Coyotes: Followed by a pack in Belknaps. Anyone else ever have an issue with them?

[Andrew]

Coyote is really the only wild critter I fear here in New England. Black bear don't bother me much and I enjoy and look forward to chasing them off as part of my job.

Once in the early 90's I was repeatedly charged by a coyote as I was just trying to skirt a rocky hill top in Tunbridge VT. I had a German Shepard dog with me, and my guess was the coyote was defending a den. I wish I could remeber the title, but one of the first books about the eastern coyote actually featured the sheep farm that was on the other side of the hill I was skirting. Many sheep carcass abounded in their pastures. The coyotes used to come down to my house quite often to try to get to my sheep and cats, and they seemed very skilled at avoiding my shotgun. They ran the gamut from resplendant wolf-like animals, to scraggly western-like coyotes from that early genetic mixing.

There used to be a healthy pack that roamed certain areas of a mountain in Jaffrey NH, but they seemed to have thinned out before I left the area. It always creeped me out when I had to go out on a late night call to go alone searching deep into the woods and would hear the yips and howls.

 

[Neil]

IMO, filling the niche left by the extermination of the wolf is a good thing. Longterm, it will result in a healthier mammal population (deer, moose, rabbits, etc).

Maybe a faster hiking population too.

 

[Lefty E]

Yea and of course, any deer kill I have seen by coyote they always take just a little bit of the choicest meat and leave almost a full carcass..but of course, maybe they are taking care of the ravens, crows, gray jays (yes!!) fox, turkey vultures, mice etc., and maggots in warmer weather....

 

[Little Rickie]

It seems there is as much anxiety and missinformation on coyotes as there is about bears. Relax folks and be carefull how you drive and cross the street, you have a greater risk from that than than coyotes.

 

[John in NH]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their coyote stories and for the extra sources/citations on them. Great stuff! I figured instead of relying on wikipedia it would be interesting to tap into the actual experience of the members of this board who have spent a lot of time in the woods to see how prevalent or rare coyote encounters were. I feel that this topic is worthy of discussion hereand hasn't been on hikers radars that much, especially compared to the black bears.

In response to fear mongering concerns, honestly that wasn't my intent, sharing experience and information was, and while I certainly respect the posters who express the opinion that there is too much fear over coyotes, I think comparing the consideration of their impact/potential danger of PACKS of coyotes to "killer squirrels" to hikers is a bit over the top and unexpected, even if in jest. So let me emphasize a few things:

I did not, and still generally speaking, do not fear coyotes myself, despite my encounters. I respect them though. I think from an environmental standpoint its great they are back in such numbers. But hiking with them is a different perspective than an environmental theory one.
I never asserted I was being stalked, I said I was followed...who knows the reason. One thing is for sure, if you hear very loud howls and response from fifty yards away (never getting farther away) at fifteen different times over the course of hiking 1.3 miles over crunchy ice, you are being followed.

For a while, I used to be a MA suburb dweller who only hiked NH 4ks and ma state parks. During that time I never had an experience with a coyote, other than seeing occasional scat or tracks in snow. A few years ago, I moved to central NH and broadened my (usually solo) hiking horizons to less traveled, non peakbagger areas in the region and across northern new england. Initally around my house, I only saw one lone coyote one morning, and heard occasional howls in my area. Within the past year, I now literally live with a pack (even in summer, not just typical winter packing/mating) on my property in a very rural area (miles of woods on one side, hundred plus acres farms are my neighbors) and hear them almost every day.

