crampons or snowshoes

[Adk_dib]

I have never done winter high peak, that is why I am starting with cascade.
Do I need snowshoes till I get to the summit, or is it acceptable to put my crampons on at the trailhead and use them the whole way? Don't want to break trail etiquette.

 

[vtlukekultv]

the only time you SHOULD wear snowshoes is when the trail hasn't been well broken. definitely don't posthole up a mountain if no one has gone up it yet, because this can make it very hard, and potentially dangerous for anyone following you in snowshoes. if a few people have already hiked up (or slid down) i would feel free to wear whatever i want on my feet. i generally like to snowshoe, even on most well broken trails, but that's just a matter of preference. do whatever's comfortable for you.

luke

 

[Sherpa John]

If the trail has been broken out and well packed, or if in fact frozen in places, I'll start out in crampons. If the possibility exists for postholeing (falling through snow up to your knees) I strap on the snowshoes. Its really a matter of preference and how hard you desire to work.

 

[Panama Jack]

keep in mind however,

That Sherpa John has all that extra weight in his pack, (hats) so he postholes before anyone!

Given the snow we've had I'd say snowshoes with some teeth are a good bet. I always bring both (not that I've gotten out much this year), that way I don't get any surprises.

Enjoy your hike!

 

[giggy]

never heard of anyone getting hurt snowshoeing over postholes - I don't wear them unless I have to - sinking 6 inches or less - not even thinking of wearing them

 

[Rugger]

Giggy,

I slightly sprained my ankle about a month ago sliding into a post hole on the way down using MSR's.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

..... I am starting with cascade......
Do I need snowshoes........ Don't want to break trail etiquette.

If you're talking about Cascade in the Adirondacks, you're not talking about etiquette, you're talking about the law. Snowshoes required when more than 8" of snow, no matter how packed the snow is.

 

[DougPaul]

never heard of anyone getting hurt snowshoeing over postholes - I don't wear them unless I have to - sinking 6 inches or less - not even thinking of wearing them

Postholes can break skis--the tip can drop down into the hole (particularly if there are 2 connected postholes), and bury itself in the wall. The skier then goes flying head first and torques the ski tip.

I've certainly caught a tip in postholes, fortunately no broken ski tips (yet).


Most trails are shared--it is irresponsible (to the other users) to unnecessarily damage them.

Doug

 

[woodstrider]

Snowshoes and crampon use

Well, Giggy- I have strained my knees, ankles and neck when my showshoes traction devise caught on the ( sometimes hidden by fresh snow) edges of post holes. It make the trail very uneven and therefore causes strain and drain. Postholing is bad trail manners, and only the selfish, unprepared and amatur will do this. But in the winter I figure that sooner or later they will take themslves out of the game. Can you tell I hate postholers.

As to the original question, it just depends on the conditions. Soft snow (I like about a foot or more in the season's beginning, to protect my gear) and generally on any snow covered trail. The snowshoes will provide traction and I feel that in th elong run save energy. Use the smallest size you can get away with, unless you are backpacking in Minnesota in the winter. Generally, I use grampons on any icy trail, or when the snow is the consistancy of sytrofoam.

Cheers

 

[JohnL]

I'm with woodstrider on this one.

With the smaller snowshoes that are out there now, post holes can be a major problem on a trail. Creating post holes is just bad form. I cannot think of a good excuse to be popping six inch post holes along the length of a trail.

I went into Carrigain on Sunday where a group of 13 people had broken the trail the day before, there were 3 people ahead of us that morning and the trail was far from consolidated. It would have been post hole city if we had not worn snowshoes. Just because a trail is well broken, does not mean it is consolidated and hard enough to bare boot.

Because there are people who think that it is okay to bare boot in unconsolidated conditions, I wear my snowshoes a lot. They are safer because they create a larger and more stable base for my feet. I can glissade down the steep snow slopes and I can cruise down the open trails in snowshoes. Snowshoes are much more forgiving on my knees and ankles than are crampons, which I rarely use below treeline.

I like the quote I heard/read somewhere which went something like: “If you’re not going to take the snowshoes off your back and wear them when you should, maybe you shouldn’t be winter hiking.”

JohnL

 

[WalksWithBlackflies]

Wear snowshoes, change into crampons when icy conditions dictate. Last December, I had the displeasure of following a barebooter's footprints all the way to the summit of Colvin. The temps the day before were in the 40s, and every footstep this jerk took froze solid overnight. Twisted my ankle about 20 times, and it was a real thrill going up steep inclines with my snowshoe crampons gripping nothing but air.

 

[giggy]

well - I guess I am irresponsible, selfish, and have bad manners and probably shouldn't be winter hiking and most likely will take myself out of the game soon by getting hurt.

