Cold weather sleeping bag

[Rick]

Rick -

Can I go shopping with you sometime?

MMMM .... I lost that 5 years ago when I left (for a second time....)

I'm suspicious of any sub-zero rated bag that uses less than 800 to 900 fill down. I'm not saying it isn't possible, it just hasn't been my experience.

Ditto on DP, it balances out, the lower fill weights simply don't provide the volume that the higher fills do, so you need more of it. My -25 bag is 550 fill and it is 48 oz of down. If it were 800-850 fill, it would probably only take about 32-36 oz of down. But it has always been my understanding that a measure of dead air is the same regardless of what is keeping it as a measure of dead air.
I would imagine dry leaves or crumpled up newspaper could work nearly as well, with the only issue being that at a certain point, the weight of the fill would start comressing against itself and you would start to lose your volume of dead air).

 

[Nadine]

Thanks Neil!

Do they make a colder rated bag? If my math is accurate then minus 20C is about minus 4F. I checked the web site and didn't see anything else off hand in the hybrid catagory.

Thanks,
Nadine

 

[hikingfish]

Thanks Neil!

Do they make a colder rated bag? If my math is accurate then minus 20C is about minus 4F. I checked the web site and didn't see anything else off hand in the hybrid catagory.

Thanks,
Nadine

Nadine, the only other bag they make that has a temp rating lower than the hybrid is the Thor (-30C), but it's much more expensive, although it's in canadian dollars (385$ CDN).

Fish

 

[Nadine]

Egads! you were reading my mind Hikingfish

So minus 30C is about minus 22F, the small weighs 1.72 kg or 3.8 lbs and 25 cm of loft is about 10 inches. I'm not sure how to convert the stuff size of 19.11 liters into stuff sack centimeters though, any ideas?

Have you seen one of these, or know someone who has slept in one?? It sounds like it's engineered more for decreasing condensation and increasing breathability, which has advantages. And it's within my budget.

Uhhhhh, you're not 165 cm tall by chance

On the other hand: EMS is not mfg the minus 20 down regular length bag right now. I guess the company they had putting them together has corporate issues. They do plan on making a minus 20 down bag in the regular length, but they're not sure how soon it will be.

TNF outlet in Freeport only has bags rated down to zero right now. They're unsure if/when colder bags will come in. They never know what's is in the upcoming shipment.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I was just browsing LL Beans website and saw the Katahdin -20 sleeping bag; it seems like a bargain at $250 though a tad heavy at almost 6 pounds. But the price is right... it's all about trade offs. LL Bean has a great reputation of standing by their products; does anyone have any opinions on this to share with Nadine?

I can tell you they do stand by their products, probably more than they should.

All of the bags I listed were LL Bean bags (the Women's are the Summit series), and I have been happy with them and their ratings. I got my 0° bag from them at the Outlet store because they changed colors for the new season, so it was really cheap.

A friend is starting there in a few weeks...

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I'm not sure how to convert the stuff size of 19.11 liters into stuff sack centimeters though, any ideas?

??? 1 liter = 1000 CCs. You know that... 19.11 liters roughly 5 gallons. Think of a 5 gallon carboy.

And the $CDN is nowhere near as good (for you) as it was a couple years ago. I'll second MEC's bags as being good quality/functionality at a good price.

 

[Nadine]

??? 1 liter = 1000 CCs. You know that... 19.11 liters roughly 5 gallons. Think of a 5 gallon carboy.

And the $CDN is nowhere near as good (for you) as it was a couple years ago. I'll second MEC's bags as being good quality/functionality at a good price.

I love a good beer corelation Was it Maudite??

Yeah, I thought of that conversion in my head yesterday, but what I really want is how much the bag compresses. I'm guessing it would stuff into something like 10X18 inches. My concern lies in the size of my winter backpack. I have a 4000 cubic inch pack, and I need to make sure I can haul all my gear in the backback. My plus 20 bag takes up over a third of the pack when loaded, leaving me not enough room for clothing, stove, fuel, food etc.
I'm headed to Baxter in december, and historically there's not enough snow down in the valley to pull a pulk sled that early in the year. I need to be able to carry all my gear in the pack. I'd hate to buy a new sleeping bag and then end up having to buy a new pack too.