The fact is that Eastern coyotes can be predatory vs. pure scavengers. I watched them hunt deer from a distance of 40 feet while standing outdoors! Coyotes can get rabies. A pack 4-6 coyotes, if they for whatever reason wanted to, could hurt you. Coyotes in NH and the northeast are bigger and have different DNA and BEHAVIOR than Western coyotes. NH fish and game tells you that much, http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_profiles/profile_eastern_coyote.htm

The coyotes I have seen around me are as dark furred as the first picture from NJ wildlife

while looking more facially and size of this pic from mass wildlife

If reading these threads causes you to lose sleep at night or not go hiking, don't read them. As for me, I'd rather better understand the environment which I enter. I get the sense a lot of other folks on this board do too. We can't all be logging on only to read the 300th mount tecumseh or tripyramids trip report right? I will still hike as before, just with more knowledge and preparation.

Final perspective: all the stats about virtually zero human attacks/risk go out the window when you feel like you are about to become the exception to those statistics. During my descent of Piper mountain, it was the first time in my life I felt the instinct of something that had become prey click in. Until you are that close and not near a house or car, its tough to understand.

 

[Little Rickie]

I've seen the darker smaller and the larger lighter german shepherd type around Fairport, New York. Don't know if they hang around with each other or if one type just passing through but we got them year round. I wouldn't imagine both types would share the burbs but who knows?

They pass through my back yard regularly along with: red rox, turkeys, deer, ground hogs, rabbits and the Hawks buzzing my bird feeders.

I think it's cool to have them back after all these years! Except I need to put up a high fence to keep the deer out of my garden and nibbling my fruit trees to death.

 

[sierra]

Thanks to everyone for sharing their coyote stories and for the extra sources/citations on them. Great stuff! I figured instead of relying on wikipedia it would be interesting to tap into the actual experience of the members of this board who have spent a lot of time in the woods to see how prevalent or rare coyote encounters were. I feel that this topic is worthy of discussion hereand hasn't been on hikers radars that much, especially compared to the black bears.

In response to fear mongering concerns, honestly that wasn't my intent, sharing experience and information was, and while I certainly respect the posters who express the opinion that there is too much fear over coyotes, I think comparing the consideration of their impact/potential danger of PACKS of coyotes to "killer squirrels" to hikers is a bit over the top and unexpected, even if in jest. So let me emphasize a few things:

I did not, and still generally speaking, do not fear coyotes myself, despite my encounters. I respect them though. I think from an environmental standpoint its great they are back in such numbers. But hiking with them is a different perspective than an environmental theory one.
I never asserted I was being stalked, I said I was followed...who knows the reason. One thing is for sure, if you hear very loud howls and response from fifty yards away (never getting farther away) at fifteen different times over the course of hiking 1.3 miles over crunchy ice, you are being followed.

For a while, I used to be a MA suburb dweller who only hiked NH 4ks and ma state parks. During that time I never had an experience with a coyote, other than seeing occasional scat or tracks in snow. A few years ago, I moved to central NH and broadened my (usually solo) hiking horizons to less traveled, non peakbagger areas in the region and across northern new england. Initally around my house, I only saw one lone coyote one morning, and heard occasional howls in my area. Within the past year, I now literally live with a pack (even in summer, not just typical winter packing/mating) on my property in a very rural area (miles of woods on one side, hundred plus acres farms are my neighbors) and hear them almost every day.

The fact is that Eastern coyotes can be predatory vs. pure scavengers. I watched them hunt deer from a distance of 40 feet while standing outdoors! Coyotes can get rabies. A pack 4-6 coyotes, if they for whatever reason wanted to, could hurt you. Coyotes in NH and the northeast are bigger and have different DNA and BEHAVIOR than Western coyotes. NH fish and game tells you that much, http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Wildlife_profiles/profile_eastern_coyote.htm

The coyotes I have seen around me are as dark furred as the first picture from NJ wildlife

while looking more facially and size of this pic from mass wildlife

If reading these threads causes you to lose sleep at night or not go hiking, don't read them. As for me, I'd rather better understand the environment which I enter. I get the sense a lot of other folks on this board do too. We can't all be logging on only to read the 300th mount tecumseh or tripyramids trip report right? I will still hike as before, just with more knowledge and preparation.

