Courtesy to hunters

[smh444]

Is there some unwritten rule to stay out of the woods during hunting season? I was thinking of doing a Catskill backback next weekend - if you stay on the trails are you likely to interfere with hunters? I know they only get about 1 month per year so I would hate to spoil their few moments in the woods.

 

[Jay H]

Depends on where you go..

In the catskills, not many hunters (and even in general) would not be in the high peaks because if they bag any big game animal, they would have to drag that sucka out. So like say the Devil's Path in the catskills, you're not likely to run into a hunter, plus it's a commonly hiked trail too.

Seemingly the only hunters I've ran into is way out west in the catskills, like west of Balsam Lake Firetower. Me and two friends of mine were hiking to Balsam Lake firetower from Alder lake and we ran into a hiker at the trailhead and up the small plateau by the leanto there. We chatted a bit and there were hunters camping at the trailhead there and I believe a hunter parked on the fireroad that runs between Balsam Lake Mtn and Graham. I had my hunter orange vest on so I was basically the "point" on that hike. I haven't run into any hunters elsewhere but I'm sure they're in the more uncommon areas. Also, you'll find hunters on the short plateaus from trailheads as if they do bag a deer, they would only have to drag it downhill.

Jay

 

[Waumbek]

Which "hunting season"?
___________________________________________________________
NH 2004 General Hunting Season Dates
May 1 - May 2 Youth turkey hunting weekend
May 3 - May 31 Spring gobbler season
Sept. 1 - Dec. 5 Black bear/dates vary according to method and WMU
Sept. - Jan. 2005 Waterfowl/dates vary by species and zone
Dates vary Waterfowl/youth weekend
Sept. 15 - Dec. 15 Deer/archery
Sept. 15 - Dec. 15 Wild turkey/archery
Sept. 1 - March 2005 Small game/dates vary by species and region
Oct. 1 - Dec. 31 Pheasant
Oct. 16 - Oct. 24 Moose
Oct. 23 - Oct. 24 Deer/youth weekend
Oct. 30 - Nov. 9 Deer/muzzleloader
Nov. 10 - Dec. 5 Deer/firearms

I think it's always open season on squirrels, coyotes, porcupines, skunks, etc.

P.S. Hunting on Sunday is illegal in Maine throughout the year regardless of "season."

 

[jade]

Thanks for the heads up.......I have filled my calendar with this note on those dates: Dress brightly and run through woods screaming "Run for your lives!!"

 

[Grumpy]

I don’t think giving hunters special consideration is necessary.

But, in areas and at times where and when hunting goes on it is wise for hikers to take appropriate precautions, among them wearing “hunter” orange and avoiding the display of white “flags.” The idea is (a) to be seen in the first place and (b) to be quickly identifiable as a human being (not a prospective game target). It may be a good idea to avoid places where hunting activity is particularly intense during the seasons -- just as a matter of practicality and personal comfort. If the sight of a firearm makes you weak in the knees, it might be best to avoid hunting areas altogether at these times.

Now, about that “no special consideration” business:

It’s important to accept the reality that our society sees hunting as a legitimate activity where and when it is legal, regardless of how you or I feel about it personally. So the appropriate thing to do is provide hunters the same kind of consideration and courtesy we provide other outdoor folks who legitimately share our turf. That is, we ought not behave in ways that unnecessarily interfere with their pursuit, deliberately or otherwise. We can properly expect to receive the same kind of consideration in return.

G.

 

[Jay H]

Also, as far as courtesy goes, I am couteous to everybody I see in the woods, irregardless of my feelings towards hunting. I would never hunt, personally, I couldn't do it, but I don't have a problem with most hunters or hunting in general. So, bushwacking in hunting areas in hunting season, I would not do, but I have the outlook that yeah, you may be scaring away deer by hiking in the woods during hunting season, but you might actually be scaring deer towards hunters as well too.

Funny story though, when my 2 friends and I were going to balsam lake mtn firetower in the catskills from Alder lake. We ran into a hunter with a shouldered shotgun on his shoulder and we were talking. We mentioned we were going to Balsam Lake and he was astonished, like saying thats "6 miles from here". Thought we were superhuman or something. We didn't have the nerve to tell him we were also going to Graham too which is east of Balsam lake. That day, we stashed our bikes at the usual Balsam Lake trailhead then drove over to Alder lake, hiked Balsam Lake, then Graham, then down to the trailhead and rode our bikes with headlamps back to Alder lake in complete darkness. When we got back to the trailhead just south of Balsam Lake, it was like Tent City with all the hunters there in the field.

Jay

 

[Rick]

Now, about that “no special consideration” business:

It’s important to accept the reality that our society sees hunting as a legitimate activity where and when it is legal, regardless of how you or I feel about it personally. So the appropriate thing to do is provide hunters the same kind of consideration and courtesy we provide other outdoor folks who legitimately share our turf. That is, we ought not behave in ways that unnecessarily interfere with their pursuit, deliberately or otherwise. We can properly expect to receive the same kind of consideration in return.

G.

