Cold weather sleeping bag question

[Jay H]

Thanks Warren, Seema. I got my Iroquios from backcountrystore.com this past March or so, Can't complain cause it's a 5'6" bag that I paid $160 for ($225 sticker price). I bought it for bike touring and it was great when I biked to Maine with it, but I know if I want to do more winter trips, I need a bit colder rated bag. I am lucky in that I am small (5'5") and I literally sleep like a mummy so I buy tiny bags. I don't know if a roamer would be comfortable in my Iroquios, it can be a tight fit but that is what makes it a bit warmer than what it's rated for.


Jay

 

[jfb]

Something I've learned the expensive way about winter bags is that although a narrow mummy bag may be warmer for the weight than a wider mummy, I was unable to dress/undress inside a narrow mummy bag. Also, when I slept on my side and bent my knees, the shell fabric would compress the down behind my back just enough that my back would get cold. It wasn't something that I could feel right away after rolling over, but only after falling back to sleep and waking up cold.

While searching for a new bag, I noticed how they have different shoulder, hip and foot widths. I opted for a bag with a slightly wider shoulder and hip width and it makes a big difference. I can now also wear additional clothing inside the bag if it gets colder than the bag's rating (which I haven't tested yet).

As far as cost goes, I was hesitant to spend the money for a top-of-the-line bag until I saw my latest car insurance bill. I decided that a good bag was a form of life insurance and was worth the price. The bags I considered were made by Western Mountaineering, Marmot, Feathered Friends and Integral Designs.

 

[coldfeet]

maybe i won't buy

Even at 1/2 price the bag costs almost $350... For the amount of time i think i'll get to go out this winter I'm better off with other equipment. I can't give up on the 0 bag, i can get a down 40 to add to the bag for $150, then i can use that as a light summer bag. I would like a lighter pack also. I can always rent a bag for a short trip... it's hard not to buy because of the discount but i think i should.. thx for info.. let's end this question...have a nice day.. Jeanne is here in NYC today.. little rain..

 

[Warren]

Be careful when doubling bags and the inner is a down bag, the two bags if the fit is tight can compress resulting in a colder bag. A synth. inner that's sized to fit the outer is my preference for this.

 

[coldfeet]

sounds like if i'm gonna get knee deep into winter camping then i should just but 1 really warm winter bag,,now i'm reading about the winter gathering.

 

[ajtiv]

Get a Feathered Friends down bag; costly but worth it
I have a Western Mountaineering bag Apache 20 deg. F and it is good, but FF seems to be a little more customer friendly.
This summer I visited a relative in Seattle and took the opportunity to visit FF's store across from REI flagship talk about gear junkie heaven.

Anyway the sales people were very helpful asked more questions than I could have thought to ask them and let me try 6 different bags and sizes before I picked one out. they also can customize them to what is best for you, size, draft collar, (permanent or removable), overstuff, fabrics, and colors. Very well made not alot of bells and whistles like Marmot TNF but better quality IMHO.

It does take 2-5 weeks to make so plan ahead. It has not been cold enough to try but I can't wait.

WM and FF are the two USA manufacturers that stand head and shoulders apart on quality and craftsmanship

PS I have half of the Catskill 35 done in winter so maybe I will see you up there.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Three of the six on the VFTT/High Pointers Denali expedition had NF Dark Star -40 bags this past June, and I plan to have one when I go back. My down bag got damp on the Kahiltna Glacier, but I will never know whether I would have been able to dry it out, as I bailed out of the expedition early. These bags are usually found on sale in Freeport, Maine, a couple times each year around holidays ($199 on sale, I believe).

 

[coldfeet]

Hey Dr. D,

If possible could u find out from those members with the dark star how they rated their bags? I'm doing some of my own research and the down bags of the big 4, Western M, Feathered F, Marmot, ID average between $670-$810.. I can get any NF at 1/2 price because my wife is employee of vf.. no rush yet, but my o F NF goliath is bulky and the dark star is even bigger... thx..David

 

[jfb]

The Mountain Equipment Co-op also carries what seems to be good bags at more reasonable prices. Their prices are in Canadian $$. Thor

 

[dave.m]

I think for New England, the decision between down or synthetic for winter bags really depends on a person's projected trip duration.

If 1-2 night trips are the norm, down is definitely the least expensive way to go. I've never gotten more than 3 seasons of use out the synthetic bags I've owned.

If multi-day trips are the norm, synth bags deal with moisture build up better. You just need to be able to shoulder the weight, bulk and cost.

While I'm personally interested to hear about what bags worked on Denali and what didn't, I would use caution when trying to extrapolate from expedition use to one's personal use-case scenario.

Warm down bags need not break your bank. I think the EMS, LL Bean and low-end TNF bags offer the most value/dollar. Top end bags are better but you spend dollars to shed ounces. Law of diminishing returns applies.

