Courtesy to hunters

[Rivet]

I was thinking of doing a Catskill backback next weekend - if you stay on the trails are you likely to interfere with hunters?

I climbed the Blackhead Range today. I saw a couple of hunters at the trailhead, but didn't see any once I got in the woods. I could hear gunshots in the distance.
Hunters are not likely to go very far into the forest or climb very far up. I don't think deer season has started yet in NY.

 

[Mountainhound]

I don't see how this is "sharing" - you were unable to hike.

If they drove up and noticed you hiking, would they be unable to hunt? No.

That's the problem I have with this. Not that we occasionally have to abort our plans... fine, thats the reality of it. But don't try to paint this as everyone sharing the land. Because that's not what is going on. One group, hunters, because of the very nature of their "sport", are forcing other groups, like hikers, to yield the land to them during these time periods.

Sure, hunters only get to hunt during certain time periods... but that is not because of us. We have nothing to do with that. That is once again the nature of their "sport"

So I don't think there is anything wrong in pointing this out. WE are the ones conceding here... not them.

your right it's not becuase of you it's becuase long range seeing hunters saw a need for a hunting season and imposed these regulation on us. as for bieng a hunter and i come to an area that has alot of hiking activity yes i have and do change plans.

 

[TomEske]

I'm trying to choke this back, but so help me I cannot....
Holdstrong, you seem like a nice person, but somewhat uninformed. You seem to think you are doing the hunters a big favor, but in reality, it is really the other way 'round. You see, the hunters license dollars go DIRECTLY to habitat and wildlife management, at least in New York State. The pittance that comes from sporting goods taxes that you pay on your boots and packs, etc, does not really amount to a drop in the bucket and it has to trickle through the federal system before it gets to where it is needed, so you see it is their money that has the most impact on the land available to hunt and hike. They are only out for a few weeks a year, and are happy to let you enjoy the land for the other many weeks. I do not hear them complaining about the mess so many of the hikers leave.
We all own the public land, if you don't mind sharing it with me as a hiker, why do you have a problem sharing it with me as a hunter? I don't alter my hiking during the seasons, and I don't wear that silly orange vest either. I meet hunters in the woods, and just say 'hi' to them or chat as if they were hikers. What is the difference? I surely don't see what all the concern is about. I'm sorry if I'm a dolt in your eyes, but this is a fact of life when you live in places like this.
There, I said it, now I will go soak my thoughts in alchohol and dilute them.
Hike On,
Tom

By the way, if you came upon me in the woods when I was back in my hunting days, you would have never seen me anyway. I actually had a guy step on me once.

 

[Holdstrong]

I'm sorry if I'm a dolt in your eyes, but this is a fact of life when you live in places like this.
Hike On,
Tom

By the way, if you came upon me in the woods when I was back in my hunting days, you would have never seen me anyway. I actually had a guy step on me once.

Tom, I dont think anyone here is a dolt. I simply reject this notion that hikers and hunters are equally sharing the land during hunting season. They are not. Hikers yield to hunters. I dont know what lessons you all learned in the sandbox as kids, but that is NOT the definition of sharing.

If you want to make the argument that you somehow "pay" more for the land and therefore have more of a right to it.... then go ahead and make that argument. It is probably a good one to make. But that is not sharing anything.

 

[Mountainhound]

i know you weren't talking to me but no one said we have more of a right to the woods. if you read one of my previous post you will see that i said neither of us own the land. but i will guarinty you hunters pay far more for land use than hikers.

 

[bobandgeri]

I don't see how this is "sharing" - you were unable to hike.

We were not able to hike "that" hike - we were able to hike "another" hike. It was our choice not to hike "that" hike. We could of - we could have been wrong about where we thought the hikers might be headed, but just like when there is a dange of bad weather - we try to be flexable.

 

[Waumbek]

I don't know if a funny hunter-hiker story is in order at this point or not, but here goes. I was hiking in the hills of northern Italy in October and came across an old man dressed in regular clothes carrying a rifle. He started waving his arms wildly at me and saying something or other over and over, sounded like "catch your tory." My Italian wasn't good enough to get it. No tory redcoats in sight. He seemed very agitated, and he had a gun, so I thought this guy was really wacko and beat it. As it turns out he must have thought I was the wacko one. I beat it into a circle of hunters, about 20 of them, who were tightening the ring around a wild boar. The old man waving his arms was evidently trying to gesture a circle and that I was entering the kill zone. This was October and that's boar (singali) hunt time. Now I know what "cacciatore" (catch your tory) means, and it aint just that chicken dish on the menu.

