Crampon comparison

[Tim Seaver]

Kahtoolas

Another option for non-technical ice are the Kahtoola crampons - their newer steel model is much better than the original aluminum version, and the 1" points are just right for hiking over the typical mix of Northeastern snow, ice and rock. I use mine all winter long, and love them!

Review at BackpackerTest

My Screwboot Page

Kahtoola Website

(I just noticed Kahtoola has some freaky new system called a FLIGHTboot that looks pretty interesting too!)

 

[skiguy]

Good in betweener..

As the Mud gets harder and the ice gets deeper....

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10704&highlight=kahtoolas

 

[DougPaul]

For the sake of discussion, let's say at 6'3" 200# I want to complete the winter 48. It sounds like the 10-pointers / non-technical is the way to go. True or false?

Non-technical 10-pointers are quite adequate for this application.

I've read the non-technical ones have horizontal points, and the ice climbing / technical ones have vertical points and/or convert to a mono point to fit the toe point into a nook in the ice.

Vertical front points and monopoints are styles used on technical crampons. Horizontal points can be found on both non-technical and certain styles of technical crampons.

Also FWIW, it appears the mountaineering courses discussed recently (ICMS, EMS, etc.) all spend some time on the French technique(s), unless they mean technique as refers to the ice axe (i.e., piolet canne). I'm guessing if you need an ice axe, you probably need crampons as well.

French technique (also called flat-footing) is a style of crampon techniques which can be very efficient on lower angled ice and hard snow. It may or may not be used in conjuction with an axe.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Another option for non-technical ice are the Kahtoola crampons - their newer steel model is much better than the original aluminum version, and the 1" points are just right for hiking over the typical mix of Northeastern snow, ice and rock.

Aluminum crampons are designed for use on snowfields and will be rapidly destroyed on NE rock and hard ice. Steel works well (but still can be damaged by careless use.)

Doug

 

[Lawn Sale]

The part about "...whose small boots don't require many points..." concerns me, as I wear a 47 (Eur) 12.5/13 US boot, which of course is 1/2 size too big for standard crampons, meaning anything I buy needs an extension bar. At 6'3" and ~200 pounds, this comment concerns me -- will 10 points be enough?

Tim

My older brother wears the same sized boot and his G-14's fit the bill nicely, but he does use them primarily for technical climbing.

The 10 point crampons would be fine in your case, I used to be 245 pounds and they worked well (but I'm glad I'm 185 now ). I have the Petzl Ecrins and they have served me well for hiking and even some technical climbing. One thing about them that I like is the connecting bar can be fixed or hinged based on the type of hiking you're doing, and changed in a moment.

 

[DougPaul]

Doug -

The front points on the Grivel G10's and BD Contact strap do work for moderate angle stuff. Good places to use them would be the Lion's Head winter route, and the 100 yards below the Log Cabin on Lowe's Path. Wouldn't suggest them for vertical ice by any means, but for low/moderate angle alpine stuff they work quite well.

First time I went up the Lions Head winter route, I used K-boots and traditional (non-technical) 10-pointers. Had no need of front points--in fact, I was kicking steps with the corners of my heels because the toes of the boots were too soft.

For most/much low angle alpine stuff, French techique is likely to be more efficient (and doesn't need front points).

(And yes, I am aware that the Lions Head winter trail has changed since I first went up it.)

Doug

 

[Mike P.]

As a 12 point hiker, the main reqason several years ago that I bought them was because they were the only ones that had new-matic bindings (hybrids) so they went on crampon compatible boots or boots with just a back platflorm or norwegien welts. (I was also employed at the time at the established outdoor retailer in the east & did not pay full price)

If I had to buy new ones & with the bindings on the G-10's without the employee discount, I'd probablt but 10's. The 12's do have more bite & more aggressive but the front points stick out more potentially being a tripping hazard if I catch the front points on the back of the other foot.

 

[Mad Townie]

I use WAAYY overkill Charlet Moser M-10s, only because I found them for a really amazing price (well under $100) when LL Bean was getting out of the winter mountaineering line. Same time as I got my plastic boots.

They work great, but I have to be very careful with them sometimes because they're very aggressive. Under normal circumstances I would probably get a much tamer set, which would be fine for the Whites and Katahdin. On the other hand, it's nice to know that the terrain will never overwhelm them!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

First time I went up the Lions Head winter route, I used K-boots and traditional (non-technical) 10-pointers. (And yes, I am aware that the Lions Head winter trail has changed since I first went up it.)

Doug

I had a similar experience - the first time I did Washington in winter route it was also the 'old' route. Was a sunny, cold, windy day (Jan 1st), and I was new to winter hiking. Wore a single thickness, heavy leather boot with 4 point instep crampons. Had the time of my life! - that my feet got so cold they hurt for 3 days didn't detract from the experience. But, never again ...

As I was learning the in's and out's of winter hiking, I bought a pair of 8-point crampons (no front points) on close-out from Climb High. They were a bit tricky if there was much of a grade, but they were made of springy steel, and if the conditions were right were great fun to motor in, because they helped you bounce along. I remember one hike in particular as I was returning from Eisenhower, heading south, and above treeline was mostly hard, sheet ice. Felt like I was on pogo-sticks.

Have also heard reports of people climbing Hood in high heels. Visualizing someone navigating past the Pearly Gates in pumps and beyond is a bit scary. OTH, once when I was doing Mt Adams in Washington as a day hike (translate - a 2AM alpine start) the lower part had melted out and so I wore sneakers starting out. When I hit the neve' it was still dark and I was too lazy to put on my plastics. Much to my surprise my sneaks grabbed the surface surprisingly well up until the grade got a bit steep. Wouldn't recommend climbing on a glacier in the dark in sneaks, but hey, that morning in those temps it worked. Yah never know.

