I did nothing about it. Some years after that, I got brave enough to give the individual a "dirty look." More recently, I've been a lot more outspoken, enough to embarrass my best friend, and I'm always trying to think of the most kind ways to make statements that might make an important difference in many "walks" of my life.

 

[dug]

Going forward, I suggest we all post w/ applicable references, footnotes, pictures, travel vouchers, itineraries, statements (if applicable) of necessary law enforcement parties. This should eliminate all questions.

 

[Chip]

Sorry that you felt the need to judge and criticize me for a summarized story. .

Apology accepted . Just kidding.

In regards to not reporting it. When we got off the boat there was a Ranger led hike. Since my two friends were not in the best shape, we tagged onto the Ranger led hike. The Ranger was there when the story was told. No need to tell the Ranger the story all over again. Since the Griz pack wasn't aggressive or pursuing her and they are commonly seen there, there was no further action needed. Or at least, that is what the Ranger said. If you don't like this Ranger's actions, you can take it up with the NPS.

In regards to the child. There were 20 people there along with a Ranger. Not sure why you feel that I personally had to do something. One of the people in my group was a School Teacher. She took the girl under her wing and calmed her down. When we got back to the hotel, my friend, the school teacher, took the girl back to her mother and had a chat with her about her husband's actions.

This makes more sense. Thanks for the explanation.

Going forward, I suggest we all post w/ applicable references, footnotes, pictures, travel vouchers, itineraries, statements (if applicable) of necessary law enforcement parties. This should eliminate all questions.

Or just add a disclaimer like mine.

 

[Mikie]

But in fairness to Chip, I should remind you that I was the one who originally asked you when this incident happened. So if you're gonna be mad at someone for not believing your story, be mad at me.

I really don't care if you believe the story or not. But, if you are going to accuse someone of something, then you need credible evidence to back it up. When you can't back up your accusations, then it becomes malicious. I am 100% certain that you don't have any credible evidence. If you really wanted to verify the story, it could be done. And, if I knew the date, I would be more then happy to give it to you. It doesn't serve me well by not knowing it.

From the telling, this is a story of parental negligence.

The emphasis of the story was to show that some people will abandon their hiking partner no matter who they are, or what the circumstances. Yes, it was parenting at it's worst.

Your friend, who you say is a teacher, should have gone further than speaking to the girl's mother, IMO.

You were not there. Out of 20 people, we all did the same thing. What do you suggest should have been done?

 

[erugs]

You were not there. Out of 20 people, we all did the same thing. What do you suggest should have been done?

No, I wasn't. But as it was presented it seems as though somebody should have stood up to the plate and reported that a minor had been left behind without arranged supervision. That's how you presented it. It seems as though you were upset about it too. Sometimes people have regretted not being more proactive. What would I have done? Reported it. The child's mother is perhaps not in a healthy marriage. Perhaps the father has rage issues and the rest of the family isn't in a place where they can escape. I'm not saying this is the case. I'm saying perhaps. I'm not judging, just responding. I'm looking at various scenarios. What's so wrong with that?

Let's go back to the purpose of this thread and share stories, ask questions, learn from answers. Please don't take offense.

 

[Mikie]

What would I have done? Reported it.

The Rangers have some police powers. Not sure who I could report it to. If you have stayed at the Many Glacier Hotel anytime over the past two decades, then you would know that communications pretty much do not exist. There are phones in all the rooms, but calling from room-to-room is challenging. During all my visits at the hotel, I have never been able to call outside the hotel. It may be different this year because they have just finished rehabbing the hotel. I have no clue where there is a police station. Remember, this is Montana. If you could find someone to report it to, they would very skeptical if a Ranger refused to pursue it further.

Like others, I was not happy with this guy. Would have liked to have some choice words with him.

 

[DougPaul]

The Rangers have some police powers.

Actually Rangers have quite a bit of police power--they are Federal Officers and national parks are federal land.

My uncle was a ranger in Glacier NP.

Doug

 

[Brambor]

squam

We camped at squam lake a few months ago. I heard someone yelling help help repeatedly. I jumped into my kayak and paddled out until I saw a 2 canoes in a distance and occassional cry for help. as I paddled towards them I was trying to figure out what happened. i saw no capsize and no one in the water, I thought perhaps a small child or a pet fell in the water and failed to resurface and the canoes were looking around. when I finally got to them I asked what the emergency was. I saw one canoe with a father and child and another with wife and child. the father tells me that everything is ok, that `someone` is selfish and doesnt paddle hard enough. I paddled off somewhat miffed, realizing the father was deriding his child by putting him down and yelling help to embarrass him. basically a total *******.