 

[Rick]

One group, hunters, because of the very nature of their "sport", are forcing other groups, like hikers, to yield the land to them during these time periods.... ....We have nothing to do with that. That is once again the nature of their "sport"

Holdstrong, We have chatted in the past of the NLP, either here or the ADK Forum, and I certainly don't want this to seem like folks are ganging, but I would like to just point out that when you refer to the word "Sport" it appears you don't consider hunting a sport. That's fine but the very nature of sports and sportsman-like conduct came from hunting and fishing over the past few centuries and even before in Europe. Until probably up to the mid 20th century, Everything else was just a game. Now games are called sports, but all those sportsmans clubs you see in or small towns, folks may be in there watching games on TV now, but they were formed from the sport of hunting and fishing.

BTW, I always wear blaze orange when on the trail (plus my Dana pumpkin orange Astralplane) but even in non0hunting seasons, I always carry a blaze orange bandanna. There may come a time when I need someone to see me.

Cheers

 

[Holdstrong]

i know you weren't talking to me but no one said we have more of a right to the woods. if you read one of my previous post you will see that i said neither of us own the land. but i will guarinty you hunters pay far more for land use than hikers.

Well then, if paying more for the land use does not grant you more of a right to use it.... then I dont understand why it is being brought up. If you admit that paying more in the form of fees and taxes does not grant you priority on the land, then we are right back to the original point of discusion. That the land belongs equally to everyone, despite who pays taxes on what, yet hikers are asked to yield to hunters during hunting season. Again, that is not sharing.

Anyway - I personally dont have much of a problem with it. I am fine yielding the woods or making concessions during these time periods. I just don't like it when people portray this as an even relationship... that by staying home and not hiking I am somehow "sharing" the land. Or that hikers somehow owe it to hunters to not "spoil" their hunting time... while it is perfectly acceptable if hunters "spoil" our hiking time.

It's a pretty meaningless point, one of principle as I stated in my first post, and not something I'm gonna fall on my sword over or continue to go around in circles with people about (which is where this is heading)

Anyway, I hope you all have a good hunting or hiking season - whichever it is you do.

 

[Holdstrong]

Holdstrong, We have chatted in the past of the NLP, either here or the ADK Forum, and I certainly don't want this to seem like folks are ganging, but I would like to just point out that when you refer to the word "Sport" it appears you don't consider hunting a sport. That's fine but the very nature of sports and sportsman-like conduct came from hunting and fishing over the past few centuries and even before in Europe. Until probably up to the mid 20th century, Everything else was just a game. Now games are called sports, but all those sportsmans clubs you see in or small towns, folks may be in there watching games on TV now, but they were formed from the sport of hunting and fishing.

BTW, I always wear blaze orange when on the trail (plus my Dana pumpkin orange Astralplane) but even in non0hunting seasons, I always carry a blaze orange bandanna. There may come a time when I need someone to see me.


Cheers

Different definition of what a "sport" and a "sportsman" is - thats all.

I dont consider hunting a sport anymore than I consider hiking a sport... but no disrespect was intended. And if people are apt to get worked up over something like quotation marks around the word "sport"... well then, they probably shouldnt own guns

 

[Mountainhound]

how do hunters spoil your hiking no one said stay home dont hike. but let me ask this you are camped and you want some peace and quit do you want a bunch of rowdys camping next to you, no you dont or you see some people camped do you go right up and set up camp right next to them or do you move up trail alittle. or maybe you happen to be traveling at about same pce as another group do you make yourself a nusiance or maybe stop for a breack, or maybe speed up for a few so you can both enjoy your own experiance. in the same respect hunters would like the same courtisy. but i quess wearing orange for a few weeks a year, or maybe not hiking a particular area on occasions is to much an inconvenience (sp) i quess your view of sharing is whats mine is mine whats yours is mine. becuase the way it is hiking goes on year round hunting is a few weeks a year.

 

[Holdstrong]

how do hunters spoil your hiking no one said stay home dont hike.

Read the entire thread. That advice was given several times, and a story was even provided of a hiker who aborted a particular hike because of hunters.

becuase the way it is hiking goes on year round hunting is a few weeks a year.

And that is the hikers fault ..... how? I'm sorry your "sport" only allows you a few months of activity, and I am sorry you are mad about this. But I dont see how that is my fault in any way shape or form.

If you are now saying that because your "sport" is seasonal and you do not get to enjoy it as much as I do mine, that I should therefore make concessions, alter my activity, and otherwise yield the land to you... then make that argument, it is probably a good one to make. But again, that is not "sharing" the land - which, if you have read what I have written, is the problem that I have. This notion that we are somehow equally sharing the land during hunting season when we are in fact giving you priority over the land during these periods of time. Which, again, is fine.... but lets call a spade a spade here.

