Cold weather sleeping bag

[jfb]

Maybe I'm over cautious, but I don't like to use compression stuff sacks on my down gear.

It's possible to use a compression stuff sack and compress the sleeping bag to a greater volume than the volume of the original stuff sack that came with the bag.

According to FF, the stuff size of my Peregrine bag is 9 x 17. Using a 10 in. diameter compression stuff sack, I could compress it to 14 inches long (16 works fine with my pack) and maintain the same compression ratio. The advantage of using a larger diameter stuff sack is that it's easier to stuff the bag into the sack.

 

[Lawn Sale]

I was just browsing LL Beans website and saw the Katahdin -20 sleeping bag; it seems like a bargain at $250 though a tad heavy at almost 6 pounds. But the price is right... it's all about trade offs. LL Bean has a great reputation of standing by their products; does anyone have any opinions on this to share with Nadine?

I just checked and my 0° is a Mt. Katahdin. I've been happy with it. The 15° is a 750 Down Expedition series, and I also like it, but have never used it when it's been really cold.

I also use a compression sack, mine is an OR, which is heavy but built like a tank. Just fluff up the sleeping bag when you pull it out and it'll be fine.

 

[MountainManKurt]

You might want to try Stevenson Warmlight out of Gilford, New Hampshire. But the price might be to high for you. They have a web site, check google for it.

 

[DougPaul]

You might want to try Stevenson Warmlight out of Gilford, New Hampshire. But the price might be to high for you. They have a web site, check google for it.

The Warmlite bags have built in vapor barriers. A uniqe bag+pad system.

http://www.warmlite.com/bags_In.htm

Doug

 

[Nadine]

DougPaul replied: The Warmlite bags have built in vapor barriers. A uniqe bag+pad system.

http://www.warmlite.com/bags_In.htm

Thanks Guys.

Interesting design. The fully adjustable hood has me curious. I'm a stomach/side sleeper, so anything to facilitate my comfort and warmth would be appreciated. Traditional bags tend to cater to those who sleep on their backs. The VBL is logical. Although I tend to dress minimally in my bag so overheating and sweating is rarely a problem. I'm sure it all adds up though.

The company seems very accomodating, willing to design and sew to your specifications. Looks like this could be the one bag that does it all.

Hmmmmm, didn't SD market a bag that has on/off layers for 3 season use?

nadine

 

[DougPaul]

Nadine,

I just went to REI today and while I was there, I checked out the Kilo Expedition -20F bag. This bag is different from the +20F and 0F members of the Kilo line, so I wouldn't extrapolate from them to this bag.

They had a long on hanging display. Took the bag down, tossed it on a table and did my usual measurements: 9.5-10in loft and 6in top/4in bottom loft. ~11in loft in the foot box. (The bag had been on a display hanger and therefore the loft numbers are .5-1in greater than unstuffing a bag, spreading it out and waiting a while). I'd expect an operational loft of ~9in--just about right for a -20F bag. (My EMS Mtn Light -20F measures 9in loft with a similar differential.)

The most obvious differences between the EMS and REI bags are:
* EMS single zipper with draft tube, REI double zipper
* EMS 4lb, REI 3lb 12oz, regular sizes
* EMS has a heavier feeling shell fabric

According to the labels, the EMS bag (reg) has 37oz of 725 in3/oz down, and the REI bag (long) has 39oz of down (700 in3/oz bottom and 800 in3/oz top). Construction of the REI bag looked ok--I couldn't find any obvious flaws.

I guess that if I were in the market for a -20F bag either bag would be worth considering.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

DougPaul replied: The Warmlite bags have built in vapor barriers. A uniqe bag+pad system.

Interesting design. The fully adjustable hood has me curious. I'm a stomach/side sleeper, so anything to facilitate my comfort and warmth would be appreciated. Traditional bags tend to cater to those who sleep on their backs. The VBL is logical. Although I tend to dress minimally in my bag so overheating and sweating is rarely a problem. I'm sure it all adds up though.