Final perspective: all the stats about virtually zero human attacks/risk go out the window when you feel like you are about to become the exception to those statistics. During my descent of Piper mountain, it was the first time in my life I felt the instinct of something that had become prey click in. Until you are that close and not near a house or car, its tough to understand.

Nice post, as far as becoming prey, if you really understand your surroundings, including the animals you encounter, you will learn to NOT be prey, other then Grizzleys, I consider myself to be at the TOP of the food chain in North America.

 

[Tom13]

Two years ago, maybe late Feb early March, I saw a few. A mile and a half past the wilderness boundary on the Wilderness trail I saw something brown and fury cross the trail a few hundred feet ahead of me, couldn't see all that well with the head lamp as this was about 9pm. They left tracks but there was 10" of powder and couldn't make out the print. About a half hour later I could here them off to the right down by the river. Just before turning onto Bondcliff, got the goose prickles up the back of my neck and turned to look back at where I had come from and could see one set of eyes looking back at me. Even though they followed for 1.5-2 miles, I believe they were just curious. Made camp a ways up and never heard/saw them again.

 

[Dave Bear]

The farm in Haverhill where those buffalo live is just down the road from my parents' house. After that story in the local papers there was a retraction of sorts. It sounds as if perhaps he did lose a buffalo, but that contention that coyotes were the cause was completely bogus. I am not clear on who exactly came up with the "theory" that a pack killed the animal, but what I heard made it sound like the animal died of illness and someone had an interest in jazzing up the story. Despite the fact that these are "tame" buffalo, they are still BIG animals. In Yellowstone, only the largest wolves hunt and kill buffalo (the name of the pack escapes me now, but it is only 1 pack in the park that does this, and they are massive animals, every one of them). I'm not saying it's impossible, but I can't imagine coyotes killing anything that big, unless it was VERY old or VERY ill.

As far as buffalo, or livestock in general, 400 lb is not that big of an animal. With beef that is less than a yearling. Even fast fed veal calves are over 200 lb. Many of the instances that happen between farms and coyotes never hit the papers because it is just a fact you deal with. I grew up on over 350 acres and we had packs of coyotes back in the seventies. You never worried about them because they were scrawny and not an issue. Now they are much healthier and do present problems including taking newborn calves, day or night! Initially they would just go for the afterbirth but got braver. Two years ago three took down a full grown buck in between the house and the barn, about one hundred feet apart. When the light was turned on and they were hollered at they did not leave and finished most of the hindquarter they were eating before leaving.

A callous attitude toward them is as negligent as paranoia. They are here to stay and will continue to interact more with us. A fed coyote will be a dead coyote just like the saying goes with the bears. They deserve respect for the kind of animal they are and the way they survive and that they are a pack animal. There may come a time when they deserve more respect and a wider bearth than a moose in rut. For now I carry a loud whistle and hope that I could startle them or scare them away long enough to get my dog on a leash. I will continue to hike where I wish day or night whether they are in the area or not since I feel the woods are as much for me as them and respect is a two way deal!

 

[una_dogger]

I've seen dark, light, and grey coyotes in NY. Sizes ranging from approximately 40 pounds to approximately 65 pounds.

I've only seen light ones in NH.

Anything that keeps the deer population and tick population down is great in my book.

I was tailed once by a coyote in NY on a trail that leads from the AT to my house at the time. It was an eerie experience.

Another time, in the same place, a coyote stood at the periphery of the woods and barked just like a dog for about 30-40 minutes, I suppose trying to bait Terra, my dog.

Thier evening yipping and howling is something to hear.

 

[Stan]

Please provide a citation for this, something beyond a newspaper reference. Thanks.

My initial sources were from some of the same publications already cited above but my most reliable is an old Maineiac who explained why the coyotes I observed in Maine had some wolf characteristics.

