Cog looking at running snow cats to the summit

[peakbagger]

I guess the Obs will be getting some competition (info part way down into the article

https://www.berlindailysun.com/news...ilding-assessment-underway-atop-mt-washington

 

[egilbe]

New trail on the cog right of way for snowcats? I’m assuming its going from the auto road to the cog ROW since its only three miles? More tourists to muck up the summit.

 

[nartreb]

No way is the Cog going to deliver its customers to the Auto Road. The article says the new trail is along the existing right-of-way, so it must follow the Cog. The Cog itself is a bit less than three miles.

If they're serious about this, they're going to want to put in some kind of warming station on or near the summit. Hm, wasn't there some noise about a new hotel high on the Cog route?

 

[TJsName]

Maybe they'll generate enough poo to justify keeping the Sherman Adams bathrooms open?

 

[sierra]

Did I read correctly that this new "trail" is in the new White Mountain Guide book?

 

[JoshandBaron]

Did I read correctly that this new "trail" is in the new White Mountain Guide book?

Is NOT in the book.

 

[peakbagger]

I would speculate the new trail has been built for quite awhile and on top of the trench for the power cable laid up the cog.

The obs in addition to overnights also runs daytrips up via snowcat. The demand is quite high. I expect the Cog has decided to compete. I wouldn't be surprised if they bolt a ski rack on the back of the snowcat and make a bundle running folks up to ski tuckermans.

It very obvious that the Cogs now majority owner has decided to upset the "applecart" on the summit.

 

[TJsName]

I would speculate the new trail has been built for quite awhile and on top of the trench for the power cable laid up the cog.

The obs in addition to overnights also runs daytrips up via snowcat. The demand is quite high. I expect the Cog has decided to compete. I wouldn't be surprised if they bolt a ski rack on the back of the snowcat and make a bundle running folks up to ski tuckermans.

It very obvious that the Cogs now majority owner has decided to upset the "applecart" on the summit.

How would ski racks on a snow cat make it different than the ski train they tried to run with regards to the USFS issues?

 

[peakbagger]

I had just moved into the area when the ski trains were knocked back so I didnt get the details of the deal. I think there were threats made by parties on both sides but I dont think there was a final legal resolution. I believe the threat of regulation of coal emissions may have factored in, but ultimately I think the at the time new cog owners elected to pull back. Now that the cog has switched over to a weak biodiesel blend(contrary to popular belief they dont run straight biodiesel they run an 80% fossil diesel blend) the threat of shutting down the coal trains is far less of an issue. They are now really going for volume and the steam trains are mostly run in theoff hours to keep the rail fans happy as they can run far more diesel trains up and back then a steam train. Both the Cog and Autoroad run on private property and are not subject to special use permits, I expect that much as the FS wants to complain, they probably dont have a lot of control over what goes on in inholdings.

As has been apparent of late the Cog is going in an aggressive expansion phase and butting heads on occasion while the Auto road owners tends to be far less controversial.

 

[David Metsky]

I expect the Cog has decided to compete. I wouldn't be surprised if they bolt a ski rack on the back of the snowcat and make a bundle running folks up to ski tuckermans.

Been tried and shot down by the FS when the Cog wanted to run ski trains. They were willing to enforce the idea that you can only ski back down the Cog tracks if you go up via Cog. I don't think going up in a cat is going to change that. It may impact the folks who use the skin track alongside the cog to access high terrain and descent the same way. The cats may either mess up the snow, or chop up the crust to make things more skiable. Time will tell.

 

[peakbagger]

I hear what you are saying Dave but not knowing the basis on how the ski trains were shot down or could be by the FS, I think it could come back. I dont see any parallel in the WMNF where the FS can prohibit a private entity from providing access to what is an other wise legal activity from privately owned land. When the Bretton Woods Ski area (partially owned by the current cog owner) did run snow cats runs up the cog for skiers, they only maintained snow on their owned land but there was no prohibition on accessing FS land.

 

[David Metsky]

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1988/03/10/Little-train-that-cant-says-it-will/4966573973200/

The article doesn't specify the methods, but the FS were pretty clear that they would have people up there to intercept anyone who came up on the train (or via chopper) and attempted to ski over to Tuckerman Ravine. The snow cats should have fallen under the same ruling.

 

[skiguy]

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1988/03/10/Little-train-that-cant-says-it-will/4966573973200/

The article doesn't specify the methods, but the FS were pretty clear that they would have people up there to intercept anyone who came up on the train (or via chopper) and attempted to ski over to Tuckerman Ravine. The snow cats should have fallen under the same ruling.

If I remember correctly I believe some sort of case was also made for Tresspassing from privately owned land onto Federal land via unlicensed/unpermitted methodology.

 

[peakbagger]

http://nhpr.org/post/group-cog-railways-new-mt-washington-trail-illegal#stream/0

Looks like things may be heating up.

Protectmtwashington.org is looking for anyone that has photos of the construction of the road. Even if the work is done on private property there are stormwater regulations that apply especially when it impacts adjacent properties.

I would be curious if the recent significant washouts that closed the cog operations early may have been made worse by this new road?

 

[ChrisB]

http://nhpr.org/post/group-cog-railways-new-mt-washington-trail-illegal#stream/0

Looks like things may be heating up.

If the Cog is treated like a real "railroad," they will have a lot of clout. Within their right of way they might be able to actually do pretty much what they want.

Not sure how wide the right of way is, but might they be able to cat groom it into corduroy and establish a marked "piste" from the summit to the base station? They already have the lower half of such a piste in place and operational.

Biggest vert in the East at 3,500 feet!!

Vol ski patrol anyone??

cb

 

[skiguy]

It’s all cooling down.

 

[kltilton]

The right-of-way is 99 ft. wide. Subtract about 8-10 for the track, then divide by 2. This leaves about 45 ft. on each side. An FIS spec nordic trail is 9 meters = 29.5 ft. Seems wide enough to groom, unfortunately.

 

[peakbagger]

A bit more info

http://indepthnh.org/2017/11/29/coo...-of-unpermitted-cog-road-up-mount-washington/

 

[skiguy]

A bit more info

http://indepthnh.org/2017/11/29/coo...-of-unpermitted-cog-road-up-mount-washington/

LMAO...interesting how the picture in this article actually shows hikers on the so called road.

 

[Tom_Murphy]

Are the Cog Train and the Auto Road a zero sum game? Is the proposed Cog hotel a threat to the Glen House Hotel occupancy rate? The two ownership groups certainly seem to behave that way at those Summit meetings.

Can I legally take the Cog Train or Auto Road to the summit in the summer and hike back down the Tuckerman Ravine trail? Or is that only allowed by the USFS's leave? Hard to understand how that is different than using either method in the winter to ski down Tucks?

The concern that either company providing this winter service to the summit would enable less experienced skiers to attempt to ski Tucks is probably a valid concern (and an interesting parallel to cell phones, GPSs, SPOTs, and PLBs allowing hikers to get themselves in trouble) but I don't understand how it can be legally disallowed if a very similar activity is allowed in the summer.