Crampons and Lafayette for beginners

[grouseking]

It is looking more and more like we could have another nice weekend so I was thinking of doing the Frac Ridge loop....BUT I've never used crampons before. Maybe thats a recipe for disaster, I'm not sure. Is there anything on OBP or Falling Waters that would cause me to not want to attempt the climb or descent? Which is the best way to ascend/descend in icy conditions? I'm goin with a very cautious frame of mind here...if there is even anything that makes me nervous I'm not going to attempt it.

Maybe someone could suggest a diff mtn for a good intro to crampon use if this is easily going to be way over my head.

grouseking

 

[Kevin Rooney]

If you've never used crampons before, this is the not the loop to begin on.

The general wisdom is to ascend Falling Waters because, as the name implies, there's lots of water, and where there's water there's ice. It's usually safer to ascend icy conditions than decend.

Having said that - occasionally the prevailing winds (NW) are strong enough so that the hike is done in the opposite direction so that the wind is more to your back.

 

[Chip]

What was recommended to me, which is what I did, was to go up Old Bridle. This is a nice hike, not bad at all. When you get to the hut you can see the summit of Lafayette. If you're feeling good, head up to the summit. If you're uncomfortable or tired at the summit, head back down OBP. If it's a nice day and you've still got good energy you make the decision to head south. The ridge hike is FANATASTIC, beautiful, awesome. I rushed on Presidents Day but I won't next time. Hiking down Falling Waters can get icey, frozen falls and such, just go slow and steady and then you're back to your car !

 

[NH_Mtn_Hiker]

For an beginner crampon hike, I'd recommend another hike.

Fallings Water, as Kevin said, has lots of water ice,(very hard ice) and it can be slippery even with crampons. The OBP has one steep ledgy section just below Agony Ridge that has been the scene of "incidents" in the past. When I was there about a month ago the group ahead of us was "roping up" to climb the ledge.

Many of the 4,000 footers have icy trails right now due to the warm afternoon temps last week. For an easy crampon hike, I'd pick a trail that has a smooth grade without any ledges or bouldery sections...like the Glencliff Trail on Moosilaike for example. It has smooth, easy to moderate grades until the last .3mi. or so, where it is steeper just before reaching the Carriage Road. It's well travelled and usually in great condition as far as trails go. The Glencliff Trail almost always has some icy sections in Winter, but they shouldn't be difficult with crampons.

Trail Conditions for Glencliff Trail

I'm sure there are many other trails that would offer a similar easy introduction to cramponing, but I don't think OBP or Falling Waters are among them. That's just my opinion though.

 

[jn316]

This is a tough time to learn crampon use. Most winters in the Whites offer good cramponing on hard-packed snow on trails or firm, frozen, windblown snow above treeline. This year many trails are ribbons of very hard water ice, often with rocks thrown in, just to trip on. The Franconia ridge has a lot of ice and rocks, not ideal territory for learning crampon use. It seems that an accident there last weekend may have been the result of a crampon mishap. The Lafayette Lincoln Little Haystack loop is probably not a good beginner choice now.
If it's cold this weekend, a great way to learn crampon use is to walk up a ski trail at a closed ski area. And you usually get good views all the way up and down.

 

[grouseking]

Ok, thanks for everything. So that means Hancock is way too steep to even think about?? I thought about it only because it may have more snow than the exposed F Ridge, but is steep.

grouseking

 

[Lovetohike]

Personally, I'd opt for a hike in the Northern Presis for a first time crampon hike. Given this winter's conditions, there will be lots of pretty icy trails to practice on, but without some of the intensity of some sections of Falling Waters or Old Bridle Path. If you were considering the Franconia ridge, I will assume you are prepared to handle some significant elevation. So, One option would be to start in Appalachia on Rte. 2, head up Valley Way to the Scar trail up to Airline along the Durand Ridge. From here you can have some great views into King Ravine and either head back on Air Line, or venture on towards Adams or Madison if conditions are o.k. Or, starting in the same place, head up the Amphibrach to the Spur trail and go to Crag Camp. Fabulous views from the other side of King Ravine, and, similar option of pushing on above treeline towards Adams and Madison. Last week, Randolph Mt. Club conditions for Gray Know (near Crag Camp) called for crampons due to light snow over ice on many trails. Both these trips will give you lots of good crampon practice, good views, and easily reversible options to push into more challenging above treeline terrain if your o.k. with it. This is the area where I learned to winter hike and I haven't regretted it.

Goo luck!

 

[Kevin Rooney]

So that means Hancock is way too steep to even think about?? grouseking

In a word - Yes!

I liked NH_Mtn_Hiker's suggestion of the Glencliff trail (it's one of my personal favorites anyway). Another trail with even grades (except for last .2 mile near the very summit) is Garfield. Also - Waumbek.

 

[Woody]

I would agree with the Garfield suggestion for learning to walk with crampons on. It is fairly gradual and except for the very top of the trail, if you catch a crampon point on your pants (you will) and fall, you won't fall too far.

 

[Oldmanwinter]

Another suggestion would be the Crawford path to Pierce, moderate climb with hard packed snow over some ice until the ridge (easy crampon hike). From the ridge to the summit is mostly ice and rock but is short.
OMW
(Winter is over, how sad)

 

[giggy]

I am going to be the devils advocate here - assuming you are a skilled hiker that has the gas to do a 4k ele day - I think the OBP is a good begineer winter hike - to practice crampons with - put them on down low -this way you have a good mile or so (maybe less this year!) to kind of practice your steps, and get in your groove.