If your interest is on the more academic and technical side, try this.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/2056628/genetics_show_eastern_wolves_are_coyote_hybrids/
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/21/8/1294

The study of DNA offers a lot of promise and challenge in many disciplines but as far as the canine is concerned, it wouldn't surprise me if there are traces of chihuahua in them thar critters!

 

[Stan]

Nice post, as far as becoming prey, if you really understand your surroundings, including the animals you encounter, you will learn to NOT be prey, other then Grizzleys, I consider myself to be at the TOP of the food chain in North America.

Good advice but don't forget about mountain lions and that nothing is foolproof with respect to hungry predators, not even a powerful weapon. Alligators have also been known to cause our species to disappear and beware of the burmese python, not indigenous but that won't stop them from digesting you.

 

[gaiagirl]

I have been in the environmental field for 15 years and while I haven't personally done research on coyotes in NE(my research has been almost solely on amphibians), some of my acquaintances have. We have known for some time that these animals are NOT the same as the Western coyote, and their wolf DNA is certainly partly why they do pack up, unlike their Western cousins (the other is, of course, the niche left empty by wolves themselves here in New England).

Here is Jonathan Way's website. I met him years ago when he was still at BC doing his research. http://www.easterncoyoteresearch.com/

Peter Trull on Cape Cod is also an old acquaintance from my time at the Museum of Natural History in Brewster. Here's a good article that contains an interview with Peter from the Globe.

http://articles.boston.com/2004-05-23/news/29198871_1_first-coyote-dead-coyotes-peter-trull

They are wild animals, and as such deserve our respect. Would I fear them? NO, absolutely not. I see no reason to fear any wild animals in New England; I have always felt that I have more to fear in humans than anything I might bump into on a hike in the wilderness .....

 

[Andrew]

Great thread topic John.

You absolutely fleshed out some great stories and facts that are very relevant. There have been many past thread about black bear that members have gone on and on about the potential danger and what to carry to do battle. A black bear most often you just need to get out of it's way for your lunch- a coyote will actually consider you for lunch. I think I have even seen bear bells for sale at Pinkham Notch VC, and I have never cosidered carrying spray for black bears- but would consider it for humans or coyote (although I feel no need).

That said, they are incredibly beautiful and necessary part of our ecosystem that I welcome. But I still draw the line at my homestead to protect loved ones and property, and would never want to see a colonial style extirpation that caused us to lose the wolf. Interesting point of another species is that there is some crossbreeding discovered between the canadian lynx and bobcat...

 

[RoySwkr]

it was the first time in my life I felt the instinct of something that had become prey click in.

There is an article in an old Appalachia called "The Guardian of Peabody Mountain" about a guy who thought he was being stalked by a mountain lion when he left the trail. I didn't bushwhack that peak alone. And when I did an evening hike at Big Bend I took my big pack and fluffed a down jacket on top.

 

[DSettahr]

I think in determining whether or not Coyotes pose a threat to humans, it's important to understand how their decision making process works.

In modelling wildlife behavior, wildlife biologists often use something called an "energy budget." Basically, the idea is that animals have a certain amount of stored energy that they must budget, because if it reaches zero, they die. Physical exertion obviously depletes the budget, while eating adds to it.

When it comes to getting food, the coyote is going to consider three things: The amount of energy it would have to expend to obtain that food, the odds of success, and the amount of energy the coyote would receive from the food if it were successful. Obviously, once the energy expenditure gets high enough, and if the odds of success are low enough, the coyote isn't going to bother. And certainly it wouldn't expend more energy stalking and attacking prey than it would get back from consuming that prey. Coyotes (and pretty much all wildlife) know this instinctively, even if it's not a conscious thought on their part. If they didn't, they likely would have gone extinct due to natural selection a long time ago.

Adult humans are notoriously hard to kill without the use of guns/knives/etc. Yes, a coyote possibly could do it, and a pack of coyotes almost certainly would be successful if they tried, but in either case, it'd take so much energy on their part to do so, and the odds of success are slim enough, that it's just not worth it to them to even try.