 

[Dave Bear]

We camped at squam lake a few months ago. I heard someone yelling help help repeatedly. I jumped into my kayak and paddled out until I saw a 2 canoes in a distance and occassional cry for help. as I paddled towards them I was trying to figure out what happened. i saw no capsize and no one in the water, I thought perhaps a small child or a pet fell in the water and failed to resurface and the canoes were looking around. when I finally got to them I asked what the emergency was. I saw one canoe with a father and child and another with wife and child. the father tells me that everything is ok, that `someone` is selfish and doesnt paddle hard enough. I paddled off somewhat miffed, realizing the father was deriding his child by putting him down and yelling help to embarrass him. basically a total *******.

That would make me feel like showing someone how to "paddle hard enough!" Splinter his damn pride right in two since its already got a crack!

 

[RoySwkr]

Actually Rangers have quite a bit of police power--they are Federal Officers and national parks are federal land.

Note that "Ranger" informally covers a wide range of duties

Certainly some Park personnel are commissioned officers, carry guns, and have arrest powers

The person selling postcards in the gift shop or picking up trash might or might not be a Federal employee even if they wear a ranger-like uniform, and even if a Federal employee may not even be able to issue a parking ticket

The people who lead tours may fall into either category above

-rs (who once dated a seasonal ranger who worked in numerous parks and whose authority varied with the job)

 

[Craig]

Let's go back to the purpose of this thread and share stories, ask questions, learn from answers.

Geez, given this skeptical mob, I don't hardly dare to tell another story...

But what the heck, this is a somewhat different twist on this theme.

This spring I was in Washington and Oregon doing some climbing and decided to trek down to Yosemite for a visit. The draw for me was to climb Half Dome without the cables with snow on the ground. Without the cables there was no permit required so I just showed up, parked my car and hit the trail. I didn't have a map but I figured with 100+ people a day climbing the half dome (in season) the trail would probably be a superhighway and following it wouldn't be a problem. I think the hike is like 20 miles round trip and 4K elevation, but I could be off a bit.

The first half of the hike was a wide, well maintained trail, free of snow. After the flats above the waterfall, probably 2/3 up the trail, I hit snow line and started to follow fresh tracks. Not having seen another person all day it was obvious someone else was heading to half dome today. Another ½ hour of hiking I was in the woods postholing through snow following old and new tracks. I suddenly noticed movement about 15' off the trail. When I looked in that direction I notice a young women about 15' off the trail kind of wondering aimlessly. The first person I had seen in a few hours I thought perhaps she was looking for a good spot to pee, so I try to nonchalantly keep moving up the trail when she spoke:

Girl: (in a sheepish voice) Excuse me? Do you know where the trail is?

Me: (thinking OMG, WTF) Ummm...I'm standing on it.

Girl: (with a sense of relief in her voice) Oh, great, thanks.

She immediately walked over to me and stood behind me on the trail. Her emaciated figure was accentuated through her new softshell pant, new softshell jacket and the new backpack was as flat as a board indicating a somewhat lack of preparedness.

Girl: (with a pitifull look on her face) Do you mind if I draft you walking up the trail. You seem to have a good pace and your pacing would be helpful. I don't want to wreck you wilderness experience if you'd rather be alone.

Me: (trying to quickly run through a cost/benefit analysis before answering) No I don't mine. (thinking, I'll be able to leave her in the dust shortly)

Me: Ready?

Girl: OK

As I lead up the trail at a moderate pace we make small talk by exchanging bio's. She's from Montana, has flown to Frisco to visit some friends and decided to take a bus to Yose and hike half dome. She's done a couple of backpacks with friends but that’s about it.
I, on the other hand, have no idea what conditions I may encounter but have packed 2 ice tools,crampons, harness, 2 landyards and I'm ready for a solo snow covered half dome.

After about 15 minutes of hiking with her I figured I'd stop for a snack and a drink and hopefully she might open her pack so I could get an idea of what she had.

Me: Well I haven't had anything to eat or drink since the TH. I'm going to stop for a snack.

Girl: OK

While I'm dropping my pack she is just standing there.

Me: You want a snack?

Girl: Thanks, I don't have any food or water.

Me: (thinking OK, I need to get rid of this girl) Here have a pop-tart and water.

Girl: Thanks

After about 10 minutes

Me: Ready

Girl: Yup

I take the lead up the trail, crank my moderate pace up a notch or two. She tries to keep up and does a pretty good job until the terrain gets a bit steeper. Now the snow is deeper, the postholing is more difficult, and I'm pouring it on. Shortly thereafter I leave her skinny ass in the dust.
Happy in the knowledge that I have fed and water her, and she will probably turn around and head down, I continue on my merry way to the sub-dome.