I am assuming you have winter/backpaking skills - just not crampon skills. no need for an axe on this trail - poles are fine.

1) packed trail - with nice not too steep ice up high
2) very little exposure to hut
3) I can't think of any place below the hut that a fall would have seroius consequenses. (even on falling waters)
4) on a weekend - very good chance of lots of people around - just in case.

like chip said - you gage how you feel at the hut and decide what to do there. its about a mile to the summit from the hut - again easy terrain IMO.

I am in the minority here - but I don't hink falling waters is that tough at all - I can only think of one section that you have to do some minor (very very minor scrambling to pull yourself up and if you fell (unlikely) you won't go very far.

 

[Chip]

When I was there about a month ago the group ahead of us was "roping up" to climb the ledge.

Maybe conditions were perfect when I was there. I can't imagine needing to be roped for any of that, unless visibility was low or someone was afraid of the heights. There wasn't anything going up OBP that I would consider a climb or a scramble. I don't know. I thought it was a nice hike. There certainly is a lot of ice sections on Falling Waters, but there are trees and rocks to grab onto. Coming down Falling Waters there were a number of different groups going up, including an older couple, a guy with his dog and two couples in MSR's. They all had big smiles on their faces. No ropes or ice axes.

 

[giggy]

roping up???? Unless the were practicing or training techniques - there is no reason to do this at all. I have done this loop many many times in snow/ice and even when I was a bare boned beginner that never even crossed my mind - FWIW - this was one of my first winter hikes wayyyyyyyyyy back when - ok like 1999 - but you get my drift.

 

[Jazzbo]

Another good trail for beginning crampon user might be Webster Jackson Loop. It's well traveled and close to Highland Ctr, but might only have thick enough crust on upper half. You get a nice gander at Washington for your efforts. Many of the 4000' only have deep enough snow base to use crampons on the upper sections. Bare boot or stablicers will suffice on lower trails.

 

[Mike P.]

I'll disagree with Giggy, falling on the Miseries could be tough.

I'd recommend Garfield or Pierce, most people at least once in their lives make two crampon mistakes.

1.) they catch a pant leg or gaitor, if minor, you just rip your pants or gaitor, if you catch it good, you likely fall forward "face planting" if going up hill no big deal, downhill at the wrong time & wrong spot on trail, you keep going

2.) not being used to points at the front of your boot, you catch the front point of one crampon on the back of the other, result, face plant, see above for when it's just comical to your friends & when it can be dangerous.

(My wife did this on the White Arrow several years ago bounding down the ice near treeline - as it is on Monadnock - about 10-15 feet. Had she been leading or missed hitting me she would have continue another 20-30 feet & likely doing more damage than some black & blues & straining knee ligaments. She missed skiing the rest of the year. This was 12/30 so the whole season basically. She's still mad at me for that. )

 

[grouseking]

Thank you for the replies. I'm always a guy who sets a high goal, and settles. But I don't think settling for Mt Liberty is too bad of an option . We're going to try that trail and see how it is. If not, turning back is easy and there is always artists bluff.

grouseking

 

[giggy]

I'll disagree with Giggy, falling on the Miseries could be tough.

I'd recommend Garfield or Pierce, most people at least once in their lives make two crampon mistakes.

1.) they catch a pant leg or gaitor, if minor, you just rip your pants or gaitor, if you catch it good, you likely fall forward "face planting" if going up hill no big deal, downhill at the wrong time & wrong spot on trail, you keep going

2.) not being used to points at the front of your boot, you catch the front point of one crampon on the back of the other, result, face plant, see above for when it's just comical to your friends & when it can be dangerous.

(My wife did this on the White Arrow several years ago bounding down the ice near treeline - as it is on Monadnock - about 10-15 feet. Had she been leading or missed hitting me she would have continue another 20-30 feet & likely doing more damage than some black & blues & straining knee ligaments. She missed skiing the rest of the year. This was 12/30 so the whole season basically. She's still mad at me for that. )

good points mike. I will agree with the fall on the agonies - but I also think the chance for a fall is very very small. But point well taken.

liberty is pretty easy and should be nice an iced up - though I have not been on that trail this winter -

 

[grouseking]

What about the Skoocumchuck trail for ascent and descent off Lafayette? Although somewhat long, it sounds like a moderate hike till treeline, then of course all bets are off.

And what about taking the entire Greenleaf trail to the summit? I read the description...it sounded kind of rocky, but not as steep as lets say the Old Bridle Path. Any suggestions with that?

 

[DougPaul]

What about the Skoocumchuck trail for ascent and descent off Lafayette? Although somewhat long, it sounds like a moderate hike till treeline, then of course all bets are off.

And what about taking the entire Greenleaf trail to the summit? I read the description...it sounded kind of rocky, but not as steep as lets say the Old Bridle Path. Any suggestions with that?

Greenleaf is less likely to be broken out than the Bridle Path. IIRC, there is a steep section between Eagle Pass and the hut.

Doug

 

[sierra]

I think the OBP would be a great hike as is Liberty, I also agree falling waters is not a good beginner trail for first time crampon users espechally on descent. Pierce would be the best omo, easy grades up and down and you get to stick you head above treeline for a minute.