Good point Grumpy!
I try to treat everyone with courtesy in the backcountry - especially if they are compliant with land use regulations. I have been with hikers who have become angry at seeing a hunter, who have started foolishly making a lot of noise to try to startle game after they pass the hunter. Fact is, I grew up hunting, fishing and trapping for pelts. While I still fish, I no longer hunt or trap. Many of the folks or groups I hike with have not grown up with the opportunity to learn these skills and it pains me to hear some of the things that are said after we pass hunters in the woods or comments that occur this time every year about hunters taking over land that people legitimately want to use for hiking. I don't yet know what it is like over here in Mass, having just moved here, but I hope hikers don't treat these folks like 2nd class citizens or drunken rednecks.

I once passed a an outraged woman hiking on the AT who wanted to know if I had a cell phone so she could call 911 about a hunter near a trail further up ahead of where I was going. (I didn't have a phone). I tried to reason with her, (state lands & hunting season) but she was very angry to see him. When I passed him a few minutes later (he was sitting at a trail junction dressed in camo with blaze orange drinking coffee from a thermos. I asked what happened to enrage that woman - He shrugged his shoulders and said that he greeted her with good morning - She gave him an icy stare, made a wide berth around him, sped up, called him an "asshole" and kept going.

Another time I was with some solo kayaking but about 30 yards behind a couple of other kayakers and as I came around a bend in the shoreline, there were a man, woman and 2 boys sitting, fishing, with their lines cast. One of the yaks ahead of me gave wide berth to the fishing lines, the other paddled right over the crux where the one of the lines met the water. I found this action rude and obnoxious.

I guess my point is that these folks all pay money to enjoy and share the lands. Unless what they are doing is illegal, we need to act like the curteous adults that we are and realize that we all have a common goal in enjoying AND SHARING public land and water.

 

[smh444]

Thank you for all of the replies. My takeaway from this discussion is:

1) There is no general animosity between the groups (which is good).

2) It is unlikely that there will be many (if any) hunters more than a mile beyond a given trailhead.

3) Wear an orange vest just to be safe.

4) Beware outraged hikers with cell phones

 

[Holdstrong]

Am I the only one who (admittedly on principle alone) resents the notion that hikers should have to wear "bright" colors during hunting season or avoid, or tread lightly, in certain areas?

I recognize that these suggestions are just common sense safety precautions given the reality of the situation, and they are good suggestions that we all need to follow. But to me they speak to the lopsided nature of the relationship between Hunters and Hikers.

Both groups have an equal right to enjoy the land, so why are we the ones tailoring our activities to them? (the wiseguy answer is that they have the guns ) - what special considerations are we getting from hunters? I think it is important to recognize this fact.

Afterall, hunters should not be popping off shots at anything that moves. If they can not confirm that their target is in fact the animal they are hunting, then they shouldnt be shooting at it.... heck, they shouldnt be allowed to own a gun.

ps: And as far as scaring the deer away... how many of you have had deer run across the trail you are hiking? I've even had one run out in front of me... stop.... stare back at me, and just stand there for literally 10 minutes. I can't count how many times a deer strolled through my camp, close enough to practically touch.

 

[Peakbagr]

We shouldn't assume that hiking and hunting are mutually exclusive activities. There are many VFTT members who are active hikers and avid hunters.
The only ones in the woods who are REQUIRED to wear orange are hunters. Hikers can wear blue, white, brown or whatever color they want. Common sense dictates something bright orange.

In the Adirondacks, Catskills and Green Mtn, hunting for subsistence and to supplement the diet, predated by generations the era in the 1800's when wealty dudes vacationed in the mountains and could hire local hunters to take them "hiking".

Lest we resent the redcoats' presence in the woods for a couple of months, they are the ones who plow the roads and trailheads, caretake your summer home, belong to the local rescue squads and VFDs, and generally pay the bills that support the infrastructure that allows us to recreate in the mountains year 'round. I try to remember that whenever I'm in the woods in the Fall.

 

[spencer]

Well said, Peakbagr!

- what special considerations are we getting from hunters? I think it is important to recognize this fact.

What about the federally and locally designated areas (wilderness and otherwise) where hunting isn't allowed? those are forced concessions where hunters agree to step aside to the wants of others. Not to say hunters don't like wilderness, but it certainly doesn't serve their recreational pursuits the way it serves those of hikers.

It works both ways...

spencer

 

[Holdstrong]

Ok, just as we should not vilify hunters, we should also not deify them. They are no more responsible for the plowing of our roads or for taking care of summer homes than any other group is... including our fellow hikers.... or skiers, or snowmobilers, or people who dont like the woods at all.

(And there are all sorts of reasons why hunting is not allowed on certain federally funded lands.... almost none of which have to do specifically with hiking or hikers)

It is really not that big of a deal, I know this. And I am not so naive as to think this will change - I understand the reality of the situation... but it still irks me to hear people talk about how hikers might spoil hunter's time in the woods, or act as if courtesy and concessions flow freely from one group to the other. It doesn't. Maybe this is simply due to the nature of the two activities.... hiking requires very little in the way of concessions from others.