I can think of a few situations where the coyotes may decide to attack a human. The first is if the human is weaker, such as in the case of a small child or an elderly adult. When we look at the recent history of coyote attacks, it often times does seem that there is a trend of elderly people as the victims.

The second is if something has happened to the coyote that has broken down it's mental decision making process, rendering it incapable of weighing the energy expenditure against the odds of success and the possible gains. Rabies is an excellent example of this, as are other types of disease that can affect the mental processes of coyotes.

The third situation is if the Coyote has placed a greater value on something besides maintaining it's energy budget. A mother protecting her young, or a coyote that has been cornered and feels extremely threatened are both examples of a situation where a coyote may make the decision to attack a human.

I'm sure there are probably a few more situations where a coyote may make the decision to attack, but the point is that even those these situations do exist, they don't occur often enough for us as hikers to waste a lot of time over the possibility of a coyote attack. Certainly, we should be careful and give them as wide a berth as possible if we do encounter them due just in case any of the exceptions I mentioned above apply, but their existence certainly is no reason to stay out of the woods. Yes, they might look at us and fantasize about what it would be like to take a nice, big, juicy bite out of our posterior sections, but, thanks to evolution and natural selection, they've developed a thought process that lets them know better than to even try.

 

[Dave Bear]

Well stated DSettahr and add to that the fact that the energy balance decision becomes more involved when it is a pack and a group decision. Ever been in a group where an individual throws caution to the wind and says "Hey let's try this!"

If you go to a park or zoo where they have caged animals whose natural instincts are still quite obvious. Watch predators that pace the boundary, such as big cats or wolves. If an adult walks by they will glance up at them occasionally but stay focused on the path they are pacing. Now add an adult pushing a baby carriage by the cage. They will still pace but may actually time with the passing carriage. The difference is that now they will totally focus on the baby in the carriage and not because they think its cute! I have seen this with both cats and wolves where they actually salivate while focusing on a baby! They have the desire for what seems feasible but can not accomplish it. The baby is akin to prey they could achieve in the wild and you and the cage are the only things keeping this from being reality to them.

Add any injury to an animal in the wild not just cases of a rabid state of mind and they are also oppurtunistic. This year a lame bear was following people in the area of Whiteface and Passaconaway. His "prey" was very unlikely to be hikers. He was certainly looking for anything that would be dropped or given to him.

It is common knowledge that the coyotes in the Northeast have taken dogs by baiting them away from the owners. This is there way of changing the energy balance to their favor. Since many of us hike with dogs, leashed and unleashed, it is up to us to reduce their oppurtunities so the dogs don't become considered "easy prey" by the pack. For that matter it goes without saying that you would never leave young children unattended! We live in one of the safest regions of the country. There is no good reason for it to lose that status! Happy Trails!

 

[Billy]

...If you go to a park or zoo where they have caged animals whose natural instincts are still quite obvious. Watch predators that pace the boundary, such as big cats or wolves. If an adult walks by they will glance up at them occasionally but stay focused on the path they are pacing. Now add an adult pushing a baby carriage by the cage. They will still pace but may actually time with the passing carriage. The difference is that now they will totally focus on the baby in the carriage and not because they think its cute! I have seen this with both cats and wolves where they actually salivate while focusing on a baby! They have the desire for what seems feasible but can not accomplish it. The baby is akin to prey they could achieve in the wild and you and the cage are the only things keeping this from being reality to them...

Saw this happen (but without the pacing) a few months ago at the zoo. I stood there fiddling with my camera for a few minutes, and this snow leopard never looked at me, never even looked up. Then an easy meal walked by in the form of three kids about age 7. The head popped up and the stare lasted until the kids were out of sight.