 

[Ken999]

Coldfeet- This would make a good winter backpacking bag.

http://www.wiggys.com/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=59

 

[coldfeet]

Thx

You guys are good,, thx,, let's put an end to this question, there are so many variables.. if i understand it right synthetic is best for long term camping, which is probably longer than 5 days. I think my trips will be 3 days or less in the cold so down would not get to much moisture... am i sounding like a real camper? I'm sure whatever bag I buy I will always wonder about another, i read reviews but i couldn't find comparisons..99.9% sure i'll pick up a Northface because of employee discount... also their hip size is bigger than most other bags so i can eat a lot during my trips and use that "p" bottle yuk!. Gotta read about icons and paste picture, but always to busy... David

 

[jfb]

I looked at the North Face bags on their website. They do look like good bags and at 1/2 price, would be a great deal. I'd go with the -20 degree bag because it weighs one pound less, stuffs into a smaller space and would be warm enough for most winter nights in the Northeast. If the temp. gets lower than -20, the bag is roomy enough to wear extra clothes inside.

 

[paul ron]

Moisture build up is the real problem

The real problem you should worry about in winter is moisture build up in the insulation, not getting wet from inclement weather. Are you going to be out for a few nights or just weekend trips?

This is the potential problem and considerations for a down bag...
On extended trips you tend to accumulate moisture in down. Down being a natural fiber tends to absorb it and hold it, whereas synthetic fibers breath better and will let the moisture pass faster through the fibers and not hold it at all, even damp you'll still be able to benefit from the insulation. A 4LB down bag can weigh as mush as 8LBs after camping out for a week even after drying em out on a dry line in the sun. The down gets matted from being damp and never fluffs up properly, as a result you'll feel very cold. There are methods of keeping the moisture from building up in the insulation.

Vapor barriers are the answer to using down for extended trips. Many of the newer more expensive bags have em built in and even have goretex liners. You pay a premium for this though. A vapor barrier is nothing more than a big bag to hold the moisture close to your body where it can stay warm, not allowing the moisture to move into your insulation at all. Your clothes will be very damp i the morning but you slept in a toaster all night.

Another trick is to sleep in your rain suit. It does the same thing as a vapor liner at 1/10th the cost besides you already have rain gear.

On short weekend trips it doesn't matter. You'll never notice the moisture build up and can really appreciate the light weight and compressibility of Down. My zero bag is 3.2LBs, I have the X-long Campmor down since it is the only one large enough for me. Compressed in a Sluberjack compression bag, It fits in my pack too.

 

[Ken999]

Coldfeet- I would be careful about the standard long size NF bags. If you are big enough to warrant a Goliath, the other NF bags might be too tight on you. Compressing the insulation will make for a cold nights sleep, and like others have noted, you might want to layer in the bag for extra warmth.

The long wide version of the Wiggys bag I linked for you would be a 66" girth and 94" length, and comes with a lifetime guarantee agains loss of loft or zipper failure. He uses a #10 ykk zipper.

 

[coldfeet]

Thx Ken999,

I haven't bought yet and i'm still skeptical about spending the $, i'm going to have to make a hard decision soon. I do recall their extreme bags to be tight and all i was wearing was a tee shirt..

 

[Ken999]

Cf- a quick check of the spec's posted on Cabelas shows the "new" NF Darkstar long at a 36" wide and 90" long. I have one of these long models that is three years old, but it is only 31" or 32" wide and 88" long, so I am pretty much at the mercy of the bag and can only add a layer or two of long underwear...no jacket or vest.

My point being is this, over the last three years ,the NF has changed the Darkstar to almost indentical spec's of that of a compareably rated Wiggy's...bigger, roomier, heavier, #8 zipper...When I was in your predicament 3 years ago, trying to decide what to buy, I should have bought the Wiggy's with the lifetime gaurantee and #10 zip... Hindsight is 20/20...

 

[coldfeet]

Excuse me but i don't understand about the width measurement? Do you multiply it by 2? I just understand the girth #'s...thx

 

[TomEske]

David (Coldfeet),
You've already gotten the usual excellent suggestions from the group. You are trying to make a decision I can see. Here are a few thoughts that might help:
1) You've already mentioned that you are a 'roamer' (so am I), but are you a cold sleeper or a warm sleeper? I'm a cold sleeper, and this is a curse I have not yet overcome in my 30+ years on the trails. If you're a cold sleeper, You need comfort and warmth and may need that synthetic bag.
2) Will that extra space and weight of the synthetic bag cause you extra work and worry, or can you carry it without a thought or care?
For what it's worth, I am a roamer, and have gotten used to the tight mummy down bag I use most of the time. The bag goes with me when I raom and that works for me (but FORGET about using a "P" bottle). I just can't sleep on my stomach. I rarely have a good nights sleep, the first night out, it takes me a few days to get in the groove, so as long as I'm warm, that is as good as it gets and I am satisfied just getting some 'rest' and not sleep.
I've got a 2 lb. down bag I have been using for 30 years now and it suits me well, but I use a 6 lb down bag (arctic military) that I use for the deep of winter. The 2 lb. bag did me well for 12 days in the New Mexico Rockies this summer. I add a layer or two of sleep clothes to make it warmer in the cooler months.
There are lots of options. Pick something you can adjust. To be honest, I own about 8 bags, and they all have a time they get used, but for backpacking, my list is down to just 3.
The pad is almost as important as the bag, get the best you can afford. Down is useless when compressed under your bodyweight.
Happy Hiking,
Tom

 

[mediclimber]

I used to use TNF bags but have recentley converted to zmountain Hardwear Demension series bags. The third demension is good to -15 and seems to work well for anything in the Daks and the Whites. It has a built in expander as do all the Demension series. They seem to sleep warmer that TNF bags of similar raitings.