I mean, what exactly do hunters have to take into consideration when sharing the land with me? What concession are they making when hunting in the same area where I hike? We share the same trails, the same shelters, abide by the rules and regulations... yet I am also asked to change what I wear, to not "scare" the wildlife, and, the biggy, to consider not hiking at all.

 

[SherpaKroto]

Am I the only one who (admittedly on principle alone) resents the notion that hikers should have to wear "bright" colors during hunting season or avoid, or tread lightly, in certain areas?

Last time I checked, the hunters wear orange also, in many states, by law. As for me, I'm pretty easy to see, but when I have my bright orange vest on over my pack, the only hunter that would look to me as a target is a pumpkin hunter. I'll wear orange, and not give it a second thought.

 

[Waumbek]

What about the federally and locally designated areas (wilderness and otherwise) where hunting isn't allowed?

NH state-owned forest lands where hunting is not allowed: the Frost Farm Historical Site in Derry, Urban Forestry Center in Portsmouth, Odiorne Point State Park in Rye (east side of Route 1A only - the west side of Route 1A is open to hunting), Shieling State Forest in Peterborough, Opeechee Bay State Forest in Laconia and Pondicherry Wildlife Refuge in Jefferson. Hunting is allowed in Franconia Notch State Park although not near trails, roads, parking lots etc. Pondicherry is a wonderful place, by the way. You can hike in on the Cohos Trail, which I don't recommend highly, or on the rail-trail, much better. Access it from Airport Road off Route 15. The remains of Waumbek Junction are there if you're a train buff. The ponds, Big and Little Cherry, are entirely unspoiled. It's an Audubon paradise. It offers one of the very few views of Mt Washington and the Presidentials over water so it's also a photographer's delight. The walk in is flat and suitable for young and old. The State of NH has recently acquired more land for the refuge.

 

[masshysteria]

In Mass., the shotgun season is the 3 weeks after Thanksgiving, so I tend to stay out of the woods. It's not that I'm fearful of being confused for a deer, it's the hunters turn to play. I'm not a hunter, but I do think the hunter plays a part in the control of the overpopulation of deer, at least in this end of the state.

 

[bobandgeri]

It's all about common sense. If you are hiking in an area where you may be close to hunters, wear something orange! Better to be safe than dead. Accidents happen - hunters miss - if you blend in too the background a stray bullet could hit you. This weekend we had planned to hike Elephant. When we drove up the logging road we found a truck parked so that it was blocking our access past the first turn. For a few minutes we were going to hike the extra mile (each way), but after thinking about we aborted our paln - we did not have orange vests with us - after looking at a map and the foot prints left by the two hunters we realized they could be working their way around and towards the trail we would be hiking. Oh well - we'll hike it another day. Although disappointed we couldn't hike the peak we wanted too, no ill will towards hunters - so far this Fall we have talked some very friendly ones, and been waved too by countless numbers as we drove the logging roads, and regular roads. Share the roads, the woods, the oceans, etc. They belong to everyone!

 

[Dalraida]

Hunting in wilderness areas?

To: Spencer, Hunting is permitted in designated wilderness areas. Of course many "W" boundarys are a bit of travel into the woods so that hunters don't want to drag their "harvest" out that far and usually won't be in there.

 

[spencer]

To: Spencer, Hunting is permitted in designated wilderness areas.

yes, thank you, Dalraida. I said wilderness and other areas. I did not mean to imply federal Wilderness (capital W) disallows hunting. There are other designations for federal land and other definitions of wilderness (e.g. non-SFMA BSP) that do ban hunting.

spencer

 

[Mountainhound]

2 points i would like to make.

1) were do you think the money comes from for all this state and federal land you hike on there holdstrong? thats right hunter fees such as lisenses and the pitmen robertson act which is a tax on ammo. this money goes to buying lands for states and federal goverment. theres your conncession.

2) wearing orange isn't so they/we mistake you for something your not. it is so we know your there. for instence i dont know your there. there is a deer between you and me i shoot bullit goes through comes out otherside and through you too. or more likely senario is, i miss hits you.

just becuase you are not a hunter doesn't meen you own the woods, nor do i. use common sense wear orange it could just save your life.

 

[Holdstrong]

This weekend we had planned to hike Elephant. . . but after thinking about (it) we aborted our plan - we did not have orange vests with us - . . . Oh well - we'll hike it another day.

Share the roads, the woods, the oceans, etc. They belong to everyone!

I don't see how this is "sharing" - you were unable to hike.

If they drove up and noticed you hiking, would they be unable to hunt? No.

That's the problem I have with this. Not that we occasionally have to abort our plans... fine, thats the reality of it. But don't try to paint this as everyone sharing the land. Because that's not what is going on. One group, hunters, because of the very nature of their "sport", are forcing other groups, like hikers, to yield the land to them during these time periods.

Sure, hunters only get to hunt during certain time periods... but that is not because of us. We have nothing to do with that. That is once again the nature of their "sport"

So I don't think there is anything wrong in pointing this out. WE are the ones conceding here... not them.