 

[sierra]

Good advice but don't forget about mountain lions and that nothing is foolproof with respect to hungry predators, not even a powerful weapon. Alligators have also been known to cause our species to disappear and beware of the burmese python, not indigenous but that won't stop them from digesting you.

I have experience with Lions and you are correct they are something to be aware of, but in my experience they are less of a threat then most would believe. Yes it would not be easy to take one down, but to be honest I consider that to be a remote option, lions like alot of wild animals can be frightened off relatively easy. They do not want to "fight" for a meal in most cases. As far as alligators go, Ill conceed they are a threat, but my travels are strictly high mountains, so I did not include them in my thought process.

 

[Dave Bear]

Here is a note I sent to my mother about the family farm and her response. It will show you some of the reality and also where I get my attitude in the woods from. She was and still is an inspiration on the trail!

"Much debate about the coyotes on the hiking forum. There are folks that just think they are curious and not a problem to have around, loners or packs. Then there are some others that know of and have seen the changes taking place with them. Have you guys ever lost any calves to them? I know they would come for the after birth and have been braver around the cattle. There was an instance in Mass. where they took down a small buffalo. It was said to be 400 pounds so not real big. Still there were people that said "it must have been sick!" Most of the time on things like that we will never know the facts because one side wants to down play anything and see them flourish while the other side wants to sensationalize it all!"

Mom's very honest answer:

"The following should finalize the coyote discussion.
Several years ago, unfortunately before our digital camera, a pack of coydogs attacked a cow right out here by the equipment shed right in the barnyard while she was giving birth. They prefer the afterbirth, so lit right into cow and all to get that and ripped her vagina to pieces before we could get there. Honey, you would have been sick; I cried when I saw what they did to her. She was not sick. Just calving, so helpless because of that. Lots of antibiotics and nursing later she did live, but of course was never the same. Would anything be?
Wishing I could find some photos I had, may have tossed them, totally gruesome; had thought of sending them to Fish & Game but we figured they wouldn't do anything about it. I did find the date under "My Documents", it was April 10 of 2008- we heard them howling in the night & my gosh woke up to find a mid-sized healthy looking dead doe right in the driveway about the same area as the cow attack. Her hind quarters were eaten, some legs missing, never had a chance. We think they chased her here or she may have headed this way on her own because we never bother the deer. Had to move her far away and try to rid the blood scent to protect our herd.
Be sure to tell your hiking friends this next one, it could help. When one of our dogs was small, must have been long ago, I was taking her (without a leash of course) around our fields to show her where things were. Had nothing with me, absolutely zip. On the trail behind the knoll I came face to face with a medium size coydog. This one looked like a deer on dog legs, reddish-gold. It never occurred to me to turn around, might have been a bad idea anyway. I do not fear animals. He knew that. We locked eyes. In that motherly tradition, I was very much afraid for the puppy. All I could think was, "The puppy hasn't had rabies shots," never mind that I hadn't either! So we were in a Mexican standoff and, fearing that the puppy would make a move, I had to break it. Out of the corner of my eye I could see a long dead dry stick to my right. Without unlocking our eyes, bending with my knees only enough to reach it so the dog would not interpret that for submission, I picked up the worthless stick which would have easily broken (but he didn't know that) - and raised it high over my head and held it there. He watched each move and then slowly walked off into the woods beside me. We just continued on our way; I watched him going along on his through the trees.
Point here is, show your superiority. Try not to get into a situation, but accidents & stuff happen, & when they do, the only thing that saves man is intelligence. It didn't matter that the stick was dead, it only mattered that I knew it wouldn't work but he didn't. They can smell fear, if you have it, don't let the panic show. Your friends are good planners & well prepared, good thinkers, too. I believe coydogs are now a serious threat to humans but also that most of you hikers can cope. May not be with guns, may be with whatever is there at hand.
Don't let the true gory stories keep you from a relaxing hike- stress can kill you quicker than the dogs!"

Happy Trails and take her advice about the relaxing!