 

[DougPaul]

I use WAAYY overkill Charlet Moser M-10s, only because I found them for a really amazing price (well under $100) when LL Bean was getting out of the winter mountaineering line. Same time as I got my plastic boots.

They work great, but I have to be very careful with them sometimes because they're very aggressive. Under normal circumstances I would probably get a much tamer set, which would be fine for the Whites and Katahdin. On the other hand, it's nice to know that the terrain will never overwhelm them!

Technique is a major factor: some of the masters could climb up to 70 degree ice using French technique (no front points) in good ice conditions.

See "Climbing Ice" by Yvon Choiunard for one of the better how-tos.

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Have also heard reports of people climbing Hood in high heels.

One point crampons?

Doug

 

[Mad Townie]

Technique is a major factor: some of the masters could climb up to 70 degree ice using French technique (no front points) in good ice conditions.

See "Climbing Ice" by Yvon Choiunard for one of the better how-tos.

Doug

Yeah, but despite the shared French heritage, Yvon Chouinard I'm not!!! Same goes for the title of "master."

 

[DougPaul]

Yeah, but despite the shared French heritage, Yvon Chouinard I'm not!!! Same goes for the title of "master."

Me neither, but 30-45 deg isn't that hard. Even I used to be able to do that...

Doug

 

[giggy]

One point crampons?

Doug

I head the same thing - a women was reported to have summited hood with high heel shoes. who knows if its true.... guess its possible. if so -I wouldn't advise it!

"from summit post"
While Mount Hood has reportedly been summited by a woman in high heels, this does not discount the need for climbing experience on this mountain. An ice axe and crampons should be considered mandatory for most climbers, with climbing helmets being a popular addition, especially higher up.*****

you have the classic photo:
http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=117272&context_id=155408

lets see this same spot in more detail:
http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=201833&context_id=155408

and lets see what below this spot:
nice big bergshrund:
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/93754.jpg


my 2 cents is for any of the winter hiking and even mountaineering (I would consider lions head winter route mountaineering as well as washington and the northerns in winter) - 10 points are all ya need.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

and lets see what below this spot:
nice big bergshrund:
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/93754.jpg

That's a good shot.

Don't know what made me think of this, but sometimes bergshrunds upon up in unexpected places. A few years ago there was a small one below Red Banks on Shasta - to the left of the 3rd chimney. You'd have had to go a bit our of your way to fall into it, but still didn't expect to ever see one it that area.

 

[DougPaul]

and lets see what below this spot:
nice big bergshrund:
http://www.summitpost.org/images/original/93754.jpg

Slurp!

my 2 cents is for any of the winter hiking and even mountaineering (I would consider lions head winter route mountaineering as well as washington and the northerns in winter) - 10 points are all ya need.

It has been said that "mountaineering begins at snowline"...

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Don't know what made me think of this, but sometimes bergshrunds upon up in unexpected places. A few years ago there was a small one below Red Banks on Shasta - to the left of the 3rd chimney. You'd have had to go a bit our of your way to fall into it, but still didn't expect to ever see one it that area.

Remember that you don't need a glacier for crevasses (or at least small tension cracks)--any snowfield on a hillside will creep downhill.

I have heard tension release noises in an inch or so of snow over rock on the Keasarge North (hiking) trail. Would have been scarey if it had been a sizable snow slope.

Doug

 

[giggy]

doug - not sure what the technical term is, but last year, I saw some crevasse looking cracks in south and central gully towards the end of the season. they were small (2 feet wide maybe) - but you could see how they were pulling away from the ravine wall. - then there is the one in tucks that opens every year.

I punched though in in south that was at least 15 feet deep. lucky all went well, but the pucker factor was high for a second.

not sure if they are "technically" crevasses, but a hole is a hole

 

[DougPaul]

doug - not sure what the technical term is, but last year, I saw some crevasse looking cracks in south and central gully towards the end of the season. they were small (2 feet wide maybe) - but you could see how they were pulling away from the ravine wall. - then there is the one in tucks that opens every year.

One could view crevasses as big tension cracks...

Only takes one 6in wide to wrench one's leg.

When snow climbing up Great Gully (King Ravine) in the late 70s, there were (filled) tension cracks across the gully. We stood in them and had to surmount the 2 or so foot vertical upper face--perhaps the crux of the climb. A number of years later 2 people were avalanched out of the gully and over the cliff at the bottom. (We saw a good bit of avalanche debris below the headwall when we were there.)

I punched though in in south that was at least 15 feet deep. lucky all went well, but the pucker factor was high for a second.

not sure if they are "technically" crevasses, but a hole is a hole

So far, I've managed to stay out of crevasses/tension cracks. Hope to keep it that way...

Doug

 

[percious]

FYI you don't necessarily have to spend $100 to get a good set of hiking crampons. I got my step-in 10 pointers (2 front points) for $32 on Sierra at the end of the season a couple of years back. I use them on all my non-technical climbs now. I have 3 sets of crampons now!

10 point toe-heel bails
12 point strap on mountaineering crampons
12 point toe-heel for Ice climbing only.

The ice climbing crampons have removable front points, can be set as a mono point, and have replaceable parts. The mountaineering crampons are one forged piece of steel but work well for everything "Central Gully" climbing and lower.

-percious