Yes it is an interesting design. However, I wouldn't commit to a built-in VBL until I tried one and decided that I liked it. Dave.m has some interesting comments on his experience using them at http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/vb.txt.
(Don't forget that you will end up using a -20F bag on many significantly warmer nights. A removable VBL would give you the option of using it when you want it and not the rest of the time.)

I'm also a stomach and side sleeper--on the trail I'm generally ok on my side. Only on the very coldest nights do I have to sleep on my back. (Putting something such as a water bottle under my knees or a hat under the small of my back helps.)

Doug

 

[bobandgeri]

Most people seem be discussing bags rated at minus 20 degrees. Is that warm enough? How about for a 2 night stay in the Carter hut in Febuary? Wondering why people do not use a minus 40 degree bag?

Does anyone know what bags and how much EMS (or others) charges for rentals?

 

[DougPaul]

Most people seem be discussing bags rated at minus 20 degrees. Is that warm enough? How about for a 2 night stay in the Carter hut in Febuary? Wondering why people do not use a minus 40 degree bag?

The original question was about a -20F bag.

Unsually, but not always adequate in the Whites.

The EMS Mountain Light series includes a -40F bag: 4lb, 11oz. 12in loft.
IMO, a decent bag. Should be adequate for almost anything the Whites dish out. (There was a -48F on Mt Wash a few years ago...)

Doug

 

[Chip]

Does anyone know what bags and how much EMS (or others) charges for rentals?

Acadia Mountain Guides lists a Wiggys -20 for rent. I don't see -40 listed anywhere. I'd call a store.
If it gets below -15 around here this winter I plan to test my -40 bag against a 0 bag with a VBL and bivy cover, or some such combo, in a controlled situation (like my back yard).
However, if it's going to be below +15 in the woods, I'd take my -40 bag, regardless.

 

[sapblatt]

- 40s are quite pricey.
I have not seen EMS or REI rent out bags that are rated much below 0...

 

[jfb]

Most people seem be discussing bags rated at minus 20 degrees. Is that warm enough? How about for a 2 night stay in the Carter hut in Febuary? Wondering why people do not use a minus 40 degree bag?

I also worry about those extra cold nights. My new bag is rated at -25 F and it's wide enough so I can wear my down jacket and Primaloft pants inside if it gets colder than that.

 

[bobmak]

I think a -20 bag is adequate, but this is all a matter of perception. Sleeping comfort is a very personal thing. You can put 2 people in the same bag under the same conditions and one will be cold while the other will be comfy. I've used a 20 degree bag TNF blue kazoo when it has gotten into the single numbers, and slept with fleece pants, fleece jacket, hat and gloves and was comfortable.

I think too that something to consider is the actual conditions that you are intending to use the bag in. Personally, I have slept in -20 conditions already and if I remember correctly, we were pretty miserable when getting out of our bags and breaking camp. Add any sort of wind and these are very dangerous conditions; even experienced people have died under these conditions in the past. I think these days if I hear the temps were going to be -20 or lower I would bag any sort of multi night trip; maybe I am just getting wimpy in my old age! In an emergency I am sure you could use a -20 bag and the clothes you have to make it through the night.

 

[DougPaul]

I think a -20 bag is adequate, but this is all a matter of perception. Sleeping comfort is a very personal thing.

I spent a night out in the Whites where the temp was measured at -30F the next morning. (Don't know what the min temp was.) IIRC, wind wasn't an issue. I was comfortable in a tent on snow using a -40F bag (EMS Dhaulagiri) and a 1/2 in closed cell foam pad. Getting going the next morning was fine--we had breakfast in bed (Logan bread and warm water).

Would a -20F bag have been adequate? Don't know. Don't recall what others were using (except one woman's white ensolite pad fractured into many pieces in the cold).

And the weekend where the temps on Mt Wash were -48F with high winds? (This was the weekend when the ranger from Monadnock died of hypothermia on South Twin.) Had I been out that weekend, I think I would have preferred a -40F bag over a -20F bag.