I will have to make sure I outrun the snowshoe police

 

[giggy]

nice - an ally!! I didn't want to mention that - but like I said - never heard of anyone getting hurt prior to today. I also have snowshoed over postholes-

These darn snowshoers are ruining my crampon paths.

on a serious note, wear what you want and what you feel safe in.

 

[CaptainJim]

As long as I'm not sinking in it...

I wear my crampons any time the snow's hard enough (or of course on ice). I hate barebooting (even on hard snow)... seems like I go 2 steps foward and one back... use a lot more energy. It just seems like I get such better purchase with them. Now that I got MSR Denali's I may start using snowshoes a lot more often and waiting to don the crampons till I hit ice or more elevation... we'll see!

Capt. Jim

 

[vtlukekultv]

giggy-

nice - an ally!! I didn't want to mention that - but like I said - never heard of anyone getting hurt prior to today. I also have snowshoed over postholes-

These darn snowshoers are ruining my crampon paths.

on a serious note, wear what you want and what you feel safe in.

though i assume you're kidding when you say this, i hope you're aware of just how treacherous it can be to snowshoe over deep holes, especially this time of year when they get soft in the day, and freeze at night. i don't want to start a war here, but like most other people have been saying, it's bad form. there was one time when i had to follow 1 ft+ deep postholes up a steep pitch for better than half a mile, and by the time i was at the top i was exhausted. i didn't know about the problems concerning postholes and skis, which seems logical, but it is INCREDIBLY easy to roll an ankle into a deep hole that you're trying to flatten out for the people behind you. if you don't center your snowshoe over a postholes just right, one side of the snowshoe will fall in, creating tons of stress on your ankles. i'm not blaming you for hurting anyone, but please be aware that postholes are a huge difficulty to go around, especially when they go right up the middle of a trail. if you want to posthole, please just stick to one side or the other of the trail. thanks.

luke

 

[Oldsmores]

...on a serious note, wear what you want and what you feel safe in.

Everybody should re-read the original question and Pete's response.

I am starting with cascade.
Do I need snowshoes till I get to the summit, or is it acceptable to put my crampons on at the trailhead and use them the whole way?

If you're talking about Cascade in the Adirondacks, you're not talking about etiquette, you're talking about the law. Snowshoes required when more than 8" of snow, no matter how packed the snow is.

For better or worse, the High Peaks management area is highly regulated, and DEC has been known to issue citations. Now THAT would ruin your first winter peak...

 

[Adk_dib]

snowshoes it is then. another question. when do you need to change over to crampons, only if its icy? why couldn't I bring my crampons just in case, and if i dont need them just leave my snowshoes on? the teeth on the bottom of my snow shoes should be ok. I've seen many pictures of people on summits with their snow shoes still on.

"happy St. Patricks day"! the yellow lab in my avatar is called "Bailey". I named her after Baileys Irish Cream. I think I'll have one (or more) tonight.

 

[Mark]

well - I guess I am irresponsible, selfish, and have bad manners and probably shouldn't be winter hiking and most likely will take myself out of the game soon by getting hurt.

Unfortunately, it's more likely that the person hiking the trail the next day over your frozen postholes will be the one who gets hurt, not you.

Just because I don't strap on snowshoes like every other winter hiker doesn't make me a selfish person. And there have been many times when I've snowshoed over postholes - if you are seriously getting hurt by these, either you're not paying attention, or...

Try hiking after a fresh snow has bridged over all your frozen postholes. You can't see them even if you are paying attention. It's like walking on a mine field. If you ruin the trail for those who follow you, you are acting selfishly.

Please, if you are postholing, put on snow shoes.

 

[giggy]

Let me clarify - just a bit - I am not post-holing unbroken foot deep powder -

I bring them on many trips - unless I really know they not needed. I use them when needed - and not a second more.

I just tend to see people in the whites wearing them - when not needed - which is fine - to each their own - who cares.

I mean come on - 90% of the time - they are not needed on tucks below hermit lake - In fact - I have never seen the need for them there - but I left. the 10% open becuase someone will promptly correct me - saying they went one time 20 years ago - one hour after a blizzard - when they were needed.

 

[Sherpa John]

Again... as far as I go... If there is a hard pack and snowshoes are not needed for the sake of falling in (postholing), then I strap crampons on for better traction on the hard packed snow.

The question asked is truly a matter of opinion of comfort levels on a case by case study..if you will. Sometimes I wear the crampons and bring the snowshoes just in case. Sometimes I bring the snowshoes and wear the crampons just in case. It all depends on whats McGoin on .

GREAT EXAMPLE: This past saturday I thought that Sawyer River Rd was packed from Snowmobilers, so I had my crampons on and ready to march up SRR no problem with the added traction on the pack my snowshoes wouldn't give. Then Bob Kitteridge mentioned how interesting my technique was on a road that wasn;t packed with over a foot of fresh snow. Bob (bob and Geri) got his chuckle in so I switched out to snowshoes. I wore the snowshoes all day! Matter of preference... almost