I'm using the red pack that I used when we hauled all that beer in to Baxter

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I'm guessing it would stuff into something like 10X18 inches.

Just measured my 19 liter carboy of fermenting pumpkin ale. Yep. That's aboutthe size.

FWIW, in my experience, MEC is conservative in its stufed sizes, and you can probably squich it smaler.

My concern lies in the size of my winter backpack. I have a 4000 cubic inch pack, and I need to make sure I can haul all my gear in the backback. .....I'm using the red pack that I used when we hauled all that beer in to Baxter

Well, to me, the choice is obvious 5 gallons of beer vs a sleeping bag?

You can always lash things to the outside, if it's just a hike in to a base camp.

 

[Nadine]

Well, to me, the choice is obvious 5 gallons of beer vs a sleeping bag?

If I had 5 gallons of Maudite I wouldn't care if I had a sleeping bag


Thanks Pete.
Nadine

 

[dave.m]

Nadine,

I think you are on track looking at an EMS down bag. IMO, this is pretty much the sweet spot for value. Much, much better than REI in general, imo.

I have a pertex shell on my TNF winter bag. I really like that a lot. Very breathable and somewhat water resistant.

Two links from my pages you might be interested in:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/SleepingBags.txt
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt

Say hey to Rob for me.

-Dave

 

[dave.m]

I'm suspicious of any sub-zero rated bag that uses less than 800 to 900 fill down. I'm not saying it isn't possible, it just hasn't been my experience.

This is a matter of age. 20 years ago, 550 down was the standard. I frankly have a hard time believing the marketing hype around super high quality down. IMO, these "metrics" have a tendancy to creep ever upward regardless of truth or merit, sort of like the size of compact pick ups (bigger) and bike weights (downward).

IMO, all you are paying for is lower weight. Warmth is almost entirely a function of loft. With lower fill down, you just use more down. Thickness is a better metric.

 

[Chip]

This is a matter of age. 20 years ago, 550 down was the standard... IMO, these "metrics" have a tendancy to creep ever upward regardless of truth or merit...

I guess that's part of what I'm saying. I think 550 down 20 or 30 years ago was better than it is now. I still use (3 1/2 season) a down bag my dad bought for me 35 years ago for $50 at Caldor. I was the only kid in my troop with a down bag then. Now I also have a 550 fill (32oz of fill, 3.9 lbs carry weight) mummy that is rated 0 that I wouldn't take out below 20 above. I also have a Valandre bag rated -40 that is 40oz of 850 fill (Goose 95/5; 850 cuin +) and is also 3.9 lbs carry weight, which I believe the rating on.

So I guess my point is; without personal experience with the actual bag, you increase the odds of buying a real rating with higher quality down these days, especially if weight is a concern.
If that helps.

 

[Nadine]

Nadine,

I think you are on track looking at an EMS down bag. IMO, this is pretty much the sweet spot for value. Much, much better than REI in general, imo.

Two links from my pages you might be interested in:
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/SleepingBags.txt
http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt

Say hey to Rob for me.

Hi Dave!

My first choice is going to be the EMS minus 20F bag if I can find a regular size one during the upcoming sale on the 21st. I've heard too many bad comments on REI bags to consider purchasing one from them.

If I can't score an EMS bag, then I'll order the minus 30C bag from MEC.

I'm headed over to your web page shortly

Will pass on your greetings to Rob

 

[jfb]

I'm guessing it would stuff into something like 10X18 inches.