Your choice and consequences.

Doug

 

[bobandgeri]

Okay - so if we can only purchase 1 Winter bag, and price is not a primary issue would you opt for a -40 bag over a -20 so you are all set for colder temps, just in case.

Anyone have any experience with the North Face Inferno?

 

[bobmak]

Your choice and consequences.

My point exactly. If you are not planning to be out when the temps are going to be below -20, then do you need a -40 bag? I think most people (the key word here is most!) people are weekend campers. The weather reports are pretty good one or two days out. If the weather report was calling for temps at 40 below, would you still venture out for a weekend trip? Myself, I'd probably choose to wait until the cold snap ended. But it's all personal choice. As I said earlier, I've been out when it's been cold and windy; I'm just a wimpy old man now

Of course, if you were planning a winter traverse of Baxter or some other long range trips or a high altitude expedition, then you really do have to be prepared for the absolute worse and you should spend the $600-700 for a Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends expedition bag. As always, it's all about choices.

IMHO, as long as you know your own limits as well as the limitsof your equipment, and respect both, you'll be OK.

 

[DougPaul]

Okay - so if we can only purchase 1 Winter bag, and price is not a primary issue would you opt for a -40 bag over a -20 so you are all set for colder temps, just in case.

IMO, it depends on what you plan to do.

If you only go out on short trips (say weekend) and are willing to stay home if cold weather is forecast, then the -20F bag is probably ok.

If you want to go out on longer trips where weather forecasts become less accurate, you might want the -40F bag for the safety. If we are talking about down bags, the -40F bag will probably stay warmer as moisture collects in the down.

If you already have a lightweight 40-20F bag, you can put it inside a -20F bag to cover the colder nights. Heavier, but cheaper than -20F and -40F bags.

Doug

 

[bobandgeri]

Doug

Assuming that we could purchase the following bags for the same price ,how would you rate them - in your opinion? This would be a bag for each of us.


Marmot Col Reg EQ -20

Sierra Designs Echo -20 (they offer a woman's model)

Mountain Hard Wear Wraith SL -20

North Face Solar Endurence -20

EMS Mountain Light -20

 

[Nadine]

Thanks for all your help DougPaul.

I saw BobandGeri's note about the 20% off EMS deal also being online. I just rechecked the web site and they now list a minus 20 down bag in the 6 foot length for 299. Weight 4 lbs. I'm going to order one early tomorrow when I get up.

Nadine

 

[DougPaul]

Doug

Assuming that we could purchase the following bags for the same price ,how would you rate them - in your opinion? This would be a bag for each of us.

Marmot Col Reg EQ -20

Sierra Designs Echo -20 (they offer a woman's model)

Mountain Hard Wear Wraith SL -20

North Face Solar Endurence -20

EMS Mountain Light -20

The risk of being paired--everything costs twice as much...

The North Face bag doesn't appear to be available anymore. (At least I couldn't find any listings with a search.)

The only bag that I have direct experience with is the EMS. From the descriptions at REI and EMS, the bags all seem fairly similar. I'd have to look at the bags in person to evaluate the small differences. Unfortunately, the most important parameter--the loft--isn't listed.

My guess is that any of the bags will do the job.

I have the EMS bag. I've used it once in a shelter at a temp of ~5F. It was fine. It seems to be the cheapest of the lot ($299) and the lightest (4lb 0oz). As noted in some of the earlier posts there may be a problem with current availability (a reg is currently listed on their web site). If you want to keep the cost down and can't get this bag, you might consider the REI Kilo -20F bag (see my earlier comments).

Perhaps I should note that I also have the EMS Mountain Light -40 bag, so if I fear that it will be too cold for my -20F bag, I can just bring the -40 bag.

I don't think that I can really recommend one over the others--only you know how you weight the value of the various details and the prices.

Hopefully this is of some help.

Doug