The sub-dome is a large open bump at the base of half dome. As I stood on the sub-dome I could see boot tracks heading up the side of half dome. Great, it's do-able I thought. Time to take a break, eat, drink and get geared up.

About 10 minutes later I hear: Wow that was hard getting up hear.

Girl: (breathing heavy and looking beat) So Craig, what's our exit strategy?

Me: (shell shocked and feeling defeated) Exit strategy? My exit strategy is to go down the same trail I came up. But first I'm going to climb that big bump you see over there. I don't know how long it will take, maybe an hour up and an hour down as a guess. If you want to wait here for me to return, you're welcome to hike down with me.

Girl: (looking completely devastated and scared) You're really going to climb that?

Me: (thinking WTF do I do now) Yup!

With that answer she slumped down into the snow and puts her head into her hands.

(to be continued)

What would you have done?

 

[DougPaul]

Note that "Ranger" informally covers a wide range of duties

Certainly some Park personnel are commissioned officers, carry guns, and have arrest powers

Yes Rangers have a variety of qualifications, rankings and duties. And they can always call an enforcement ranger if necessary...

The person selling postcards in the gift shop or picking up trash might or might not be a Federal employee even if they wear a ranger-like uniform, and even if a Federal employee may not even be able to issue a parking ticket

These duties (shop and trash) do not require that one be a ranger.

The people who lead tours may fall into either category above

This may depend on what you mean by tour. Certainly one need not be a ranger to lead a commercial tour. IIRC all park-organized hikes and programs that I have been on were led by a ranger in uniform. (However, I didn't ask them for their ratings...)

-rs (who once dated a seasonal ranger who worked in numerous parks and whose authority varied with the job)

My uncle was a "full-time ranger with 10 months of leave"... (He was a school teacher when "on leave".) He liked the wilder stations in the NW section of GNP where he was often the only official around.

Being a ranger is hard work... There are a number of books on the topic which may interest some. For instance:
* "Park Ranger" and "Park Ranger Sequel" by Nancy Eileen Muleandy-Mecham, Vishnu Temple Press, 2004 and 2008.
* "Ranger Confidential, Living, Working, and Dying in the National Parks" by Andrea Lankford, Falcon Guides, 1010.

Doug

 

[Maddy]

...And don't forget
Hey Ranger 1 and Hey Ranger 2 authored by Ranger Jim Burnett.

I read the first one and it was definitely good for a laugh. I don't think the second one was as funny.
You can imagine being a ranger and hearing someone calling "HEY RANGER". You know that what follows will most likely not make your day. Yes...someone's adventure has taken a turn for the worse and they desperately need you to bail them out. Some of the situations they get themselves into will surely make you laugh.

 

[Raven]

Being a ranger is hard work... There are a number of books on the topic which may interest some. For instance:
* "Park Ranger" and "Park Ranger Sequel" by Nancy Eileen Muleandy-Mecham, Vishnu Temple Press, 2004 and 2008.
* "Ranger Confidential, Living, Working, and Dying in the National Parks" by Andrea Lankford, Falcon Guides, 1010.

Doug

Desert Solitaire Ed Abbey

 

[Mikie]

My uncle was a "full-time ranger with 10 months of leave"... (He was a school teacher when "on leave".) He liked the wilder stations in the NW section of GNP where he was often the only official around.

The Polebridge Ranger Station would be my choice too. The North Fork region is exceptionally beautiful and very wild. But, rescues can be quite challenging. The most notable was the "rescue" of Richard Layne this Spring.

 

[Chip]

With that answer she slumped down into the snow and puts her head into her hands.

(to be continued)

What would you have done?

Tough one. If it was local I'd definately take her back down. If I'm traveling I'd be more tempted to keep moving without her, but I doubt I'd enjoy the climb. Karma would make me trip. Karma also put you in that spot, maybe to save her life. I guess I'd take her back down there too. I've had several small incidents in my life occur that I know would have had bad outcomes if I wasn't there and willing to speak up or change my initial plan.

 

[DougPaul]

The Polebridge Ranger Station would be my choice too.

I know he was stationed at Kintla, Bowman, Waterton, and Two Medicine Lakes because I recall visiting him there. He may also have been stationed elsewhere--he was a ranger for many years.

Doug

 

[RoySwkr]

(to be continued)

What would you have done?

I would probably have looked at the dome and felt like the girl, turning back immediately

In your place, I would probably have gone up after suggesting that instead of waiting she should start following the tracks down. Remember that she wasn't somebody I picked up in a bar and promised a good time, rather she had started off by herself apparently intending to do the hike alone. But I would wait for her walking out since I would feel guilty about telling her she could go with me - I should have acted macho earlier and told her NO since no girl could keep up with me (fortunately SF is too far away to throw a crampon at me