 

[Mountainhound]

i have no problm with the seasons as set forth. my problm is with people like you who seem to think you own the woods. the only conncession you make during hunting season is wearing orange. as for aborted hikes he aborted his hike like he said becuase he didn't have orange and it didn't matter. i quess when the trail crosses a road you feel the cars should move out of your way becuase hey were hiking here.

 

[Holdstrong]

No need to get hostile. You have some good points, and I actualy agree with you on them, but intentionally misrepresenting my statements won't help us reach an understanding. It may make you feel better, but that's about it.

I never said I own the woods and you would have to intentionally twist my words pretty hard to make it seem that way. I am the person saying that we ALL (hikers and hunters) have equal right to the woods, yet it is the hikers who are yielding the woods and making concessions this time of year. I have even gone on to say that I dont mind this, and that I understand it... but it doesnt change the fact that it is WE who yield to YOU during this time of year. How exactly that makes it seem to you like I own the woods is truly beyond me. I hope you appreciate this courtesy more when you are out there enjoying yourself than you seem to in this thread.

 

[Mountainhound]

how i make this leap is that your the one who brought up that hikers have to make concessions to hunters when in woods. you dont seem to like the fact that you may not be able to hike a certian spot becuase hunters may be in area or that you have to wear orange so you dont accidently get shot. let me ask you this another way. (by the way sorry if i seem to get alittle hot under the collar passionate about this subject). lets see you pull into trailhead of area you want to hike but there seems to be far more cars/people there than you want to hike around (i know i like the quit. there are many place i wont hike becuase of far to many people. Monadnoc for 1) do you hike the area or change plans. either way you are making a concession aren't you?

 

[Holdstrong]

you dont seem to like the fact that you may not be able to hike a certian spot becuase hunters may be in area or that you have to wear orange so you dont accidently get shot.

And if that was really what I have been saying, I could understand you getting hot and making the point that I think I own the land.

But let me pull some quotes from my posts for you:

yet it is the hikers who are yielding the woods and making concessions this time of year. I have even gone on to say that I dont mind this, and that I understand it

This notion that we are somehow equally sharing the land during hunting season when we are in fact giving you priority over the land during these periods of time. Which, again, is fine...

Anyway - I personally dont have much of a problem with it. I am fine yielding the woods or making concessions during these time periods.

That's the problem I have with this. Not that we occasionally have to abort our plans...

I hope you can see now that I have NOT been saying that. You may disagree with my point (which is waaaay past lost right now) but at least understand that I have categorically NOT been saying that I think I should not have to share the land with Hunters. Quite the opposite, I have gone out of my way to say that I am fine with it....

What I am saying is that currently we do NOT equally "share" the land during hunting season. Hikers are the ones making the concessions. I am ALSO fine with this, but I do resent it being portayed as some equal and mutual concession or relationship. It is not. Hikers do the yielding.

Disagree or agree with that point, but please dont say that I think I own the woods, when I have made every effort to state otherwise.

(EDIT: sorry added some minor text after the post.)

 

[Peakbagr]

I'm not part of this "debate", only an observer, but I don't see how hikers are conceding anything. Other than they might have to wear a different color for a month to protect themselves. Now if the state closed some trails to hunting only, we might be onto something.

 

[ALGonquin Bob]

Lots of emotion here. This is another one of those topics that will always create a lively debate. I usually prefer to avoid conflicts such as this, but once in a while my "hot button" gets pushed. Personally, I avoid trips during hunting season, because there are too many ya-hoos who shoot at anything that moves, and I don't care to hear gunfire while I'm out enjoying nature. Maybe we just need a special heading for conversations about sports, dogs, snowmobiles, hunting, and cell phones!

 

[Mountainhound]

I'm not part of this "debate", only an observer, but I don't see how hikers are conceding anything. Other than they might have to wear a different color for a month to protect themselves. Now if the state closed some trails to hunting only, we might be onto something.

Peakbagr thats what i have been trying to say all along but obviously my communication skills leave alot to be desired.

 

[lumberzac]

What I am saying is that currently we do NOT equally "share" the land during hunting season. Hikers are the ones making the concessions. I am ALSO fine with this, but I do resent it being portayed as some equal and mutual concession or relationship. It is not. Hikers do the yielding.

I don't agree with that statement. There are areas, such as Marcy Dam or Johns Brook Valley, where I would never hunt due to the fact that these areas have so many hikes in them that I wouldn't feel safe hunting there. The chance of hitting a hiker with a bullet intended for a deer. In this case, I as the hunter yield to the hiker.