When I bought my latest winter bag, I found that I could barely fit it into the supplied stuff sack. After trying every large stuff sack I owned, I ended up buying a Granite Gear compressible stuff sack. I found that the stuff sack had to have a large enough diameter to get the bag inside, then the straps allowed me to compress it to a good size that fit in the sleeping bag compartment of my pack.

x-large

 

[DougPaul]

My first choice is going to be the EMS minus 20F bag if I can find a regular size one during the upcoming sale on the 21st. I've heard too many bad comments on REI bags to consider purchasing one from them.

I agree that the EMS -20F bag (9 in loft) is a reasonable choice (I have one).

I also have the REI Sub Kilo +20F (5 in loft) and REI Kilo Plus 0F (6 in loft) bags (both bought on sale, of course). They seem to me to be reasonable bags--I've found no problems in their construction. Both are cut somewhat on the slim side (ok for me--I'm skinny) and neither has a draft collar. I haven't tested either to its temp limit, but the lofts (my measurements) are fairly reasonable for their ratings. Maybe I'd be a little chilly if I use the bags at their ratings, but if I think conditions will get close to a bag's rating, I just bring a warmer bag.

The REI Kilo Expedition -20F appears to be a different design from the two other Kilo series bags. Draft collar, double zipper, and more girth. It might be a reasonable option, but I would want to look at one before committing to it--measure the loft etc. (FWIW, I do this for any bag that I am considering.) If you can't get to a store, REI's return policy allows you to look at it at home and return it if you don't like it.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

I'm guessing it would stuff into something like 10X18 inches.

10x18 in is 1414 cu-in or 23.2 liters. (1 liter = 61 cu-in)

When I bought my latest winter bag, I found that I could barely fit it into the supplied stuff sack. After trying every large stuff sack I owned, I ended up buying a Granite Gear compressible stuff sack. I found that the stuff sack had to have a large enough diameter to get the bag inside, then the straps allowed me to compress it to a good size that fit in the sleeping bag compartment of my pack.

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I don't like to use compression stuff sacks on my down gear.

BTW, if you line the stuff sack with a plastic bag, the sleeping bag will be easier to stuff (and be water-proofed too). The sleeping bag shell fabric slides more easily against the plastic. (Might not be an issue with a sil-nylon stuff sack.)

Doug

 

[Orphic Seth]

I was just browsing LL Beans website and saw the Katahdin -20 sleeping bag; it seems like a bargain at $250 though a tad heavy at almost 6 pounds. But the price is right... it's all about trade offs. LL Bean has a great reputation of standing by their products; does anyone have any opinions on this to share with Nadine?

Might be a little late for me to chime in, but I have the Katahdin +20 (about 3, maybe 4 years old now) and I am so happy with it, that I'm seriously considering the -20 Katahdin. The weight is a little weight-y, but I'll be sledding it in anyway, and the price and warranty are tough to beat.

 

[Nadine]

10x18 in is 1414 cu-in or 23.2 liters. (1 liter = 61 cu-in)

Thanks DougPaul.

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I don't like to use compression stuff sacks on my down gear.

What about short term use?? Like for an approach hike in/out of base camp?

BTW, if you line the stuff sack with a plastic bag, the sleeping bag will be easier to stuff (and be water-proofed too).

I learned to do this long ago in the girl scouts, now it's just habit. I've never had a wet sleeping bag

Nadine

 

[dave.m]

What about short term use?? Like for an approach hike in/out of base camp?

The garbage bag inside the stuff sack trick mentioned above works as a poor man's compression sack, imo. Just push hard and twist off the bag to vacum seal in the flavor.

I've not noticed any discernable loss of loft in any of our 3 down bags used this way. Body oil and dirt will have a worse impact on the down, I believe. That said, down *does* break down over years but if my old Snow Lion down parka was any indication, seams and nylon will give out before the down is flat.

Synth bags are another story. Every synth bag I've owned and everyone I've seen die in a few years.

 

[ajtiv]

FWIW
I have two REI down bags from my parents about thirty years old still 8-9 inches of loft and warm down to 20 F have not tried them lower
That is a pretty good life span.
This is why I bought a FF -30 F bag good down bags last forever.
Al